To everyone
 

To all members, coders, and staff

I've not been online much the last few days as I have been working on some important tasks, but I have come online this morning and felt I had to say something, and something that wouldn't get lost in and amongst one of the angry threads that are going on, so here it is.

I'm very dissapointed with the state of things that have happened over the weekend.

Yes, people's tempers are flared, I understand that, but the big question is why are you complaining and fighting with each other?

There are issues that have been raised, most of them in the wrong way, which has caused all this upset.

I'm fed up with all the fighting, and it is time for everyone to take a chill pill.

This site, it is only a site. Yes, it is a vBulletin resource site, but it is still only a site. The majority of people here have their own sites to run and so know about how things work. A suggestion is made, the staff discuss it, and it can take a while for a decision to be made. Threads get closed, deleted, whatever, but this is nothing that any mod or admin would do on their own site if things were getting out of hand.

Some people are unhappy. That's fine, but I suggest to you all that if you are reacting purely on anger, then you should not be posting or making any rash decisions that you come to regret when you have cooled down. If you feel that you have had enough of the site, then leave. No-one is forcing you to be here.

This site has evolved from the 'Chen Days' and while those who remember them (I don't) feel that the site has moved in the wrong direction, there are others who just know the site in the current days. An important thing here, is that you can't live in the past, as the past has gone. You can reminiss(sp?) all you like, but without constructive feedback, things will stay the same, or get stupid like they have now.

If you have an issue with a staff member, take it up with one of the admins (Brad, Erwin, or Xenon) in private. If you have an issue with a post by someone, use the report post function and explain why you are reporting it. Making public complaints about people just increases tensions.

Every single person here comes here of their own free will, and voluntarily. Those who can support others do so, those who don't have their reasons. There will always be more people needing support than giving it, as that is the nature of a resources site. Think about it logically. When you ring tech support for your ISP because your internet isn't working, 9 times out of 10 you will be placed in a queue. The reason for that is the exact same reason as not always getting instant support here. Demand outstrips supply.

While some coders and non-coders try and assist where ever possible, including with other peoples hacks, there will always be those who don't. It's a fact of life.

No-one is above anyone else. It doesn't matter what your user title is, if you have a colored or bold username, everyone on this site is equal. We are all customers of Jelsoft. There are some people who think that they are better than the rest of us, but that isn't the case. Yes, some people can write intricate codes and some people do great designs and styles. But there are others who are learning, or are happy that there are people who can do this as it is outside their skills or interests.

The important thing with a site of this size, the same as it is with a much smaller site, is that everyone supports and respects each other. If everyone could just stop fighting for a few minutes and think seriously about what they want to achieve, then it will be an improvement. A consise list of improvements that are wanted by the majority will get a lot more attention from the staff than suggestions scattered to the winds. Again, that is a fact of life. Think of it like making a business proposal in the real world. Which is more professional: a lot of people shouting and screaming like an angry mob all wanting different things, but no-one being able to make themselves heard for all the noise; or a calm well structured meeting between a few members who have had items submitted to them and the people in charge?

I know for a fact that there will be some who will react badly to this post, but honestly, if you are that angry, then go out for a walk and clear your head. Despite what you may think or feel, the site will still be here. It continuously evolves and people come and go. If you dislike it that much and are not prepared to be rational or productive, then again I say leave, but leave quietly. If you decide to remove your modifications then be prepared for the threads to be deleted. It doesn't matter how helpful a thread is, if there is no code to go with it, then it is useless as the help is related to a hack that no longer exists.

This is my last, and only, post on the matter, and I hope that you give it some consideration. You are free to disagree with me, but instead of making a fuss, just make use of the ignore list function. I don't have a problem with having people ignoring me, the same as I have my own ignore list with people on who I find that I cannot agree with. That is the whole reason that vBulletin has an ignore list function.

Lets try and keep this rational, subjective, and constructive.

Thank you for reading. You did well to get to the end.

Kerry-Anne

Not this user. :)

well said Kerry-Anne! I've nothing to add other than I think you have summed up the sentiments of most users here!

YES! very very well said!

Don't you just love her? ;)

That's one part I cannot agree with - if an author removes their code from the thread then it doesn't remove it from peoples forums, the hack does still exist, and those people who have it installed would probably like to refer back to it. :)

Paul, seriously, how often did you notice that someone actually read the hack thread (with the exception of the occasional 1 or 2 page threads). The read the description, andimmediate continue to post their problem without even checking if it might already has been answered.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying, but I have no data on how many people read a thread compared to how many don't - we will only ever see the ones who don't as they are the ones that ask questions - the rest, read, find what they want, and leave.

Such empty threads will not help now or in the long run. If a mod is no longer available that's the choice of the author or the collective agreement of staff. I see no point in leaving the mod data around.

If a user is having problems with a "removed mod" they can always post their question in one of our forums. We will never leave them empty handed.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the cause of the recent problems - it really should not be about whether you (the staff in general) see the point - but whether the members see the point, they are the ones who the site is here for. :)

Some of us are lucky, we can mostly fix problems we have with other peoples hacks ourselves - most are not this lucky and need to refer back. An archive of old threads is a far more sensible idea than wholesale deletion.

On the contrary, we ARE thinking of the members.

Maybe I missed a whole load of posts then ? but all the ones I've read from members (except the first post of this thread) seem to be against deleting them.

Me too.

No we cannot. I had many mods go crazy on me in the 3.0 days and the author would vanish. I'd post for help in the PHP/MySQL forum or General Modification dicussion forum and would get told to go to the hack thread. No member has said "Yes! Delete those threads!"

I respect what you've said here, peterska2. While I read the entire post and agreed with many points, this one stands out though and bears addressing:

Just because I disagree with someone wouldn't be a reason to ignore them; quite the contrary, actually.

Hearing differing viewpoints, talking about them and hashing out a compromise that makes the most people happy, is how a community betters itself and makes progress. I accept the reality that the world doesn't revolve around me (in fact, I may even be wrong) and that the concerns of many need to be taken into consideration. So the airing and reception of all viewpoints is appreciated.

I rarely (if ever) use the ignore list, and if I did it would be because that user is just a troll, or a child looking for attention. Not merely because I "cannot agree" with them.



That said... the fact that I, as a member of this site, who has benefited from some of the major hacks available here, can no longer refer to hundreds of bookmarks with helpful information about those hacks, simply because the hack author decided to take the files down, is a silly, hurtful vb.org policy. There is valuable information in there that users could refer to and learn from. Troubleshoot our own problems. Expand our knowledge set. Isn't that the whole point?

Personally, I read every post in a thread before asking a question. I do my best to help myself. What this move does is show me I am wasting my time. I should just be a lemming, and post without any concern for what's been covered before, as it might be deleted at any time.

Many of JumpD's hacks weren't tiny template edits. ArticleBot, and the Live Feedback System were pretty intense with tons of nuances to understand. They are now integral ingredients to my forum's overall style, and I have no reference points to go back to.

I'd understand locking or archiving the threads. Deleting them wholesale? Absurd. This single "policy" makes me question where the priorities of this forum and its moderators lie.