European Union (UE) is it a good thing?
 

European Union (UE). Is it a good thing? I'm wondering if the EU will turn out to be a good thing or just another non authoritive, corrupt, waste of taxpayor money like the United Nations?

Its an expensove money grabbing idea for Euro MP's to steal money from tax payers, For 14 years they havn't been able to balance the books due to the fraud thats been going on.

Serves No Perpose what so ever in my eyes

It's hugely increased and expedited trade within the EU; it's also played a huge role in making policies more consistant between its member countries, and it has successfully helped less developed EU nations to develop much faster.

It is often forgotten today how Britain begged to be allowed into the EU, and was rejected formally twice by de Gaulle; the trade advantages of being inside the EU are pretty damn big, and beat being outside of it hollow.

serves the purpose for which it was really created, but doesn't do anything Good for anyone

It doesn't even make the newspapers any more: that's the shocking thing. We are so blas? about Brussels fraud that we no longer notice it. Yesterday, for the 14 years in a row, the European Court of Auditors refused to approve the EU's accounts.

Its 324-page report was couched in the bland language favoured by accountants everywhere, but its import was unmistakable. Chunks of the EU's ?70 billion budget are being lost and stolen. The report identifies fraudulent claims, bogus invoices and other accounting failures. While the auditors are happy to vouch for the money raised by the EU, they cannot say where it goes.

Indeed, one of the main complaints of the former chief accountant, Marta Andreasen, was the absence of double-entry book-keeping. Many accounts, she found, were held on spreadsheets, allowing them to be retrospectively doctored. When she went public, she was suspended and then, in a final vindictive act by the outgoing Commission, fired.

What makes the EU behave like this? Its employees are not inherently wickeder than anyone else. All organisations have their share of shysters. The difference is that there is no link in Brussels between taxation, representation and expenditure. The EU expects bouquets when it spends, but not brickbats when it taxes, because its revenue is handed over by national treasuries.

As Milton Friedman once observed, there are only two kinds of money: your money and my money. The trouble is that, in Brussels, it's all your money. This creates an attitude to expenditure that is at best negligent, at worst corrupt.

The National Audit Office found that Britain's net cash contribution to Brussels jumped by 40 per cent to more than ?4billion between 2006 and 2007.

In the same year, the total value of reported irregularities rose by 20 per cent to €1,392 million (?1.3billion) across all European Union countries, a report published finds.

The average Medium to large business, gains nothing at all by being in the EU, In my eyes it does nothing for trade, except cost the UK Taxpayers Billions each year.

The EU does a roaring trade with other countries not in the EU, Its not as if britain is not self sufficent?

So How did we join??

Soon we're going to get the worlds biggist Lair as president, Tony Blair and that repulsive wife of his, god help us :eek:

source: http://www.vernoncoleman.com/howthebritishmedia.htm

I can't even complain more about the EU. I agree with basically everything UKlive said and more. 75% of our laws coming from Brussels and it's a wonder why (speaking of britain) has gone to the dogs.

Like I said, it was a case where I wanted the conservative party to be elected because they were always against oining the EU. Tony blairs (labour party) mistake was folding to Brussels demands in joining.

I'll say what I said about 10 months ago, the economic good times are over we lived through them.

The only countries the EU benefit are these countries that had no economic growth from the start which are a step up from these 3rd world countries. How could the likes of Romania and their neighbouring countries be accepted I'll never know because it damaged Britain greatly.

I cannot walk into a shop or make a phone call to services without being on the phone to a foreign person who I cannot understand. Because they work for cheap labour, it's stops jobs that were created meant to be for the countries residents to begin with.

War veteran - Injured during the fighting in Iraq, Afghan, forget any kind of compensation You'll be screwed, we'll give immigrants the great benefits but if you fought for your country you are screwed to compensate for these bums entering. And when they do enter, they are protesting and throwing objects, jeering at our soldiers. Pffft. Ridiculous.

Edit: The UN however, Are/where put there for a reason. Do we wan't another country invading another European country? Look what happened in world war 2. Bosnia. At least, that is serving a purpose. Soldiers are their to protect it's the guys who pull the strings in government that have their personal agenda that are the scums of the earth.

Well if britain begged to be allowed to be in the EU then that is just sad.
Goes to show what spineless w******* are running this country.
We should pull out of the EU as it serves no useful purpose and as for letting undeveloped countries develop faster,do we really care,because all its doing is allowing mass migration to other developed countries.
France should bow before the feet of Brtiain what with the amount of times we have saved their hide.

Well, you know, Great Britain could imitate Genghis Khan and go on a long warpath instead, but it would probably run out of squaddies and ponies quickly. Warpath is tough on the ponies.

End all trade now! Ban all foreign bananas!

Actually it does almost the exact reverse by developing countries and thusly persuading their citizens to stay there. But let's not allow facts disturb this all.

France should bow, scrape, tug its forelock and say, "Yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir", eh?

Life is such a never-ending source of marvels and wonders, and always good for something new along Life's Little Highway To Karakorum.

Ah, the infamous, multi quote witty response.

The org still has it's charm. :D

With added facts, too! Reality is such a wonderful thing, I feel we all should embrace it. :)

Must we embrace your Reality? maybe everyone else see's a different one ;)

I don't mind, as long as you actually try dealing with the facts as they are. I'm not seeing a lot of facts in the ongoing denunciations of the EU; just emo. A hell of a lot of British businesses would be very glad if Britain would join in the common euro, for example; and leaving the EU completely would spell the end for many British businesses and create a good deal of new unemployment.

The reason for existence of the EU is unfettered trade; and it's extended over into common standards and policies, and thus helps its member countries enjoy the oppotunities of scale.

This is not just "my" reality; it happens to be economic facts of life. I'm sure there are doubtlessly reasons for being unhappy with the EU; but so far I am not seeing any good factual basis for being so.

Trade at the cost of freedom? not worth it my friend' we're giving up freedoms and rights all to the EU way of doing things.

*sigh*

Exactly what freedoms and rights have you given up to join the EU? Let's discuss that. Just wondering. If no-one minds if we do real facts, of course.

Reality is pointed out in this thread. I can only speak for the circumstances in Britain but reality and facts are pointed and conveyed across. You ask any briton, and most will say the EU was a mistake to enter into. some won't even know what your going on about but they feel how Britain joining the EU has impacted their lives and suffering for it.

If countries that are accepted into the EU is helping there country then this has backfired. The less developed European countries are the same. All that is happened is mass migration to the more developed European countries (Britain, France, Germany).

Foreign workers accepted in hospitals who cannot speak english, NHS abused and more overcrowded. Why should any immigrant enjoy the luxuries of what our country has to offer (and abusing them) when our own cannot enjoy this. They enter the country with open arms by the government and get everything handed on a silver platter and their arse wiped at the same time.

All I can say is, and can only speak of the UK. The people built and worked hard for what they have and now they are loseing it on a daily basis and these immigrants come flooding in and getting handouts on a whim because law says they have something to offer when infact they spent the last 50 years fighting, raping killing people because their countries were in poverty and war ridden for the best part of the last century.

You cannot help people who cannot help themselves.

Odd how that most British businesses would not agree with you. Moreover, it may well surprise you, but I do know personally a good many Britons. And a lot of those I know wouldn't agree either, so I really can't see that "most Britons" would see it as a mistake.


One thing that is extremely odd is how the Biritish government, both in conservative govts (Thatcher, Major) and Labour (Blair, Brown) have actually supported radical extension of the EU to the rather poor Eastern European countries, often against French and German opposition.

Another odd affair is how Ireland massively benefited from EU membership, economically and socially.

Nothing in the EU regulations to say foreigners who cannot speak English should be accepted as workers into hospitals.

Of course, that has much more to do with the disgusting low pay for health workers in Britain, and the consequent lack of Britons wanting to do health-care jobs, and Britain actively and officially advertising in other countries for health-care workers.

So if you really want to do anything at all real about that particular problem, you should agitate for better rate of pay and conditions for health-care workers in Britain. You should then find that the problem cures itself.

What is certa?n is that the EU has nothing to do with that particular problem.

Yeah? Goodness. Of course, this leaves out a lot of facts, but hey.

You might like to speak with British contract building-site laborers in Berlin; British brickies tend to be rather glad of the rights and free movement that the EU gives them. You might also like to talk with the large British colony in Spain. Just to get a balanced point of viw and so on.

There was a lot of stupid crap they did and even though I am not happy saying this but I must admit that generally it works pretty well.

If the UK was not in The EU, I can't see it not trading with EU countries??

Americia is not in the EU and we sell alot of Americian Beers here, Costa rica, where nearly all of our bannas come from is not in the EU, So i doubt that the EU can tell its member states don't trade with the UK because its not in the UK, If it did it would be a dicatorship and not promoting free trade.

Alot of our UK laws now come from Brussels, These laws are letting imigration get out of control with people citing the "Human Rights Act"

The Human Rights Act is one of Labours biggist mistakes, Here in the UK we have a system of legal Aid in which the Goverment helps out with legal fees for those that cannot afford a Lawyer or Solicitor (Attorny) Now with the Human rights act, legal aid has now costing the UK Taxpayer over 22.5 million GBP

With cases such as rapist amd Murders using the Human rights act to get out of prision early etc..

Blair only agreed to this as his wife is a Human Rights lawyer who was set to make ?????, if it became law, So far, it help Murders, rapist and terrorists escape justice. Did you know the UK has one of the Highest populations of terrorist, wanted by other countries but allowed to Stay in the UK because of the Human rights???

I'm not at all keen to let my country be a safe haven for the worlds worst terrorist, who if not in jail are living on benefits and housing provided by the UK taxpayer.

Gordon Brown for Years kept begging Tony Blair to let him be Prime Minister and one of his Promises was that we would have a Vote on whether we the UK taxpayer will want to Join the EU, and Lose all soverignty and our money.

If I had the Choise of Chosing The Queen, Our Currancy, and Our Indepenance against a corupt EU, Their failing Euro, and That lying prat Blair, I'd know where my vote would be :)

Tim Skellett- I appreciate your enthusiam but one thing you've failed to convey in terms of "British Business" is how many of these businessed are owned by actual British citizens-born and raised by people who have long British ancestry? Not many in the big cities, maybe in the smaller towns and villages but that is waining as well. So who are theese "British Businesses" usually benefiting???> foreigners living in England and their families abroad. So how does the EU help the average Brit? The argument of these businesses bringing much economic growth to England through the EU is flawed-just look at their economy now.

Yup he fails to enclose the full statistics but let's not stop there. How many are flourishing with non speaking foreign people who cannot barely speak and understand english. It's futile manipulating statistics with me it simply won't work. Many buisnesses are takeovers by immigrants whom just entered the country, yet the countries are near to ruin. Odd indeed. Let's carry on, large corps outsourcing work to immigrants working for a lower wage are these the businesses that you are saying are flourishing?

Very odd indeed. We like to paint a picture but if we do decide to paint a picture let's paint the bigger picture tim and then, just maybe it may not seem odd at all but more informative about the facts you are aiming to accumulate.

British Migrants in spain are moving there to purchase houses they have worked hard for. You cannot compare the eu immigrants who have come here with nothing and getting everything from the government. The british in spain you cannot compare as they do not get the handouts and luxuries you are speaking of. Let's keep it so people see the big picture tim.

Anything that happened to ireland being benefited socially would have been an improvement. I doubt that the fighting for the last 30 years in ireland and it coming to an end had anything to do with that? :D

The english army pulling out improved the social status of ireland and feuding parties compromising not joining the eu.

I could go on but the portrait of manipulation your painting is not worth it unless you start thinking da vinci. :rolleyes:

Shelley, I'll be dammed if you don't stand as an MP so i can Vote for you :D

We may laugh and joke about the whole system in the UK here, But in all seriousness the Brits are getting mega pee'd off with working like donkneys and all our taxes squandard by those that have not contributed anything. :mad:

In the UK we have a new Citizenship test, for imigrants wanting to settle down in the UK and gain British Citizenship and a Free British Passport, Mugs like me, who work and pay taxes have to pay ?77, and have a day off work (?120 loss) to go for a bleeding interview to prove i am who i am, and i was born here lol :eek:

Its cool with me, people want Free citizenship, Yeah fine, but they need to Sign up to the Army as they are understaffed and Fight for their new Country, in afganistan and Iraq. I wonder how many people will be on the first flight out, Solving all our Imigration problems in one hit!!!

EU, No thanks, We survived as an independent nation for hundreds of years why break the habit of a lifetime.

If Shelley Doesn't sign up as an MP, then perhaps i might do !!!

That is not an explanation. I do get tired of explaining how the laws of the EU are made.
Basically, the European Parliament is at the center - the guy you elected to represent you.
They decide

oh dear!
We (the conservatives) took you into Europe, we signed the Single European Act, and the Maastricht treaty.

I cannot walk into a shop or make a phone call to services without being on the phone to a foreign person who I cannot understand. Because they work for cheap labour, it's stops jobs that were created meant to be for the countries residents to begin with. [/QUOTE]

This basically a nationalistic rant. You dislike 'foreign' people who go abroad and you don't understand them. You clearly haven't seen the British in Spain and Portugal!

Jobs are available to anyone who can do it. End of. If certain groups of people (more statements backed up by nothing) are more economic to employ then that is how business flows.

Rubbish. There is no indication that EU members have thrown objects at a soldier :confused: ... this is ridiculous. You quite simply dislike foreign people and will blame the EU.
You forget that the UK, Ireland and other European countries were once the bums that relied on the US!

What does this have to do with the thread!
I take it you hate the UN for letting in those horrible scum immigrants who want to improve their lives! I have to admit, this does have a hint of BNPness, as opposed to conservative views.

.....

Right, now that I elliminated a good few "The Sun" based arguments against EU membership, it is in interesting to note the arguments for the EU. I am sure we have all heard the "its a globalised world, we need to be in a group", afterall the EU is the biggets economy now. There are hidden benefits. I am an EU law student, so I'll name a few:

1) The prevention of indirect trade barriers.
2) The enforcement of free-trade against governments and the free movement of businesses and workers.
3) A way in which businesses invest in the UK to get inside the EU area, because once you produce in the EU you can export anywhere in it without paying a tariff. We couldn't achieve this outside the EU, because countries would pick and choose the goods on which they have tariffs, fragmenting the market.
4) Getting rid of out-of-date and unjustifiable laws. Such as the privacy laws in the UK.

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Although I don't post a lot on this site, I do find you amusing and interesting here but these views are rather disappointing. It is imperative that everyone is given a fair trial with an advocate (if appropriate) provided. Innocent until proven guilty, after all! That is one of the many traits of this legal system that make me truly proud. The Human Rights Act is the only legislation where UK citizens' are enforced by the courts pro-actively - where the judges had the power to condemn an Act as 'incompatible' if it breaches our rights. This has nothing to do with Blair (or such youtube conspiracies) but with empowering ordinary citizens.

We already lost our sovereignty the day we joined the EU, the referendum you speak of isn't going to change anything at the end of the day. Also, you say we lost sovereignty but the reality we all have a say in the future of Europe. You vote in MEPs who in turn sit in the European Parliament. Here the EP consults all the other bodies with regards to legislation, so in effect nothing can happen without the consent of Parliament (the people we elect!). So unless you have anything more than the usual moan about banana legislation (which interestingly shows a lack of understanding of why the EU even exists), then we do in fact have our sovereignty.

I have yet to see how the EU, as a whole, is corrupt. That is a rather substantial allegation to make!

It's all a big conspiracy!

either that or extremely predictable :D
Bible (yes outdated relic of a book to some of you) predicted its arrival near 2000 years ago.

Predicting a revived Roman empire, while Rome was still alive and Kicking

I don't see a need for the EU, we don't need a bunch of Liberals from france, germany and the "suck up to Islam incase we offend some ethic group" EU countries to make our laws.

I have nothing against anyone due to their color of their skin, i have friends of all colours, Culture and religion?, heck yes they live in our country they live by our culture

Someone needs to go back and read their books. Your responses are poor and need re-written possibility re-evaluated. Was this from a prediction survey? I'm not a racist I have plenty of non english friends I associate myself with whom are hardworking people who didn't abuse the system although this is one of the golden rules immigrants do exploit in the British system and manchester is seeing a vast increase in immigrants lately. I'll scream racism, I'll exploit a loophole and get my voice heard and increase the debt and limit the resources on silly matters where it would have benefited someone who greatly needed it.

I'm not even going to quote any of your other responses because that would entail me to venture to other sources and prove to you when obviously your not really living in the real world. All I can say is bury your head back in your books and even try to venture out. you cannot see any exploits from joining the eu? and/or people suddenly flocking here since their country got accepted? hmm I can see a little biased here and an element of narrow mindness and choosing to ignore the facts

I brought up the UN because the thread starter brought it up in the first post.

Your quite amusing though if not damaging to the economy. I'm sure we will debate more thoroughly throughout the day but let me wake up first. :rolleyes:

You just confirmed what everyone already knew - the conservatives are t******,but so are labour and the Libs - all out for yourself.

A heated debate is no problem as long as it stays civilised and not result in personal attacks.

Please keep this in mind.

I can't remember but was the EU voted in by the people or did the government decide on their own?

well i never got a vote.They would`nt ask the people anything because they know we would`nt approve it.

Oh I see, so because I am an academic, I am going to get the "go-back-to-your-books" remark, which lives up to the stereotype that academics live in books and have no world interaction. How childish!
I do like the bit in bold ~ not only did you not present any supposed 'facts' (:confused:) but I actually smiled to myself when you made the remarks of narrow-mindedness.
I provided you with an all-round-view of the benefits of the EU (including the more obscure ones) and all you are rambling about is the increased immigrant population in Manchester (which I can sympathise with) but that is hardly a sufficient reason to leave the EU. So unless you have a new and interesting (although I have heard all the eurosceptic arguments before) argument, I am also more than happy to indulge.

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In an ideal world, they should have a vote ... but the reality is that most of the electorate are at best too uninformed and worst too thick. Period.
During the week of the MEP elections, papers had Susan Boyle's latest break-down on the front page. That is what the electorate would rather read about.

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What do you mean, in the UK or generally? :)
Well it went through an Act of Parliament ... that is how constitutional issues are done in the UK. Unlike Ireland, where their bizarre constitution requires a referendum for everything.

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... and the British Empire ... which makes me so proud! :D

You haven't really provided anything that is beneficial to the british citizens from joing the european union. Have you benefitted in any way? I would say you have which anwsers a question which you failed to answer.

The only people who are befitting from the uk joining the eu are the floods of immigrants that are enjoying the perks of our country and the freebies that are handed to them on a plate.

What gives a immigrant in this country to get priority from using the nhs and medical services over a britain that has paid their taxes and national insurance contributions? foreign nhs workers who cannot speak english and because they wouldn't not understand sit there looking dumb whilst a patient is dieing in pain because the medication they got is the wrong one.

The difference with me and you is that I remain to be realistic and see the downward spiral this country is going were you ignore the real life issues and want to quote documents and maybe even look at surveys/statistics that have been manipulated by the government for their own agendas. Who's the narrow minded one? You'll find that you face that person in the mirror every morning.

It's got nothing to do with your academic credentials but rather your stupidity. Try walking out the door and opening your eyes. ;)