IonCube Rant
 

Why is it that the second someone thinks they can make 2 cents from some mod they IonCube the crap out of it?

I have nothing against protecting your source, or IonCube, or making 2 cents. BUT:

If your product can suddenly no longer be extended, modified, enhanced, etc, by anyone but you it WILL fail horribly and not make a penny.

Imagine a vbAdvanced where nobody could make their own modules. Imagine a vbSEO where you couldn't make custom rewrite rules.

I recently tried a certain store, which shall go unnamed, where you couldn't add your own itemtypes, or modify existing ones (the scant few that existed) in anyway. If it didn't do exactly what you wanted, tough cookies.

Epic fail. A lot of someone's hard work down the drain.

Get a clue fellow developers.

:mad:

if its ioncube i just stay away from it.So the developer has lost one sale.
I do understand why they do it but if people need to change things so the app fits into their board then its impossible if its been protected with iOncube.

Die iOncube die :)

any encrypter is stupid... if someone was able to code a product with vBulletin, anybody can try to do it... so if the idea is encrypted, someone else can release a non-encrypted version... so why encrypt at first... to avoid piracy... let me laugh, pirates/nullifiers love encrypted scripts, that's why they pirate, they want to break it... you feed them.

that's not realy true
if they provide a nice api you could make modules
also vbseo WAS encrypted and you was able to make custom rules;)

but,yes i'm also against it, you never know what the product realy do....
just my 2 cents

actually, vbSEO was encrypted and they decided to switch because it was pointless, a nulled version was released some days after the official, so they were loosing time encrypting. they continue to have a verification engine without encrypting the essential of the script, and everybody is happy.

also you were able to write new rules because these rules were .htaccess rules, nothing more.

it wasn't "pointless" - I'm sure they always planned to release an unencrypted version.

encrypting just gave them time to run tests so that they didn't have to worry about piracy, competition, etc ... it was a smart move


encrypting code is done for a variety of reasons - it surely doesn't mean "Epic fail" for the developer (eg. vbseo)

I stated I have nothing against encrypting. I will probably use it someday. But use it to protect your core product, not to make your product un-extensible. I would never encrypt Egg Avatar - it's not worth it. But the kind of bad encryption I'm referring to would be encrypting egg avatar so only I could add new eggs.

I'm pretty sure I know the product you are referring to and I agree, they are shooting themselves in the foot with their approach...I quit using it too for the very same reasons!

It's funny how you guys "speculate" why vbseo was using ioncube
I'm 100% sure it wasn't this..
:rolleyes:

I seem to remember reading it was more for performance at the time, things have changed since then, improvements have been made.
:)

I agree the encrypting mods is really really bad, I've been talking on the phone with a client that last few weeks that's spent 100's$ on vbcube, or vbharrold, I don't remember the name.. some POS mod that the only has encrypted, and my client has a custom site, so he wants to customize the mods.. well guess what, he can't!

anyways.. I owned vbseo when it was encrypted, and it DIDN'T limit me to anything, eg rewrite rules, custom pages. I had all the function that the current "un-encrypted" version has, short of the new updates since those days..

me personality won't buy any ioncube products...for my board.I eventually find it somewhere else.

A couple of points:

1) I said image a vbSEO where you couldn't make your own re-write rules. I was saying that is what over-encrypting does - I was not saying that's what vbSEO did.

2) The product in question is free, an moderately useful as a free mod. But the inability to extend it in anyway is a big draw back. In fact, the encrypted addon item type I had (am having) trouble with is also free. Not really sure what the plan there is...

hum, as the internal policy here is to not discuss external products, i would suggest to keep it to the level of "yes/no encryption"... ?!

personally, if a tool require that you install something more than the default requirements of the engine, we have a problem... most of the newbies will not be able to install such engine without the help of some support staff, they would even have to hire the coder to be sure everything is fine.

... i think that most of the time, if you check properly, the places where they release encrypted scripts also offer installation at a high rate, even if it takes 20 seconds to install ioncube or something else... that is where they do their profit.

I bought a script that was encrypted with ion cube. It ran good for about 18 months. Then the developer disappeared and the script stopped working. The error msg said something like - "You are no authorized to use this program" - but I had bought the program. It was only the support that I had to buy extra.

So I had to remove that script and buy another one.

I can understand someone wanting to protect their property. But, I had paid for that product and lost use of it when the developer disappeared.

I seriously doubt I will ever buy another product that uses ion cube. I felt ripped off. The product had been paid for, but stopped working because of something? Bah. To me, that is like your car company taking the car back after its paid for. Or the car company taking the motor out of your car after its been paid off.

yep, that is the reason why i don't buy anything with ioncubed.....after buying it and using it and then it stopped working....

IonCube FTW!

This encrypting has it's benefits and it has it's downfalls like every other software available. However it is entirely up to the software developer to use the tools in an appropriate fashion. Every comment has been so biased it's not even funny. Consider that IonCube has potentially saved developers millions, yes I said millions, in revenue. The soul developer of a particular project utilizing IonCube is to blame for any grievances between the customers/users using it (the project).

:) IMOP

why are the comments biased ? we simply saying if something is encoded with iOncube then we wont purchase it - choice is ours.
Now why is that biased - i drive a Toyota am i then biased towards Nissan for not buying their jeep instead ?
It all boils down to choice and u say above that it has saved millions for developers - where are these figures coming from because how much has it also lost the developer as well ??

I think my comments have been far from bias. I rant against a particular use of encrypting, and state that I do not believe encrypting itself is bad, and might even someday use it myself.

i believe those figures are false.I can say and wont mention couple of web developer site that i had purchase there product fully licensed, and now they are useless because all i get is errors something in the script that requires info from the developer website and they are no longer up.

there is a difference between encrypting your script and hiding a call-home function in that encryption to verify the usage of a pirated version... which is far from being useful, it's just bandwidth hungry and non-prpductive. these developers always think their site will be up indefinitely, because they are allmighty...

Another point - it's kinda useless to encrypt scripts - for all of the known encoders also decoders exist and since PHP's source is available, it's possible to modify it that instead of parsing the plain code comes out.
At all - the money these encoders cost isn't well spent, it won't keep the "bad guys" out so using them gives just some kind of a fake protection.
A good license is maybe better, either people care about the license, then you won't need an encoder or they don't care, for the second group of people an encoder isn't a huge problem, maybe just a small one finding the right decoder but that's it.

Personally - in a world of injections, XSS flaws and these problems I wouldn't install and run a "binary only" script on a production system for simple security reasons and other reasons already posted - like a stopped development.

na, nex i know the difference but it was encrypted, but when i had someone look at it, he made a comment something to a call back not to sure exactly.All i know it was working fine and the next thing it wasn't all it was doing is giving me errors.

I could have been an ass and pay someone to decrypt it and null it for me but i choose not too.But that was years ago life move on and a lesson learned.

I don't particularly care if any of you agree or not with me on this subject. :)
Just saying so don't flip out, cause your not the "ALL MIGHTY Himself."


Let's just say if I could encrypt my VB styles, I would in a heart beat. IonCube protects your investment much like an insurance company protects your home or automobile. Except IonCube isn't susceptible to hurricane and flood damages. :/

why encrypt a style?... i can fetch all your styles in the twist of a hand, because you have demos on your site... even if the release is encrypted, what will it do to protect each page viewed from it to not be leeched?

styles encryption is pointless... same way when you see a site where a javascript is avoiding the usage of the right-click button... they never knew there was a menu on top of the browser...

then you would`nt sell any styles would you.
Also who is not the almighty ? bit strong coming from someone who thinks he a gaysta,sorry my mistake - Gangsta :)

Now I hope you understand why I said I would encrypt if I could. You just said yourself that with the know how it can be ripped and distributed. You just reiterated my point. Thank you.

I would only Encrypt FREE Styles to prevent my link from getting deleted. Why do people remove the link from the free skins, is a link too MUCH to ask for? I don't release skins here to be nice, I do it to drive traffic. Period. I have had too many bad experience on this site to really invest for the "greater good" of the software (vbulletin). I'm not saying I going to stop paying them so Mods or anyone else please don't panic. :rolleyes:

Ranting again sry lol

i understand the value and the time that you guys put in to creating a software and protecting it afterward.But i believe the cost of purchasing that program and encrypting it is kinda useless, for someone that can crack it.Someone at vb.com or i think it was here had mention that, it don't bother them that much ! but if anything it helps them to improve there software to track for any security holes and can improve there performance.

................

hmmmm, I just have to post and point some things I been through

-First time I installed vbulletin was a pirated copy, got caught then I really loved the software that I actually bought a owned license. Currently Own 3.

Same with vbseo and vbtube, in the internet you can find anything for free, even better much better scripts its just when someone is ready to pay its going to pay and when someone doesn't really want to pay, he WILL NEVER pay.

Even thought I consider my self a pirate, I often contribute to the "scene" because remember we are not all fortunate, I personally I know tons of great people that can't afford many of this scripts but there's always two sides of the coin.

I know it's way off topic, I actually know some of the members here posting on this thread actually started at vbulletin using nulled copies of vbulletin.

hum, i can add to this... 90% of the coders here started with a client's vB or a nulled one to see how it work and if it worth coding for it...

a lot of designers and coders can not work on vB from a client's request because you have to purchase it to play with it... most of the other projects have free versions we can test, but not vB... so the coders have a real need of a nulled version to start playing with, and most of the time they are seduced, so they purchase a license, even if it's just to be able to code/sell for it.

who that might be ??? !!! i know you and i didn't start off with a null copy.....

hum, he just stated the opposite in his last comment... tsss

Read again IF you were referring to Puerto ;)

Well that's because they did not realize you could throw up another forum for testing purposes... HELLO I did not until just recently but then again some do not have the knowledge... they have enough brains to rip your stuff but not code it themselves else they would make their own version... Who did the video-directory remixed mod.. I can't remember but he really ticked me off being a tactless twat so I made my own but the way I wanted to and not using ANY of his code so hmph BUT you see my point (I hope :D).

S-MAN

Edit: The comment on calling home and codes that quit working when their site is down id soooo true and people need to quit doing that, maybe for a demo to a client but then remove asap and recode after purchased. I recently lost my site and domain due to a conflict of interest w/ the host right before renewal so I'm VERY HAPPY I did not release any mods or do any work on sites requiring info from that site. (I did a complete backup of files so I could fix if needed yest there was nothing as said but that's not the point, the methods to our madness is the point i.e. the threads title IonCube ;))

LOL everyones getting worried

I dont know the guy so counts me out :) but Yes i started my life with vbull using a null copy before i was forced to buy a license.

I started as a tech admin for a board running a valid copy. I expect that is the road most coders took. People who steal things often assume everyone thinks like them and steals things, too. It's how they justify their actions.

With that said, I think your statement was not meant to come across quite as bad as it did. You aren't saying 90% of coders started with a nulled copy. I think you are saying that most coders started with a clients copy, and a few started with a nulled copy.

Either way, anything to do with a nulled copy of vB is not only illegal, but also immoral. If you want a free board get one. SMF and phpBB3 are both good boards. If you feel you want to run vB over those free choices there must be a reason and that reason is worth paying for, so pay for it and stick a sock in it :p

Let me also point out (to get focus back to the original op) that vB has never been encrypted, to my knowledge. In fact, a lot of what goes on here depends on vB being open and accessible.

If it was encrypted it probably wouldn't be as popular. When it comes to creating community sites, flexibility is the key. Everyone wants to be unique so thus the reason for modifications that combine vBulletin with other softwares (eg wordpress) or vb specific addons. So I think I can agree with you on that point. :D

I pirated vBulletin right when I got into coding. I also pirated IPB when they released 2.x but back then I could not understand the code and I'm sure I probably couldn't understand it now. On the other hand though I picked up vBulletin's coding fairly quickly.

as you can see, i stated two different situations, you took only the worst one... that's sad... rofl

How is loosing the use of a script because the developer disappeared biased? I paid for the full use of that script, and now its useless.


It might have saved the developers money, but the customers do not deserve to be ripped off.

What kind of car or truck do you drive? Will the bank go pick that car or truck up after it paid for? Nope, because its yours.

I have been denied something that I have a legal right to use. The right to use of that product was granted through the license agreement. But now I can not use the product because of ion cube.

And, if you ask developers to decrypt the software, most of them will not touch it. They think your trying to steal the software.

Here I am, with something that I can not use, nor can I get it fixed so I can use it. But somehow that "biased"?

that'S why you will never see a encrypted script on my site... have the job to do both ways...

Not exactly in that context, no. However I was referring to multiple other rants on Page 1. These comments in context state that IonCube product's shouldn't or won't ever be used again, by a given specif user, because of an experience with an unreliable developer. Thus biased.

I am not here to argue the fact that YOU HAVE LOST MONEY.
That for me personally is 1) none of my business and 2)nor do I care to make it my business.

However, simply saying that you will never used and IonCube encrypted product simply because someone else had a problem is biased by definition. Please if there are any doubts google biased and your nearest English professor.

By the way I have been a paying member of phpaudit, an IonCube encrypted product, since 2007. Couldn't be happier.


Personally for SolidPHP (author of phpaudit) here is what I have to say:
Problems: 0
Customer Satisfaction: 100%
IonCube Encrypted: Yes
http://www.solidphp.com/

Once again it's all in how a specific developer handles their work. Some people don't care and some people do care. Unfortunately you found a developer that doesn't care.

So don't flip your wig, because not all IonCube products suck, and not all developers will jack with you. ;)

The last Ioncube encrypted product i came across instantly lost a customer. I was really impressed with their product and just before placing an order I downloaded a demo copy to test to see if it would work on my server setup. It was encrypted - this didn't strike me as an issue; but i figured i'd better check that the full version wouldn't be. The reply came back that it was and that there wasn't a version sold that would be open source.

This put me off totally; not having the ability to modify and tinker with software that I've bought is just unacceptable. Aside from the phoning home aspect, the fact that if the devs disappear the software stops, that I can't fix bugs/issues such as XSS/SQl injection flaws; it stops me getting a judge of how well written the software is. For all I know, there could be some hideously inefficient code stuck in the middle of an important part of the script, or worse a purposeful back door.

Amusingly, I'm now considering using vbulletin as a platform to replace the software As with the use of vbadvanced, Vbulletin's subscription system and of cause the forums; I can setup 90% of what i needed this software to do. The rest I can probably put together in a matter of hours. If the tests on my dev board go well, IonCube may have gained Jelsoft another sale.