Members Helping Members
 

Hello, I understand that some of you are frustrated and feel underappreciated. The staff here have taken notice and they are working feverishly to fix this. What I would like to do is relay some of the information to you as this is your community.

When this site was first conceived, the addon authors went out of their way to help others. They didn't look down on you if you didn't know PHP and thought that it was against the vBulletin philosophy to do so. vBulletin is created in a way where you do not need to know how to write PHP code or run a MySQL Query. A lot of functionality is geared towards non-technical people. Without specific numbers, I would say 30% of all new customers know little more than how to use a web browser on their computers.

In order to support these customers, this site needs to get back to a member-helping-members mentality. Taking your hacks commercial might help line your pockets but it doesn't help this community or anyone else. Now, don't get me wrong here... I understand the need to make a buck in the modern world. In a true community though people help others. Answer questions, provide articles and tutorials. Help each other. Who knows, but that person who knows absolutely no PHP code might be an awesome accountant or publicist that can help you down the road. Everyone is more than a handle and a userid. Likewise if you utilize an addon and find it useful then thank the author and click the install button. It is a nice courtesy. The mentality of coders vs. non-coders has to end.

Everyone with a vBulletin license has a right to be here. Taking your toys and storming out of the park is not the way to handle the situation. Discussing it like mature people is. I know that things move slowly on this site and there are many reasons for that. Hopefully that will change in the near future. There are several discussions going on now amongst the staff regarding this and other issues with the site. As more becomes known, we will pass the information on to you.

Up until now you haven't had an active role in developing this community. Currently the staff is being restructured with defined roles. This will also open up new staff positions. Once the new staff structure is in place, the different positions will act as liaisons to get work done on the site. This can include new styles, new functionality or redesigning existing functionality. Different projects will be outlines and individual projects will be worked on similar to an open source methodology with the sharing of ideas among peers.
So in short, I ask that you bear with the staff here for a while longer. They are striving to work in the community's best interest.

While I am at it, I would like to ask that those coders that have removed their modifications to please return them and stick with us a bit longer. With your cooperation, the summer of 2006 will see some changes on this site.

As more information becomes available it will be posted. In fact, I hope to have some information for you next week. Until then please work with the staff instead of against them. They want what is best for this site as much as you do.

Hear Hear

Thank you, getting back to this type of a "helping" mentality is good for all parties involved.

Thanks for the update :D

hey im all for helping anyone!

i'm real new here (barely 2 months) and i'm just learning the ways of vbulletin and php as a whole. i try to put in my 2 cents on the areas i know when someone has a problem and i appreciate the help i get form the coders/designers/experts/etc. if it wasn't for this site and all the people on it, then i'd be using a stock, out of the box vbulletin site. i hope to give more back as i learn more as well. thanks to the staff for noticing other's concerns and taking action so we can all stick around and help each other make our respective sites individual successes

It's going to take a lot more than a staff restructure to change the general feeling in the community. It's going to need a change in their mentality.

And to the new mods here, don't fall victim to the ego which has consumed so many of the staff members here, myself included for a while.

With that said Wayne, I will return to help and support the community with what you guys have taught me in the past. I feel that my thread had arose some major hell and I feel bad for it. I hope no one thinks badly about me now, but I was just trying to express how I felt. Anyways, I'm happy to hear that this is taking place and I would like to help in anyway possiable. I'll start with releasing and supporting my hacks again.

How about giving vBCast is own forum like what was agreed on by all the staff here except the one person that ran their mouth to add fuel to the fire, Zach.

We didn't want to start doing BBCast and talk about all the bulletin softwares, as we prefer vbulletin, but after being dragged through the dirt for so long.

I love how we were told to start our own board for a show that is dedicated to your software that we work sooo hard on.

Corrie, nothing personal. But your not helping any more if your just going to name names and point fingers when you post. Thats what this thread is trying to prevent. :)

Funny that you say that... You know you will never become a mod because you have vbhackers.....

These points stuck out for me. Your post was well articulated, Wayne.

Is it better if it comes from me?:cool:
Fore the record, i see your point.
I am very happy to read this, Wayne Luke.

Corrie,

This thread is to set a positive attitude here. Your post doesn't help in this.

Keep this thread a general thread about how to improve the attitude here on the board, and refrain yourself from making statements about other people.

Thank you.

As a pure non-coder, and a truly php-challenged user, I greatly appreciate the work that everyone here does.
It really makes me happy when I can install something and get it to work the way the designer intended. And sometimes that doesn't work out, and I am inpressed with the help I get here. I don't post much, but I come here a lot to read and learn.
This is really a fabulous community.
Often when I install mods, I will show friends and say "can you beleive how terrific this new tool and, and even better, can you beleive it is free".
I really enjoy this site and hope all of the exisiting talented coders stay and nuture the upcoming folks.

Let me say, i question your methods, but apart from that i have had always a good contact to you, and hope that this will go on. So let's move on! :)

no bad feelings at all! On the contrary, your thread helped to bring about real change here. I, for one, am glad you spoke out.

well i hope this will improve everything around here :)
one thing for sure i'll will still support who ever need any

I'd love to help the other members in here so no worries, Master! :)

good post :)

i help out when i can :)

That is pure crap and you know it Wayne.

I'm the man that your so called community of so called helpful staff ganged up on and removed the work of because of one line of code once. I can cite many other examples of your staff acting like jerks with your support. Shall I go on?

Don't shove down my throat that we need to act a certain way. You and your staff have set the tone by example. Your little post there will do nothing to change things here. You have to change first and your posts make it clear that will never happen.

You come out of the wood work when your little henchmen fail to clean up their messes and it happens too frequently. Either get invoilved everyday, or get out completely. Your form of management has failed the ORG time and time again.

Please stop it with your community concern, your care about your little click and their self serving opportunities only.

Noppid, on all levels (Jelsoft/Staff/Coders/regular members) people are working at the moment to find suggestions to make some radical changes to make this a better place in the future.

I am sure your suggestions will be taken into consideration when things are discussed.

I am not managing this site and I never have. I am a liaison between this site and Jelsoft. I help to pass information both ways. If people have a problem with the staff, then they need to contact me directly.

If an addon is removed, it is because it was determined to be in the best interest of Jelsoft's customers as a whole. If you felt that was unjust then you should have made your case directly to me and explained why instead of doing nothing but complaining on the site. It is as simple as that.

The direct management of the site is run by the volunteers here. The goal was and still is to build a community. Something which never really happened here. Otherwise there wouldn't be arguments in this thread. It wasn't some sort of demand and I feel those complaining in this thread didn't read the entire thing.

Quite frankly if you are that dissatisfied with the site Noppid, I would prefer that you not participate at all instead of doing nothing but spreading hatred and vitriole. It is time for people to let the past go and rebuild for the future.

I long ago stopped making suggestions after being told the same thing many times in the past, sir. That is why myself and many other's have resorted to this form of force change by embarressment tactic I'd venture to guess.

It serves two purposes, we vent and maybe get an importantant message out. I will say that the ORG has been very indulgent in entertaining it. However, our tactics nor anyone in any branch of the internal staff have been able to reign in the young and arrogant within your organization. You can be certain we play off those attitudes as I noted in my post to Wayne.

So I will not hold my breath while the internal wheels turn. I've seen the tread wearing for a long time on that wheel.

Thank you for the polite reply.

Well, coming in and micro managing is not something you do well. A simple search will prove that.

Don't make this about me. That is the pinicle of this whole mess Wanye and when you pick on me personally, you are part of the problem. I have an obligation to pick on you and will continue to exercise it as long as I feel you do a lousy job.

As for staying away, that statement makes it obvious that you are not involved enough in the operations you are responsible to Jelsoft for. If you were doing your job, you'd know I don't hang out here.

So do us all a favor, like I said in the first post, lead by example and clean up your act. If you are supposed to be a liaison, at least take the initiative to know what you are working with rather then come in here once every three months or so to put out a fire while you have no idea of the big picture. Treat everyone with respect, even if they disagree with you.

You can't really upset me much more then you have in the past. I deal with it fine. But if you want to make me your huckleberry, have at it. I can take it.

However, this being your house, I don't expect you to allow it. It's more likely you'll follow suite of those that took their ball and left by removing the topic at some point.

But have no fear, I've wasted enough time on this matter and will move on. I just wanted the historical foot note.

Good luck.

Noppid, if you have problems with how a Moderator handles something, you put your case in the hands of an Admin.
If you feel that the Admins are also not listening to you, contact the Jelsoft liason, ie Wayne.
If you have complaints about him, contact his boss, ie. Kier.

Please stop fighting out your personal historical differences on the board. Especially if been asked to keep this thread dedicated to positive input to change things for the better in the future.

You state you don't hang out here anymore, if that is the case, then i don't see why you feel so strong about making points in a thread about the future of this site.

<i>*Goes back to the original post*</i>

I'm new to vB.org, and struggled with basic HTML when I tried learning it. I dont even want to attempt PHP with my lack of knowledge of everything else. However, I like to think that people here do help others.

Even with no coding knowledge, I can install a hack/modification and get it working. I can put all of the files in the right place and then work out how to actually use the mod. That is better than some fresh newbies to the software, so if someone asks something that sounds stupid and "n00bish" to the coders, I will actually help out, even if it means actually installing a hack that I wouldnt use on a test site, just to be friendly. We were all in the same boat at some time in our pasts, so it feels right to go full cycle (being new getting help, learning from others, learning to code, making the first mod then helping others who are new to the game).

As has been said (I think), communities help each other and this is a community.

Marco - Wayne - The tone and attitude in your posts is a big part of what I think is the problem around here. You just told Noppid to keep his opinions to himself because it doesnt fit in what you want to accomplish.

This is exactly the kind of attitude that is making .org into something people are complaining about. Instead of trying to mend fences, your telling him his opinion isnt important. How does that help?

Is this how you felt when LiveWire made his original post?

I am not trying to jump on you guys, I am only trying to illustrate what I see as one of the problems. Instead, I want to suggest that you ask yourself why Noppid and others feel this way.

I belive it's more of the fact that it is not on topic with this thread. From what I can see, Noppids problems seem to be on a personal level, rather than on a global level (like the current issues raised), however, as I don't know the full story, I'm not permitted to make any judgements or statements. Noppid, as Marco pointed out, there is a hierarchy of whom you can contact if you feel you are being treated unfairly.

Well, dont you think this could have been handled in PM instead of publically slapping him down - twice?

See, it makes people afraid to say whats really on their mind. Not only Noppid, but also others that might read. Livewire felt it necessary to make the statement - "I hope no one thinks badly about me now, but I was just trying to express how I felt." - These are all indicators.

Im not trying to jump on the staff or anyone else here. I am only trying to illustrate what I see as one of the problems.

good post wayne

Hmmm.... I think the reason Zachery is rather not happy with you is because that time you called him and impersonated ME and tried to get vBulletin 3.6.x information out of him. I think that's very immature and not worth you getting anything really from Jelsoft.

I remember hearing about that. teehee

Thanks for the update. I look forward on seeing things return to normal.

I said if he was that unhappy, then maybe he should look elsewhere. If there had been a suggestion in his post instead of a personal attack then I would listen.

I honestly don't have any problem with him or anyone else on this site. If something happens, it is not done for personal reasons.

I've tried to help out those that I can. and even tho I've used vb almost 2 years now I still don't know 1/2 of what some of the coders know..

all I know is that I'm very appreciative of this site and its resources..

-loco

Thanks for the post, hopefully you'll actually bring substantial changes,
cause it's no longer possible to peacefully reside on this site. :(

this can be solved if everyone just unzipped their pants, got a ruler and took a picture, then we'd all know who is the biggest prick :) hehe

Thanks for saying that Wayne, this site is all about members helping members and that is what a lot of people around here seem to have forgotten.

I said in a previous post (Erwin stepping down) that I have not posted because I did not want to add oil to the flames, there seemed to be no point because the people involved seemed to have forgotten that one fact, that we are a group of people (all of use vB admins) that have come together to help each other out.

One of the reasons I participate here and give a little back too is because of the amount of help and knowledge I have gotten from this site, I only ever use the official site for my updates or occationally to help out a little.

For a while now, things have been spiralling out of control, and fingers are pointing everywhere. What we should be doing in my opinion is seeing what needs to be done to fix it and just fix it, recriminations and fingerpointing do not help at all, we all know what the situation is, what we need to do if fix the problems, and hopefully what Wayne and the staff here have said are followed by positive actions to rectifiy the problems here.

It really should not have gotten to the stage where coders are removing modifications and admins are stepping down, but saying that we need to move forward and do so positively.

I think the finger pointing has had it's day and I for one am fed up of it, we need to move forward from it and get on with making this site what it was a couple of years ago, a place where members help members, and not members demanding things and thinking it is their god given right to have them straight away is also an attitude I would like us all to move away from too.

If a member helps you out, it common courtesy to thank them for the effort they put into helping you out. Also remember if a hack author supports his hack or not the choice is up to them, they have gone to a lot of effort to give to you in the first place, asking nicely for support will get a better response than demanding support and being rude about it.

Conversely, hack authors should not be rude or put down members because they don't know what they are doing (remember we were all newbies once, and not all of us can code), I know it can get frustrating but blowing of members who require help does not help maintain a healthy attitude on these forums and we are here after all to help members out, are we not??? (as well as getting helped out ourselves and forming new friendships and associations).

I think I have used up more than my 2c worth, but have hopefully put me view across on how this forum has nearly lost it primary focus, and that is to help members help themselves and others.

I have seen some things go on here that I certainly do not agree with by staff and by users. The vB.org/JelSoft team seems to be in here getting things changed. The only people getting hurt now are the people that utilize the modifications here that are being pulled as well as those that have (until now) had a very good outlook on this site and those that are now stirring up more trouble.

Let the process work. Don't be hasty and remove hacks unnecessarily. If you have a problem with how things have happened in the past, PM the issues to the respective persons, but don't rehash problems that have already outlasted their original reason. You will only be doing yourself continued disservice to your own respectability... whether it be staff or otherwise.

(... now I wait for the flames... Bar-B-Que anyone?)

Being a somewhat... challenged PHP user, the help that the community provides myself and others with is what keeps us coming again and again. I complete agree with you Wayne -- and appreciate the update. I'm sure I speak for the rest of the community when I say that we eagerly await the brand-spanking new vB.org.