vBSEO's weaknesses - why we need an alternative.
 

Hello all,

Although much of vBSEO looks good, we are looking for an alternative to vBSEO because of its weaknesses. Specifically, we would like to have all of the same functionality, but we need the following:

1. vBSEO is encrypted so that if it conflicts with the other hacks that we have installed, it is impossible to modify the code in order to resolve a conflict.

2. If and when a security problem is discovered with vBSEO's encrypted code, we cannot fix it and our forums could be open to exploit.

3. Because the vBSEO license requires that you link back to them on every single page of your site, it is easy for anyone to search for vBSEO installations and exploit them.

4. vBSEO's requirement that you have an outbound link to them on every single page of your site, dilutes your own brand and bleeds PageRank from you to them and thereby negatively impacts your search engine positioning - something that the software was designed to do just the opposite of.

We approached vBSEO about paying extra for an unencrypted version without the onerous license requirement, but they were unreceptive, so we don't think that this would be a good solution for a large, highly hacked forum. Any alternatives that you might suggest would be most appreciated. Many thanks in advance!

1. vBSEO is known to work with all vBulletin modifications released to date, if you have a custom mod created, then it should be that programmer who should program around vBSEO.

2. Do you go and fix vBulletins security flaws by manually updating every file? Didnt think you did. Simply upload the new version they release, and problem solved.

3. The same can be true for searching for vBulletin, and any other peice of web software

4. Not really, especially that since that link as the rel="nofollow" atribute to it.

There are currently two known SEO hacks here, vRewrite which is limited in options, doesnt receive much support and has known bugs. Then there was just one released recently called Zoints SEO which i havent followed or tried so i can not comment.

Good luck on your search for a free modification with half the features of vBSEO, let alone all of them.

4. The copyright has 8+ options for display, half of which are text only (no link).

They have fixed every single conflict I have ever had with a clients mods.

That's why they and every single other company have a suport site to report bugs. Do you fix Microsofts bugs? uhuh

There are many diferent options available in the license.

You repeate #3.

That whole malarky on page rank leakage is a myth, and an ilogical one at that. If it were indeed true, then every single directory listing, including DMOZ, Yahoo and joeAnt would all have a page rank of 0. They do not. Google does not punish you for making it easier for them to crawl the web. If you want to get into a debate on that then go over to digitalpoint or somewhere similar and throw your mud.

This argument is tired. As with any company, they will change their business strategies when and how they see fit.

you wont find any better seo enhancement then vbseo, it has done wonders for my site. The encryption was a little concern for myself at first, but I have had no problems, and when I do the support staff will have a solution or a fix in no time at all.

as for the link, it can be text, and in the future they will have branding free licenses, but that wont be for a while, but it dont matter as you can have rel="nofollow" or a text link or an image for that matter.

the sooner you get vbseo installed the sooner your site will be reaping the benefits.

Hope that helps.

Let me preface my comments by saying I am a vBSEO user and very happy to be one. It was one of the best decisions I made concerning my vBulletin forums -- and my whole site.

I am so tired of the vBSEO fans making rancorous and snide remarks to people who have a difference of opinion about vBSEO or SEO in general. It's not necessary to add your verbal jabs in order to answer the questions at hand. You do a disservice to vBSEO and its developers and staff. Your sanctimonious attitude and sarcastic remarks are an embarrassment.

All of your facts concerning the issues Caliber has may be correct, but the manner in which you express them could turn a fence sitting potential customer away. Please consider your statements before typing them for all to see.

Caliber, I apologize for my fellow vBSEO users' ill manners. It is not how all of us react to those who have their objections to the script. If you have questions regarding the ability of vBSEO to address any conflicts with other hacks, security issues that may crop up or the options for honoring the license agreement, please do not hesitate to bring them up at the vBSEO forums. I am quite sure you will get answers and I think you will be treated like the important guest you are. At the very least, you may discover other options to your SEO needs.

R'gards,

Jim

I think I know the answer to your needs... Zoints SEO!

(It's open source, which means guess what? It's FREE!) Also damn good IMO and I own several communities.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=127336

:)

No one here has done anything but answer this person using a second acounts jabs and proclamations regarding VBSEO. We have every right in the world to reply. Just like you have the right to make that same old post you made that you have made on other sites as well.

Get off your throne Grumpy.

Hey guys,

I apologize if I upset some of you. My intention was not to ruffle any feathers.

As I said in my initial post, vBSEO looks really good and we would pay more (a whole lot more) for a non-branded and unencrypted version. We run a very large forum with 5000 consecutive users at peak times, and these two issues are deal breakers for the developers on our staff. Yes, we do have many custom hacks that we developed ourselves.

Thank you for the other suggestions, we will look into them. And again I apologize if I upset some of you.

Zoints SEO is your best bet. Seems to slow down loading time on a few of the sites I have seen using them though.

ANY SEO script that utilizes mod_rewrite will slow loading time. That is directly caused by the usage of mod_rewrite. That's part of the reason Zoints SEO also has a means to insert keywords in URL without the use of mod_rewrite.

You can look at the code of Zoints SEO yourself. It is very well written and optimized.

Hi Caliber,

Here's some feedback for each of your key points:

1. As some have stated, vBSEO is compatible with almost all major plugins. From time to time there have been small issues reported that are immediately corrected by dev. We take a non-intrusive approach to prevent these conflicts from occurring, and even have a CRR module (Custom Rewrite Rules) to allow you to integrate vBSEO with your other hacks, including converting many of their URLs from dynamic to static versions.

2. There have been no security exploits ever demonstrated with vBSEO code. In fact, keeping our code encrypted, helps prevent many developers from evaluating the code for exploits. I can assure you, we take security very seriously, and security auditing is a part of our internal testing procedure. This is also an area that our pre-release (live forum testing) team monitors very closely.

3. There are no known vBSEO exploits, although it has been reported that Google and other search engines perform massive exploitation of vBSEO-enabled forums by indexing and ranking huge portions of your content. ;)

4. At this time we do require a *vBSEO branding notice* to be included. However, (a) rel=nofollow is applied on all interior page links preventing Google PageRank leak from becoming an issue, and (b) we provide un-linked options for you to choose from in your vBSEO configuration file. Recently, the team has been in discussions regarding our copyright policy, based on user feedback. Policy revisions will be announced in the near future.

We power many large and highly hacked forums without issue. :)

mod_rewrite jumps into the middle for some processing between a web browser (i.e.) request for a particular forum page and the server's response, so there is a very small performance impact. You will notice a higher impact if you are running on a server that is already over taxed in terms of resource usage. This is often the case if you are (a) on a shared webhost that is overrun with an excessive # of accounts on 1 server, or (b) your forum is extremely popular and running near its full capacity (FYI, If you're getting so much traffic that you need a new server, congratulations on your success!). :)

FYI Mod_rewrite is responsible for mapping incoming content relevant URLs (i.e. URLs with keywords) to the standard .php version. However, keyword insertion is handled by a server side script that processes page content in real-time.

Every feature vBSEO has is first evaluated for performance impact. As a result, vBSEO has been tested and performed well on highly active forums with concurrent users in the 1000s, as well as more common concurrent usage rates. vBSEO 3.0 is the most light weight vBSEO version to date, even despite the important new features that we've added.

As we announced today at the vBSEO forum, expect some *big* news coming from vBSEO in the very near future. :) That's all I can divulge for now.

"Many developers". Let's be transparent here Joe. The encryption was cracked awhile back and anyone with the know-how to take advantage of exploits had the know-how to evaluate the code for exploits. I haven't kept up on the current means of encrypting vBSEO so I don't know if that has been cracked yet. Could you educate us on the current state?

With that said, nobody should pull the "vBSEO is encrypted so I can't evaluate it for exploits!" crap. All that is, is a BS means to attack vBSEO and their product. I would wager that 99.9% of the people who have uttered those words wouldn't know how to evaluate the vBSEO code for exploits even if it was open. Unfortunately, exploits happen. You can employ many of the best engineers in the world, have 3rd party security auditors, and take every other precaution you can, but in the end, bugs and exploits will arise. It is about how a company reacts when an exploit is found that people should comment on.

The vBSEO team is working hard to create a quality product. I'm sick of seeing them attacked by people who are either clueless or have ulterior motives. The more choice forum owners have, the better. And vBSEO is providing choice. Shame on anyone who disparages a company or individual with baseless statements.

"vBSEO is encrypted and I prefer not to use encrypted products on my forums" is fine. Other comments i'm seeing around the net reek of unprofessionalism, ulterior motives, lack of education, and/or simple immaturity. Just because forums empower you to speak your mind doesn't mean you should if all that is going to be uttered is garbage.

Indeed. I've been quite impressed with how little of a performance impact vBSEO has on forums. Kudos to you and your team for creating a well optimized product.

Good stuff. I like seeing this space heating up even if it means more competition for Zoints as it means community owners benefit. :) It looks like we're all going to have to keep an eye on those patent filings ;) First to 50 wins :D

Now that's good discussion. I wish everyone could be as level headed and well mannered. Hell, it even makes me wish I was and certainly makes me wonder if I have been all wrong about you, David. I'm not going to revisit any old threads to analyze my thoughts, but I think the next discussion about Zoints I would like the chance to start over.

R'gards,

Jim

This is an interesting thread.

I'm having a tough time deciding between vBSEO & Zoints.

Zoints negatives:

• I heard it was buggy
• I don't understand the motive. Is this a tool to boost the Zoint Network? If so, what are the disavantages to my website?
• Why lesser GPL, not just the GPL?

VBSEO negatives:

• I don't like their license agreement. Even if it's for silly reasons... why's it a white text on black background? What does "(FTD)" mean? What if I don't want to consent to the laws of Puerto Rico? Why hasn't it been updated in so long? What if I wanted to run a pornography forum?
• $149 is a lot of money. What happens if a free version does turn out to be better, or if Jelsoft makes SEO part of vBulletin?

Heh... this is not as simple as Wordpress, where SEO is already part of the system. That's the most unfortunate drawback of switching from Wordpress to vBulletin for my content management.

As far as i see zoints engineers are trying to solve every problem they had with their script. So i believe the bugs will be cleared out soon from zoints seo. I am really happy abouıt a good free seo hack released at vb.org and i wish all vb.org coders will work to ge zoints seo better.

For vBSEO you cannot run an adult content site with vBSEO. I believe Joe will respond better then me for the license agreement but i want to comment on vBSEO's price.

SEO is really an expensive thing. a regular vBulletin coder will charge you probably 10-20$ an hour but an SEO expert will charge you 70-80$ an hour. Because it requires hard work and you can have a return from your expenses you made to seo. 149$ is nothing while each other day you can start making more money from your board. I purchased vBSEO 7 month ago. The impact vBSEO did to my board cannot be explained. Only one example i had 21 k indexed pages at google then now i have more then 310 k.

It may sound expensive but you are also paying 160 for vBulletin why ? because it is a good quality product. vBSEO is even better then vBulletin because vbulletin wont help you making mopre money but vBSEO does ;)

What happens if a free version does turn out to be better, or if Jelsoft makes SEO part of vBulletin? also do you really expect this ? People expected for a cms or a gallery hack for so long time from vBulletin. If you really do please continue hoping that :D

So you had 21k of indexed pages, you made more posts and more got indexed. No proof vbseo had anything to do with it.

As far as hard work goes you can rewrite a php page into html with 3 lines in the htaccess file. Then you just have to fiddl eabout with a few things ;)

Early Zend and IonCube versions were decryptable by "those in the know". You are correct - An earlier version of vBSEO was circulated sans encryption on the darknet. Zend/ionCube have both been updated recently.

Although legal negotiations were required to close down one particular entity attempting to steal our code, the overall end result was positive.

We noticed a sharp decline in the number of *speculations* by posters that vBSEO could contain "backdoors" or malicious code. We know that once any developer who was interested in vBSEO actually saw the code, they realized that it wasn't just clean, it's was 100% pristine! :)

In this case, vBSEO is certainly NOT a gift-horse packaged with any internal surprises. No sir - all you get is thoroughbred, high octane, whitehat SEO solution that works! ;)

BTW It's really not very often that we discover a post from someone confused in this regard any more.

For clarity to all, I want to re-emphasize that vBSEO has never been reported to contain any exploits whatsoever. We have a perfect trackrecord, and this is something that our team is very proud of.

FYI We are planning to set aside some time to discuss the possibility of a non-encrypted or visible source code option for vBSEO. Whatever the decision, it will be announced to our forum members. Anyone interested can create an account on vBSEO to ensure you receive our email or PM announcements.


FYI

As per our Acceptable Usage Policy, pornographic forums are not eligible to install vBSEO. Apologies for the inconvenience.



Nick - you know better than that by now, I'm certain. :)

The only downfall of vBSEO :)

Ok, so you have told me millions of times that it's all down to SEO but there is no hard proof. But lets not continue this line of discussion, shall we :)

Seriously i don't want to get in arguement with you but my main idea stands. You are a joke to human kind.

do you even have vbseo? I'm earning triple the $$$ since I installed it on two of my forums. I plan to buy more as soon as I open more forums. vbseo has hundreds of features, not only mod_rewrite url's. I have a highly hacked forum and it's working very, very, very well. I also know many highly hacked forums that are working well, as for example: namepros.

Look who is the moderator of vbseo.com

Yah... but what does (FTB) mean?!
I spelt it wrong before.

• First Time Buyer
• For The Birds
• Fade To Black
• Forced To Buy

WTF LOL?! :)

How much does it cost to extend the software license?
$30 per year? $50 per year? $100? $150?

That's why I'm wondering about Zoints. Sure, vBSEO might be better now... but what happens in a year from now?

Will Zoints be just as good, but still free? :confused:
Will there be a horrible legal battle between Zoints and vBSEO? :rolleyes:
Will Puerto Rico finally become the 51st state? :D

That sounds great - we'll be the first to buy it when it comes out and if there is a non-branded option. Will this new version be available in the next couple of weeks and so we should wait for it, or will it be out so far into the future that we would be advised to try Zoints while you are waiting to make your decision?

Good stuff and I look forward to the improvements from both vBSEO and Zoints as both are run by very contientious, talented and forthright visionaries and the winners will always be the vb forum community :) My personal experience with vBSEO is very pleasing and my recent PR upgrade from 3 to 6 is icing on the cake ;) The true stat that translates to increased sales for me is uniques going up over 2000 in the first month vbseo was installed!

It's a shame ... I do not promote SEO simply because of it's "no branding" policy;
and, on some occasions the "no porn" policy.

I really like the SEO package; especially with the new features on the latest version. Great job by the way! :up:

When you decide to forego the "no branding" give me a holler. You will have a few sales. The encryption doesn't bother me but it does hinder sales.

--------

And to those interested, Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States. The major differences between it and the 50 states is it's taxation system and representation in the US Congress.


salud (cheers!)

thank goodness there is the Zoints SEO alternative. I'm a good guy who runs a legal business, but I've been refused purchase of vBSEO.

I will support Zoints from now on. Great to hear of them, since I had previously thought my only other option was vRewrite.

I love that it's also open source, free, & catching up quick :)

Would be nice to see the vb.org community continue caring and developing the zoints seo, sadly so far it seems not.

So far no one here has mentioned the third SEO option, Dana's SEO hack. It's free and best of all it actually works. It's also completely 100% encryption free, and you don't have to pay $150.00 to advertise those who made it! I'm sure in time Zoints will work out whatever bugs it might have. It's always great to see free, UNencrypted SEO options available for the community :)

Linky?! :bunny:

I searched for Dana... didn't find anything. :confused:

Probably means Dani.

www.daniweb.com I think.. try searching there for vBulletin mod_rewrite (or just google for that phrase, at last look, dani was on page one of the SERPs)

Well I don't ordinarily post links on a Monday, but I guess in this case I'll make an exception ;)

Here you go :)

2.2.2 of Zoints SEO was released late yesterday. As far as we know, it is a bug free release. There are some incompatibilies with current modifications on the market, but I don't expect that to last long.

And for the record, we like breasts (a lot) and don't feel it is our place to judge other aspects of human nature. Thus it would be our honor to be on forums with them.

Dani is a wicked smart gal. I haven't checked out her release in depth but i'm sure it's quality work. In fact, I got into forum SEO because of her. She released a content relevant url hack a LONG time ago. I think it was one of the first to ever be created. Her and KeithMCL got it working really good and I gave it a shot. My rankings in the SERPs shot up and I was hooked.

Everyone should take a look at what she's offering. It could very well be better than Zoints SEO in which case, kick us aside and do what is best for your forum. :)

We had the first submission of new code yesterday. A character replacement addition to Zoints SEO. I wanted to reach through the internet and hug the guy :D It'll need added to the admincp UI as it's done in file right now, but it was great to see as I was starting to get a little discouraged.

I just want to say, I had been waiting on that bug free release of Zoints SEO and I finally installed it yesterday on vB3.6.0. It installed flawlessly and was very easy to configure. I had content relevant URLs in no time. I'm using the recommended lines of code in the .htaccess cuz I am using mod rewrite.

Anyway, very glad to have it for zero cost and glad to see the source code as well. At this point I see no need to modify the source cuz it works everything I had wanted for my SEO.

I'm sure there's places to improve but it is totally doing everything I need right now. Thanks for that stable free release. My hats off to you DChapman for putting in the time for this :)

I am also supporting the zoints community too, just because it's another great project with lots of promise!

Hey DChapman,

Thanks for the update. We still run VB 3.0 due to all our custom work. Will you software work with VB 3.0? FYI, we have a very good developer on staff who can help.

Thanks!

Apparently, there are exceptions to this rule if you convince the right people on vBSEO staff to make an exception for your adult site (or just look the other way).

example violation: http://www.eroportal.org/index.php

FYI

Do you think vBSEO actively monitors every site that runs their script? Did you report this violation, or are you bringing it up here out of spite? Your look the other way link gave no indication that they do and there wasn't any mention of the site in question here. Instead of stirring the pot, why don't you have a discussion with vBSEO about the matter instead of bringing your gripe to a forum that can do nothing about it except be the soapbox you can stand on. Maybe that's all you really care about.

Jim

Dude, read the background within that link (both pre & post), and drop your suppositions. I have talked this policy over with the vBSEO staff & reported it to them. This is not an overlooked incident and they were politely informed (by me & someone else) of this one specific case/site which is also in the user's profile of that thread I linked to. Basically (once again), you just have to read the background before jumping to conclusions.

vBSEO staff also explained to me clearly (in various professional PMs between myself and them & also publicly) that they don't budge on their acceptable use policies (AUP) and i believed them.

My previous post was an FYI for reader's sake regarding the holes in that AUP, which can viewed as a weakness. Plus it was clarification to an inaccurate point made in someone's post about no adult content, which I quoted in case u forgot to read that as well.

I wasn't attacking anybody or any company, so take your impolite lapdog attitude and tone it down please Yimbo:
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2006/10/7.jpg

You've apparently got a history of really rude statements and I'd appreciate it if you don't pull that with me.

-thx

Thank you Tyler D for posted your information. Some of us DO appreciate it ;)

...and try not to let the "Stepford vbseo" clan get to you :p