vbgeek's mods in vb.org?
 

Hello,
Anybody have any notice about that?
[ see in http://www.thevbgeek.com/showthread.php?t=3613 ]
My question is about open [or not] a new install with Gars...
Tks in advance
Joao Barroca
aka beduino

Well I was sure looking forward to the News Letter he has.. I wish someone would do one, I don't understand why no one has yo would think it would be a great seller..

Hello,
Samuel has living family's problems [if I understand...]
Newslletter like commbull
http://www.octanedev.com/support/index.php
Sean hacks
All the best
Beduino

Such a shame to see so many people against his work begin released here for free. The entire community would benefit from having these modifications released here (or anywhere).

I'm hoping he decides to release all of this here (or anywhere!) under a license that would allow anyone to modify the source code and re-package it.

I can understand his customers not wanting things to go in this direction because they paid for the software. But at the end of the day they were mostly paying for one-on-one support which is going to come to an end no matter what the author decides, unless he has time continue developing and supporting his software in the future at some point or transfers ownership of the products to another person.

At least they will have a chance of getting support from multiple people in the community if the work is released here. A "paid mod" going free will attract a lot of traffic and many people that didn't have a chance to try the software before will begin to using it. Lets not forget about the guys writting code around here who'll likely be taking a peek at all this new source code and thinking up ways to improve it. ;) There is also the matter of vBulletin upgrades....the current versions of the modifications may stop working at some point in the future when a new version of vBulletin is released. However these modifications are popular enough that someone in the community is bound to port them. If these modifications remain under their current license such ports can not be released to the community....meaning you're stuck doing it yourself or paying someone to do it for you.

As a community we need large projects like this! :) They should be open and anyone should be free to re-use/re-release the code provided that they have added something unique to it.

I wish The Geek and his family all the best.

Sorry but why such a shame ? This site is not as it used to be anymore and i know tons of people who doesn't visit vb.org anymore ( like me ) I seriously donot want that quality products will be released here and die slowly. I prefer another company purchase the rights of the scripts from Sam or wait him to solve the crisis matter at least 5-6 month. This site is not the old vb.org sorry to tell this but vb.org is dying eacy other day.

It has nothing to do with money in my case. My important case is that there are not enough good coders here anymore. People only care about their release level , admin powers etc... As i stated this site is dying and i don't want Sam's quality mods die with vb.org. This is all my opinion you may feel that vb.org is in perfect condition and i respect that.

That is a very important sentence because it exactly show what is missing here. Community ...


Also I want to explain good coder : There are perfect coders still at vb.org but because of increasing number of support requests etc nobody wants to help anyone else. Most people care about their release level and lots of mods coding standarts are not good.

In vb 3 days my board was hacked to death now i only have couple small mods from here. Because when i check the code i really hesitate to install most of them.

If Sam will release the modifications here what may happen , we must concentrate on that. A un qualified coder will probably take the matter in his/her hands because this code will bring fame to him on vb.org and fame will return money via paid modifications forum. Gars is a really extensive product and it needs to be improved perfectly but our coder will not be able to do that. And soon or later the product will loose all the benefits it gives to users.

If you don't visit how is it that you saw my reply? :)

You're missing the point, he can release it anywhere for all I care. As long as I'm allowed to modify and re-release it freely anywhere I want I will be happy.

This has nothing to do with vBulletin.org, vBulletin.org is not the vBulletin community..it's simply a place where that community meets (well part/most of it anyway).

None of that holds true if anyone is free to pick it up and run with it. So what if an "un qualified" programming plays with it? What does skill level matter? Is he not allowed to learn by doing like the rest of us? Are you saying he won't pick up good habits by reading and making modifications to code released by a respect hacker in our community?

In your eyes this site may have "failed" but your attitude is not helping to correct this problem at all. Are things really so bad that two people with a different view point on a subject can't discuss it here without bringing up the old "the community is dead" argument?

I'm still here...(almost) 6 years running and helping out where possible. There are plenty of people around here that have been around as long as I have (if not longer). You might not see us much but then again we tend to stay out of the 'board politics' because we know better by now.

But back to the point; Why are you guys so against having this released here but so quick to have it sold to another service provider? Have you forgotten what happened to vBgallery? What happens if this new owner decides to stop providing support/updates for the software you own? What if they're not interested in transferring the rights to the software to someone else? These are things you all should be thinking about as a customer.

We both now that vbgallery case was totally different. vBGallery was killing photopost sales thats why they forced Brian to give up on the script. The background story may be different but the main idea on photopost was surely killing vbgallery.

However on the other hand Gars , Gal , Gaz have no competition product in the market . Gars is probably one of the best 2 top selling product as vBulletin addons and if Sam will decide to sell it he'll make sure the new owner will be a company who already provides good support and has quality products. So your theory may have a 1% chance but unfortunately mine has 50% of chance.

As for the vb.org friendly i gave up all my hopes for this site. You are right this is not the place to discuss but i just wanted to explain why i don't want those hacks to be released here. If you want to discuss about vb.org more you're always welcome to discuss that privately Brad.

The events around it begin transfered were not the same but the fact that it was handed over to another service provider is exactly the same thing that is going to happen with all of The Geek's products.

I'm saying that they can be killed off by whomever gets the rights to them, nothing more.

My theory has just as much chance of happening as yours, don't make up stats and pretend they're real. ;)

I'm sure he'll pass is off to someone he trusts but even in that case unexpected things can happen. If these scripts are really that popular then there is no doubt many new customers are going to be looking for support, resources, and answers to general questions.

Can the new service provider handle all of that? Do they have enough people around to develop and support all of these new modifications? Are these scripts going to bring in enough profit to warrent doing all of this work?

Your main issue seems to be that if these modifications were released for free they would "be hacked into a jumble of crap and not be supported". Have you even considered just hiring someone for one-on-one support when you need it? That is always an option even in the modification begin supported is free. As for the code "going to crap", sure it can happen but if everyone is free to work on it everyone is free to fix things up when needed. Just look at all the forked projects in the open source community! :)

On the subject of vB.org; It's a boring subject so I'll pass. There are plenty of places where people enjoy reading the same old rants about vB.org though. I'm sure you know where to find them by now. ;)

I don't understand why we are discusing this topic here on vbulletin.org at all.

This is something that will be discussed on his own website, and i am sure that he will make a decission on how to continue in the best interest of his customers. Where or how he will continue to offer his work is up to him. If he would decide to release his work on vB.org, then i am confident that he will find coders and supporters that will fit his standards to continue his work.

All we can do for now is wish him the best in sorting out his family problems.

The Geek has a couple scripts I would love to use mainly the news letter, I was hesitant about buying one because of the single user support whenever he was gone there was usually no support until he returned. Both options have it's good and bad points I'm sure, I only hope that if it gets released here that the Geek picks a coder himself that has supported their own mods in the past. I can't stand it when someone releases a mod and it's not even supported why even bother? As far as releasing it to another party and it being paid I would only hope that there is a team involved and not only one person.



I wish the Geek and his family well, May God Bless.




Thanks but I am going to try and hold out for he Geeks..

Dying every day? Is this another one of those members of an online forum who suddenly predict or talk of a site apocalypse? Seriously, I have seen this 'The site is dying and is falling apart' attitude too much before. Often also comes with leaving topics and threats of a mass exodus.

Oh, and most sites online are dead this time of year it seems. So what. Not an exclusive problem



And why do you think an unqualified one may take it on rather than a qualified coder? Seriously, I have seen plenty of coders here release good modifications which seem well coded enough. I mean, for an example, have you honestly seen the vB Credits modifications? Seems well coded to me.

Besides, if someone bad did take it up, it's not as if it's the problem caused by releasing it here. Heck, a bad company could take up the mod and charge for it. What would you rather have, a badly coded modification you have to pay for or one you don't? Oh, and don't say there are not badly coded commercial modifications and software packages around, I know quite a few which are extremely poorly coded according to many, many people.

As for the general idea of releasing them here... It would be nice, but not urgent. I for one would only ever use the article system and the newsletter. Everything else seems like the stuff only relevant for a commercially run site.

okay, so if there are no "good coders" here anymore where did they go?

did they stop coding all together? Or just leave because of board politics?

vb.org doesn't have any monopoly on where scripts originate from what I can see. it's not like anyone of these best coders created something like bestvbcoders.com forums.

all of us involved in forums know that personalities/characters fall off over years, sometimes it is because of life, others because of "it's not like the good old days" waxing nostalgic.

as we have recently had this convo on one of the forums I moderate, it is up to the community at large to contribute. It is up to the old timers to help the newbies adjust to the way that the community was chartered.

Stop waxing nostalgic about the past, and help preserve it in the future by contributing.

As far as GARS is concerned, I was seriously just contemplating purchasing it and sleeping on it overnight. I missed that window of opportunity, at the same time I'm glad because if I had any issues I'd not be able to have any help from the author. I can also see in their forums that their community isn't so responsive to the rest since it was mostly the geek who did the heavy lifting. He even complains about that himself in his crisis thread. Only upon the threat of turning over the scripts or abandoning them completely does anyone step forward.

Well, same thing happened to Psionic Vision, a guy who left vb.org due to the same reasons most coders left, opened a .com for selling his scripts, and now he closed doors.

At least Sam didn't ioncubed his phps. I hate those horrible copyright licenses, lets hope this doesnt happen with vBSEO, i use it and if it ceases to work, im gonna so much regret it!

Now taking the place of an eight year old kid, I would be sayin, "this wouldnt have happened if jelsoft listened for a while to all vb.org'ers for really big changes for future vb releases".

We wouldnt be needing hot selling scripts. At the moment, I believe that Invision's crew is working harder than Jelsoft's.

I know this thread is gonna be closed or deleted, vborg is way more diferent and authoritarian than 4-5 years ago, thats the "because" for so many questions.

/beats head on desk!

_V

Most of the good coders did not like the idea when the site decided to introduce the "paid script service", they where mostly against this idea and decided they would not support hacks for free here anymore. Some where for the idea, but only because they saw this as an opertunity to stop offering help for free and instead charge people. Either way, it was a negative thing for getting free help here after that service was put in place.

Same as above really. Some may still be here, but nothing like in the capacity is was before.

No, but they do have the power if the scripts are advertised here too:
[1] Archive them.
[2] Remove them from download if they feel a security issue is found until the aurthor fixes them. What would happen if GARS was released here and vB.org felt there were issues to warrent removing it from download. SAm the aurthor would not be involved anymore as aurthor to fix the issues. So what happens in that situation?

Which means they have the power over the scripts once there released here really!

Thats true, but it has been very obvious over the past six months or so that things have really changed around here since the "paid script service" was introduced. People are just not willing to give there help for free anymore like they used too. And because of this - people have started to lose interest in the site. It's just not the helpful site it once was where you could post a problem and get an answer the same day. To many people now see the paid script service as a way of making money and feel. Why offer free help anymore!

But the guy was a top coder, yes it was a real struggle for him on his own to support them. But he was in a different class of coder. I have to agree in saying I do not think it would be such a good idea to release his hacks here for free for a lot of reasons. I personally feel he should try to find a skilled coder who is willing to take over the projects, and perhaps come to some agreement were he gets a small percentage of the sales from the new owner for everyone sold.

Lets face it. It sounds like he needs the money.

Err, what is this 'paid script service' we introduced (six months ago ?) that you seem so obsessed about :confused:

Well maybe you have another word for it. Like Paid services etc

If you mean the Service Requests forum (Currently called Paid Requests I think) which is the only thing I can think of, that was introduced 4.5 years ago.

Most of the "good coders" I know build websites for people these days. Most of them don't have their own business, they just write code when requested assuming they're working for themselves.

What's happened to this community is there aren't enough teachers. There are too many new customers signing up here daily and there is no way we could teach them all the tricks of the trade. There is also the issue of people that simply don't want to learn but love to argue about things they don't fully understand.

I agree with Lizard King! I don't want his scripts to be abused and misused on this board. Everyone wants to take advantage of his family crisis so they can benefit from his work. I think this is wrong. I want these scripts to stay original. Not because I purchased them, but rather because I value the authors work and time.

I hate it how everyone wants them released here because of what he is going through. Everyone just wants to take advantage of this like it's some kind of opportunity for them. I only want the scripts I paid for. I don't expect anything more from the geek. All of you should be ashamed that you are pressing for this. :mad:

I only wish him, his family, and his company the best of luck. Personally, I don't mind if these scripts aren't ever released again. Though hopefully the geek comes up with a solution, even if it takes a year or more. ;)

Stop counting on his problems to benefit you. That is selfish and disrespectful. :down:

Agreed. Hopefully he just mothballs them for awhile to give himself time to deal with things and then look at it in a whole new light.

If you're trying to imply that I'm trying to do that you're wrong. Heck I've probably got half of his software laying around on my HDD somewhere, multiple people have asked me to tweak it for them in the past (or integrate it with their site, GARs begin the main one) and most of the time the first thing I do is dump their php files and database on one of my local work stations.

I want to build on top of what he's already done. I want to improve his work and put my own spin on it and I want to be able to release it to you all so you can use it, extend it, hack it, learn from it, whatever.

Honestly I'm getting sick of these arguments over nothing. I'm starting to think a few of you are really nuts, crazy, not right in the head. But then again you probably think the same thing about me.

I shouldn't even be replying to this but I will not let this one go. You think I'm some low-life? Let me tell you something. Where I come from family is still the most important thing in this world.

You think I'm trying to pressure him into releasing his work here? News flash; I'm just letting him know I'd appreciate it if he did and I'd probably keep an eye on his work and make sure it gets ported in the future. I'm trying to help you and help him! But no, you have to shoot your mouth off because everyone wants to jump on the "vB.org ruins good hacks" bandwagon this week.

You've struck a nerve with me (and anyone that thinks the same way as you is included). But don't worry about it, I don't really care, it's just the internet and this is just a message board.

Eh I suppose this is the reaction you wanted. You want me to go make an ass out of myself so my opinion looks like the "bad one". I'm mostly a lone in my opinion but you'll notice I tend to stick to it. ;) I don't hop on bandwagons...

O and BTW I already have most of his software and I'm not a customer. You see I have customers as well, customers that use his software and love it. I work with his software just about everyday! Right now I'm doing heavy modification to GARs for a client and I would like to release it to the community. Right now I can't but if The Geek decided to release his work here under a friendly license I could.

That's up to him and I'm not pestering him over it. I'm not sending him PMs, IMs, e-mails, nor am I holding a gun to his head and forcing him to read this thread.

Think before you post. Some of us still aren't afraid to express our opinion even if it isn't the popular one.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go to bed. Us working people have to be up at 7am.

I was talking about this announcement here (From December 2006):
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=102471

After that was announced, a lot of coders said they would no longer offer free support anymore because the site was adding a commercial side to it. But those comments were mostly said in another thread that was posted before that announcement, which you used as a test bed for feedback on the idea first.

I wouldn't take it as a personal insult aimed at yourself Brad, that he means your going to rip SAMS code off to sell it under another name. I think Lizard King in talking about other people here in general taking advantage if its released for Free. And lets face it, if it happened were a person ripped it of to sell. vB.org will take their usual stance of not wanting to get involved in the matter like they always do. Thats why this is the wrong place to release them.

But at the end of the day, it's SAMS choice, he's not stupid and he most know this could happen, no matter what site he decides to release them on for free. Especially seeing as GARS is a popular hack for sale.

I feel the same way as others, I think he should hang on for a while until his personal life gets more sorted. Then make a more sensible decision, instead of a rash one. Maybe even consider approaching another coder to take over from him to sell the hacks and support them, just paying himself a small percentage of the sale. So he still gets something for his work over the years.

That is nothing more than an old discussion thread (from December 2005 btw, not 2006) - and there is currently no commercial directory (or section) on vbulletin.org.

Even if we eventually have a commercial directory, it will have nothing to do with people providing support for freely released modifications. A commercial directory is simply a list of places that commercial scripts (e.g. Gars, vblogetin) can be obtained.

Wow, this is not what I expected from you. Btw, I wasn't aiming my post towards you. In all actuality I was speaking in a general manner. Meaning my post was aimed at anyone who wants to take advantage of his crisis. Brad, no hard feelings. I still think your cool, and your pizza mod is the best :)

Though let me be more specific.

If you (meaning anyone on this forum) are counting on having his mods posted here due to his current problems, then you are in the wrong.

I totally agree. Personally, I would NEVER release those scripts to vb.org site. Instead I would find a decent software developer and sell them to him, for a modic price. Sam should open an auction thread on his site, related to this issue. I hope, those scripts will never end up here (If you are smart, you understand what I mean).

I think an advanced script like GARS needs a dedicated developer that can provide the support it deserves. An auction would probably not be optimal to find optimal support for it. Better find the best candidate and sell to that developer. Or instead of selling, ask for a sales commission.

Lets get a couple of things straightened out here (speaking as a Customer not as a Staff member):

This site is not dieing in any way, shape or form as far as I can see - I've been here quite a bit longer than all of you negative and arguementative people so far in this thread, and I can tell you that I actually think that this site has progressed further than I ever thought possible 5 years ago...

Coders come and go, it's a part of life - Some good ones have gone, and some good ones are yet to come... Instead of moaning and bringing down the rest of the Community with you, be pro-active... Teach someone to code how you think it should be done... Or better yet, if you know so well how to be the perfect coder, why don't you take over development should it come to vB.org and perfect and maintain it?

As far as I understand it, it's not a case of "wanting", more a case of "legally being able to"...

Things aren't always as black and white as "right and wrong"... vBulletin.org is not the Judge or the Jury in a dispute like that, and the majority of the time not even the Executioner, so please, get your facts straight before you present them...

And finally; I wish The Geek and his family well :)

Chris

But this has nothing to do with being "negative" or "argumentative" like you claim. Where just stating a fact that this site is just not the same as it used to be, sorry if you don't like that! All because "YOU" claim thats not the case, doesn't mean your right and we're are all wrong. If you feel the site is still the same as it used to be, OK you think that!

Like others, I hardly come and post much these days unlike before. All I mainly do now is just read a few threads when I'm bored and post very little back to them. Mainly because I started to notice a while ago that very little help was forth coming to problems posted here when asking for help and advice. This was not the case a year or more ago. And was the reason why it was a better community back then which would entice you to make posts.

Sorry, but you kind of lose interest when you know your post are just going to fall on deaf ears all the time. Lately I've seen may questions posted by members, and they even bump their own threads to try and get replies. And weeks later they still have no replies. Open your eyes, if you cannot see this is a big reason for people losing interest here now something is seriously wrong. It's not rocket science!

Is this helpful?

Fact: [fakt]
–noun
1.something that actually exists; reality; truth: Your fears have no basis in fact.
2.something known to exist or to have happened: Space travel is now a fact.
3.a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true: Scientists gather facts about plant growth.
4.something said to be true or supposed to have happened: The facts given by the witness are highly questionable.

Opinion: [uh-pin-yuhn]
–noun
1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.
3.the formal expression of a professional judgment: to ask for a second medical opinion.

Just to say, this is seriously just another 'The sky is falling! Forum collapsing!' post that basically comes every few months/years with warnings that the forum is spiralling out of control, failing, too much fighting, staff disagreement, forum will die, etc. And every single time it's proven wrong.

Don't take what I said as a worthless opinion, as I have seen it happen on many, many forums. Threats of mass member exodus, leaving plans, forums being said to be on the brink of collapse and spin offs forming. But as said on another forum as a description, life just goes on as normal.

Either way, I personally don't care if the mods get released here. If they do, good. More people (including maybe myself) can get to try them out than with them as paid modifications. If not, fine. It's up to the author, and whatever choice they make is probably the right one.

And with that said, we are back where we started.

It is not up to us to decide how he will continue his modifications, nor where or by whom that will be. If he wants to release them on vBulletin.org, then that is fine, he will always be welcome to do so and he knows that. If he decides to that somewhere else, then that is also fine as the choice is up to him and nobody else.

Closing thread.