less people using vb?
 

my 3.6 mods used to have more installs than the 3.7 ones.

I think this is true for all coders. do you have the feeling that vb has less customers too nowadays? at least customers who use mods.

hows the vb coders crew customer numbers, did you see a drop?

this is not a rant, please dont eat me.

I think that perhaps it may be that there are many more different variations of the same mod that members have more variety to chose from??

There's also less and less reason to mark a mod as installed... again. So many mods are identical from release to release and I doubt people go to the trouble of marking the new one installed, or even installing it if the old one works.

I will say: 3.7 lacked the 'Wow FX'
.1 cent

There's simply more of them, and a lot of third party functionality became inherent anyway. I doubt there are fewer customers. If anything, there are just more modifications and more duplications of the same things over again.

Maybe people don't see it is worth upgrading to 3.7? and just waiting on 3.8 or 4.0.

vBulletin is more expansive ;) Perhaps it's an explaination :)

It may also be that most mods are multi version compatible, so hence the less and less mods for the 3.6, 3.7 and 3.8 versions because all mods from generally 3.5 to 3.8 can usually be used on a recent forum with minor editing. I'd say when vBulletin 4 comes out, there'll be more, because vBulletin 4 would make most mods require a complete code rewrite.

3.6 has been around much longer so is bound to have more installs, plus the gap between 3.6 and 3.7 was almost 18 months, while the gap between 3.7 and 3.8 is < 12 months. Each time a new version comes out, the install rate on previous versions falls.

each time a new version comes out its another headache for us poor webmasters because we either have to hope the existing hacks we use work or pay to have them recoded.
That is the main reason why i have not upgraded and am stuck on 3.6 at moment because tbh im fed up paying money out to have existing hacks work on the board.
I know what u all thinking - stick with the basic vb install and it will upgrade fine but the basic vbull leaves a lot out and is ok if u just want a standard board and nothing else.

Maybe the phenomenon is due to the 'volunteer' nature of the site, but like anything, got its PROs & CONs

I think it's because vBulletin is becoming stuffed with too many features.I would rather work on the code improvement first.

I'm sure that everything listed in this thread plays a part in the overall picture. For me, personally, the above quote is what has turned me off from vB.

That, and I refuse to work with tables. There were several occasions where I would sit down and try to come up with a tableless / semantic markup / etc skin so that all I would need to do is create stylesheet after stylesheet for new skins, but vB is a BEAST. Way too many templates, and about 30 or so in, I lost motivation and ended up being angry that vB is still this way.

To me, paying $160 for something that is so frustrating to work with is not only irritating, but also absurd and in my opinion, Jelsoft should have done something about that, instead of putting their time into trying to mimic Myspace.

I think its because of the increasing amount of Nulled vBulletins going around the internet. People with valid licenses are RIPPING mods and styles and posting them on warez sites so with a simple off shore host, you can run any nulled vbulletin with any mods and get away with it. I think more people are turning to that and think they can get away with it which I have almost done before I started my sites. I think that vBulletin should come up with more security in the future to prevent nulling of the software and its features.

Almost every single warez site on the net has nulled scripts like vBulletin.

As much as I am flattered that you quoted me,I must disagree with your statement.I think the template system is way better constructed and also easier to use than,let's say,some Smarty based.I work with PhpFoX which is heavily based on Smarty,and it's hell of a pain.The vB template system is not perfect,but best I have seen so far and they make it easier to create end-user products.

I prefer vB because of the template system. But I digress.

I don't think the "too many features" argument makes any kind of logical sense, though. I could understand if it where a "function creep" argument; too many features that no one uses. But that's not the case here. You've got features that people are either choosing to use and others are choosing not to use. I hear too many vB owners say things like the Social Networking features are a bad idea or surpurflous, while totally ignoring the fact that a lot of sites utilize the feature and that their users like, even love it.

Yes,but they could have included an option to get rid of all that Social networking stuff,like use old style profiles.

I just bought vB about a week ago, and I don't plan on quitting.

Well, perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My issue is not with the template system itself, but the markup used in the templates. Tables, tables, tables.. and when there are literally hundreds of different templates inside of a style, it is way too overwhelming for someone like me to go in and make it different. Like I said, I have tried and lost motivation.

I don't think that it's HARD to do.. just frustrating. It's almost 2009, and tableless markup has been around for years now. Imagine a vBulletin where a new style meant almost never having to touch the html markup.. and only doing it all with css? Why that wasn't a main focus for vB 3.5 (hell, even 3.0) I will never understand, and I think it is absolutely ridiculous that it is now 3.8 and it still isn't even on the list.

I am just stating, that is the main reason why I have turned from vBulletin.. and I'm sure there's at least a handful of people who feel the same I do? This may or may not be their plans for 4.0, I don't know.. but at that point, I think it's going to be too little too late.

PHPBB is free, and their default style is light years ahead of vBulletins (note that I'm talking strictly about markup here, not the look/feel of the style itself). There's something wrong with that picture, if you ask me.

Yes,I am sorry I misunderstood.I have to agree with that point,that is true.The loads of tables is what convinced me not to be a designer :)

Well, I also saw a decrease in active members on vb.com forum this year comparing with last year, or something, can't say exactly when, but traffic there got lower, anyone notice that? Not saying vbulletin is doomed or anything silly like that, I'm just curious with that fact, and curious if it's just me seeing things or it really did happen.

Yes,from what I noticed,it's happening here as well.IMHO,please do not insult me for this opinion,but I think it's because the world is now revolving too much about money.Money,money and again money.A couple of years ago coders did everything for free (including myself),now that everything has gone up and everything costs something,we need to care about our business.People are on the edge of the abyss and they will soon cause their own destruction.What's the point of buying government planes that costs millions of dollars,when there are people in Africa,or even in their own country,who are dying and have nothing to eat.I mean what makes us different from other animals,apart from that that we can think on a higher level?If everyone will think just about himself,the point of living and a society and helping each other,disappears.

Ah,I have gone too much off-topic,but I needed to say that :)

Why do people keep saying that? It's under vBulletin Options in the Admin CP. The only thing that can't be changed is the orientation of the blocks and the use of tabs. But the entire Social Networking aspect of profiles can be ticked on and off with specificity.


Let's be pragmatic here. Other then the ideological stance people have with tables, moving over to DIVs isn't going to change a whole lot for designers. You actually will still have to touch the templates most of the time you would have for a table based one.

But as far as the slow move to pure CSS (which I've always felt was a poor choice of words, but I digress again), you have to consider the fact that vBulletin has always made their changes gradually. Which, having done some designing myself, is a welcome behaviour, because there would nothing worse, even from a coder's standpoint, for them to make such dramatic shifts in the code and styling of the product that you have to re-learn everything all over again. This may not be their primary motivation, but I'm sure they've considered what kind of a shock to the styles and mods market a less then gradual change would have on their system. It may be slow to others, but over all it makes sense to keep it paced for the masses.

Yes I know,but I liked the old profile styles :)

I'm sure you could get the old style back with a single template edit.

Sure,but I believe I am not the only one who liked the old style profiles :)

Well, I like the new profile styles a lot better than the old four squares one :)

what makes you say they're trying to mimic myspace? it doesn't at all seem like that to me. especially with the look of the usercp, i'd wish they'd go more into the new myspace system, because users on forums would just love the simplicity.

i do feel like less people sites are using vbulletin these days. i think even up to early 3.6 ages, it was hard to find a good forum that wasn't using vbulletin, but these days it's not, a lot of newer sites don't go for vbulletin, but rather for the competitions, or go straight joomla/xoops because of the userfriendly look on profiles etc, and then choose a crappy forum because most people these days want their profiles to shine. almost only forums that are completely based on sharing information still run vbulletin.

but i still love vbulletin, and i'll keep advising it to every client or friend of mine, even if most decide against it these days, which to me almost always seems to be because of the user profile and usercp.

Jedi, I both see and understand where you are coming from with that, but I don't personally think that it should be the case. I also have to disagree with this:
If whoever they hire for this job is skilled enough, can come up with very clean and semantic markup, and knows what they're doing with CSS, then there is no doubt in my mind that I could create an entirely different looking layout without ever having to touch the markup once.

I'm not saying that will be the case every single time, but most template changes will simply be to put in additional features that are desired and not there by default.

I see what you're saying about most people not being ready for a big change like that.. but I would never let that hold me back as a business owner. If people want the old style, then they can use an older version of vBulletin. I don't feel that a web development company should hold itself back from advancing because some people may not want to learn how to use CSS correctly.

At least, AT LEAST offer two variations.. maybe keep the tables alive for people who will flip out, and also offer a clean, semantic, and tableless design for people who are ready to move forward as the internet does.

I think the one and only downside of it would be third party addons / plugins. Let's face it, the majority of programmers are not the best html developers in the world.. and vice verca. There would probably need to be two developers per addon most of the time. One for markup, the other for programming. That will never stick in this community.

I should a be little more clear on what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting that vB is holding back because people where not mentally prepared to handle big change, I mean they where being patient because people may not be physically prepared to handle sudden change.

It's like why countries like the US have a transition period where the next President has to wait several months before the final transition of power takes place, both for reasons of national security and for the mental progression it will take for the country to grasp it. Complex systems usually develop at a pace, rather then just when change is first available. In this case, the complex system isn't just vBulletin core script, but the entire community as a whole (plugin/mod developers, style designers, veteran administrators, novice vB owners, business sites that rely on third party scripts, non-business sites with a dedicated fan-base, etc). I don't think it would be wise for any business, just for the sake of a new technology, to disregard their market base as whole for any one component. Sure, it may mean that they have to rely on some older technology for a while. But in the meantime, their process remains structured, everything continues to function efficiently, and their customer base doesn't feel their being left behind.

vBulletin's template system is miles behind others. It's nowhere near the best one...

Actually, I never used a template system better than vb

I'd have to second that.

vBulletin upped their prices during the 'Credit Crunch', I'm sure they will be losing many more customers during this time.

where are the facts though to say that less people are using vbulletin.
Have jelsoft released these figures because i dont know how else u would know.
If u are basing it on downloads (installs from this board) then that is not a true way.Like people have said there are other sources to get hacks from and they are more freely available or u could look at it another way - people aint modding their boards as much.

He's basing if off the number of installs for mods for different versions. In other words, any of these could also account for the figures:

1. Your latest version of the mod is slightly worse than the last one.
2. Less people are using 3.8 because it's in beta.
3. Less people are using 3.7
4. People aren't modifying their forums as much as most features are built in.
5. People are getting the modifications elsewhere
6. More people learnt to program/code and are making their own modifications
7. Less people are clicking the install button (like myself, I've probably only marked like 5 mods here as installed other than those I've actually released).
8. People are still using the older version with the newer forum version.
9. People clicked install then clicking uninstall without actually uninstalling the modification.
10. People installed it and simply uninstalled it again for some reason.

We're not saying that atall. He is just asking a question. :)

indeed :) and the questions were:

also, I wanted to know if people saw a decrease in users logged on vb.com forums, as I did but not sure of it.

im just wondering, vb having more or less customers wont affect my life.

I'll tell you one thing, the number of active posts on this forum doesn't seem to have decreased any.

1. Can it be?It's the same mod just for a different vB version
2. We are talking about 3.6 and 3.7
3. Well from so what I have seen so far this is definitely not true
4. True but most of the features found here are not yet implemented
5. True
6. Ah I have to disagree with this.Some did but still most didn't
7. Absolutely true
8. True as well
9. Not likely :S
10. Might be

:)