Trusted Coder/Designer Scheme for VB.org
 

Its a shame that we can't have a feedback type of mod on here,

Perhaps now's the time to set up a VB.org Trusted Designer/Coder Scheme where only fully vetted and trusted members can join, So no Cowboys, Thanks

It wouldn't take much to set up and only Coders/Designers that are willing to let the scheme mediate any problems before monies are exchanged, Perhaps have a "Trusted Logo" in their Postbit.

Member who want to take part would have to be recommended and provide proof of their work, etc as well as being established on here, Why would someone give a job to a guy no one knows with only 3 post???

It would be a great idea to be able to be part of this scheme, and hopefully members would be proud of their "Trusted" status, Not to mention the influx of work that may come their way.

It does make me angry when people on here get ripped off, but if anyone can prevent it, then its us ;)

I wonder if the Nice Admin's on this great site would allow something like this???

Even being branded as a trusted designer/coder wouldn't be enough to reflect the trustworthiness in a person. Nothing is stopping them from doing a couple of jobs and then ripping off someone. Or, having a friend say they did a great job for them when infact they didn't.

A system needs to be put in place that is ongoing throughout time so people know what kind of person they are dealing with now not from 6 months ago when they were handed a trusted title. I agree though, something needs to be done, too many people are being ripped off here.

Fully "vetted and trusted" by who exactly ?

What happens if one of these trusted members goes on to "rip someone off" (or is simply accused of it) ?

Sorry, but while at first this may sound a good idea, such a system is open to loads of abuse and problems, and the staff here dont have the time (or desire) to administer such a system (or deal with the numerous complaints, accusations, etc that it would inevitably cause).

I think the best that can be done is show how many (un)satisfied customers a coder has, but Paul posted some time ago that a coder rating system will not happen anytime soon.

Thanks for the reply Paul, :) Thats the problem "What happens if one of these trusted members goes on to "rip someone off" (or is simply accused of it) ?"

How about some sort of feedback mod where members could see for themselves, I know nothing will stop someone ripping someone off even if they have trusted status, But would a member that has such status be willing to chuck it all away for a few dollars??? ( not to mention future work???)

Most importantly would it lower the rate of these scams being committed, as oppose to simply not doing nothing??

Thanks Paul ;)

I can see it turning into more of a competition.

He may of told us but that dont stop us asking Again does it.
A board is not about the staff please remember that - its about time they stood back and actually listened to what the members are asking for.How many posts/threads have been on here over the yrs regarding the same subject,and how many members have left vb.org simply because its like banging your head off a brick wall,because the staff dont ever want to listen to what others have to say or implement anything that would make the board much safer for ALL members.An ebay feedback system would be the perfect tool.

Who really cares if its open to abuse,its more than we got at the moment,which is nothing.
The current system as it stands is open to abuse and it certainly does get abused simply because there is no comeback on either party if things fall apart.
Final Note : If you not willing to help then you should consider removing the Paid for requests section until you can come up with a better solution.

Thats what i thought Lasto, Doing something has to be better that just sitting back and turning the other cheek. Its strange how everyones prepared to argue against an idea like this but when the problems occur, no one wants to know.

The fact remains you can never cure this problem 100% But what you can do is to reduce the risk of re-occurance and thats got to be worth something :confused:

I belong to another forum that using a rating system for this in which the desinger and buyer rates one another and also leaves a writen eval as well. Similiar to Ebay but not that involved. I won't be using anyone from here again, unless something like this is installed.

It's too bad because I had at least 20 projects or more. Several hundred in award $ I prefer to give my business to individuals who could use a little extra dough, especially now a days, but I guess I'll just go back to use big companies. Bummer.

It's a difficult thing to regulate and takes a lot of admin time I understand this.

Gabby

iTrader is pretty well self-managed and works pretty good at many places I do business Paul. I agree that staff here shouldn't be asked to spend all their time refereeing perhaps something along those lines would be worth a trial period?

I actually tested iTrader on my local vb.org test forum about 18 months ago, but in the end it never went any further. TBH, I cant remember why now, but I think it was just lack of time. Its never been completely ruled out, but its not top of the list of things to look at.

no one is asking them to referee - just to install a system that is fair to be sides.
If this seems to be falling on deaf ears then make a public vote and ask members what they want.

I think itrader would be a good idea for this problem. It may not be the best, but it would at least help build credibility for the newer users at the Org.

By all means have a vote, but please remember that we dont make decisions based purely on public (or private) votes.

actually, Paul, your role here is to satisfy the community -- globally -- if we have 50 voters, i don't think it would be representative... but if we have 2000, maybe it would be just fair to do something... i personally don't care about a system, i think vb.org is not a repository for references or a portfolio.
a vote or so.. .lol


i give a positive vote here... there is no more than 50 voters here!

voted YES but how many people are going to see this thread.
Also the feedback system would cover members as well not just Coders/Designers as it has to cover both sides of the deal.

I can see where Paul is coming from.

The mods Do a grand job here its gonna make it worst if we expect them to police this feedback idea, Thats why a system like i trader or some sort of referance tool will let the members decide for themselves based on the coders/designers feedback, a system like that would not require any input from the staff as its purely run by input from the members themselves.

The fact Remains, we're never going to stop this from happening, but we can do something to reduce the risk.

I think its a great idea and definately worth a shot, if it don't work after 3 months, then Scrap the idea, But if everyone had a choice to either do something about it or close your eyes and pretend it don't happen, then i'd know which i would chose ;)

hmmmm...why not...it might be a good idea... Go 4 Yes here...
....same as...

:p:up: Yes We Can!

Thanks for the honest reply Paul, I appreciate it :)

If only that were true, but in reality, someone who gets a bad mark will complain its false/unjust - people will use it to falsely bad rep others they dont like etc etc, staff will have to spend time checking for abuse.

Would that be solved with an extra staff member?

There has to be a reason for a bad Mark Paul, well that seems to be a minor inconvienaince compared to the real problem of people getting ripped off.

I guess we could have a resolution group, of senior (Long term) members which would resolve such issues, like a council which would look into any problems on behalf of members, But to be honest, if someonen does what your saying then it should be a bannable offence.

Can you see this being a Major problem with staff Rushed off their feet sorting abuse claims??

Thanks for your Answers Paul ;)

How can that be any worse than the system we have in place.
Of course you are going to get people saying he gave me a bad mark for nothing - well the other person just gives a bad mark in return.
Now if a person has loads of bad marks from different people then it certainly gives you an indication that things are not going to well for them and that they are failing on their part.
No need for mods to stress and have to intervene.
Add the system and let us do it ourselfs.

Such a system has a corrective nature. On sites that have a ratings system, many members are extremely cautious of their reputation and are also eager to reach the top of the reputation list. (because for coders that means more coding jobs)

Thats why i think that the more trustworthy people would want to protect their repuatation, similar to ebay feedback, Its all very nice saying well they'll do a good job for a few years, get mega feedback and then probably rip someone off, In reality it don't work like that.

I think that the relationship between client and coder with high feedback will be better than with someone with very few.

just don't let people rate me if I don't answer a support question in the mods area and it's fine :p

No,no,no,no,no.You could give bad feedback just because you don't like the person.

trust no one

The hack should nto be used for that purpose as that is general board use.
The itrader hack is for the paid request section so people can give good or bad rating depending on the outcome of the deal.

iTrader system!

Nothing changed to change our view on this since this post: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....2&postcount=49

if we track the requests more, we can see that since 2002, nothing changed... and their arguments are fair and correct... for some people, there is a need for a global sticky about this, i think.. lol

actually i would be one with only positive feedbacks, as i do not release anything here... ;) if you start making negative feedbacks only because i did not answer your requests, or if you just not like me, it's pathetic... ;(

(i say "you", but it's not toward anybody here!)

The way i see it is this :

Scammers can freely go around this board and get away with it.
If we complain or god forbid ask them for our money back we risk a ban or get accused of trolling threads (esp since the scammers simply ignore pm`s)

There is no recourse for them but plenty for us.VB.org does not have a system in place to protect either party - and if we use the tools `as provided` it simply means nothing - its just text,words which mean nothing as many people do not use search to check up on members.
What action is taken when something goes wrong - how come the scammers who have been reported are freely browsing the board and taking new jobs.
The answer is simple :

They done nothing to the board - so they allowed and because we ourselfs have a problem then its up to us to take it elsewhere and sort it out and not post anything about it on here.
Ive had numerous posts edited by MODS because its not in the boards interest.

Im close to a Ban as well but when i get a ban - remember this - The scammers who ripped me off will proberly be taking your job from paid request section and theres nothing u can do if they rip u off.

lasto, I'm pretty sure you won't get banned for pointing out that you were ripped off, I think anyone who's a victim in any type of case, cannot be vitimised if they speak out and let others know of the Dangers.

I'm sure all the admins here at VB.org are looking into this as we speak, so hang in there. Only this weekend gabby got stung, so i'm sure something going to get done mate.

VB.org is a great forum and there are many honest people that would go out of their way to help. Its sad things like this happen but thats life it'll happen on any forum given half the chance.

We just need to be extra careful, Get recommendations from others and only part with money after the job has been done, if a coder want money up front, then look elsewhere as thes probably loads that would help for free.

I know yopu lost a large sum of money, but at least you won't make the same mistake twice.

Hang in there mate

Gerry :)

Do u want to bet - i did get stung twice.Check my sig.
Also im not holding my breath as the second job i was ripped off on was taken last september and the person is still browsing freely.
All they do is ignore PMS and hope it will go away.Look at it this way - Scammers dont even need to use the actual board so long as they got the pm system and from that they just need to Pm anyone who posts a job in the request section.
They should be made to reply to the job - and not by way of the PM system.Nobody even knows they are still active until u get a pm from them

How about if we coders and designers came up with a voluntry code of practice, that would be adhered to, giving both parties piece of mind. If we signed up voluntarily and agreed to a few ground rules then surely that would put the faith back into the community?

I'm sure people here be willing to get a job done and then get paid afterwards, or even use a 3rd party as an escrow service, I don't know??? But could it be something we could expand on and get the ideas coming in???

that wont work simply because theres always people who are willing to rip others off.
Even though ive had 2 people who ripped me off and get away with it,Ive still had many success stories with other coders who have took jobs and completed the work.
Is just a few bad eggs out there,but without the proper feedback system in place they wont be weeded out,so we back to square one.
Over the years Vb.Org has been told that people are gettin ripped big style on here but they do nothing,as its not their problem.They wont implement anything to make our lifes easier or something where u can see at a glance if the user has had much success in the past.
The onus is always on the requester to do searches and then even when u find a coder/designer who seems right for the job it dont mean u wont get stung.
Now when it goes wrong all you are allowed to do is post a short post (to your orginal request) with who took the job and what went wrong - anythin else and the mods go mad in Edit mode.
And that im afraid is the end of it - you have to carry on your life as if everything fine.Even though you mega p***** that the other party has got away with it.

For what my two cents is worth. I think vb.org should either have a rating system or stop paid projects all together. I'm considering creating a forum for paid projects and it WILL have a ratings system. I think there is a great need for an exclusive forum like this for two reasons. One is that there are a great deal of very talented individuals out there that could use a little bit of extra cash and running live publically viewed contests is kind of fun. I would also make designers/coders have to submit an application first and a non refundable monthly participation fee.

I work way to hard for my money to have some scumbag take it for free. :mad:

Gabby

It's been tried & done before; some efforts were by unknowns & some were by some pretty common names in the vB community. All failed for various reasons.

That part in bold will likely ensure failure before the project even got started.

The solution is what you've already said...Whether the vB.org staff care enough to accept it not, vB.org is still the master 'hub' for a lot of the freelance work in the vB community. As long as it remains to run like it is today, then the scammers will remain rampant and those who get ripped off are the ones who get penalized. As others have said... throw iTrader up and let the vB community police ourselves.