Code Out
 

Peaceful civil disobedience.

This may get me in a lot of trouble. Banned for all I know. I don't know how the org has reacted to this kind of thing in the past.

I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm trying to get a useful dialog started. And since the org don't appear to be listening, I will publish no more hacks on this site, nor support ones already published, for a period of one month.

If you wish to join me, post in this thread.

If asked for support on an existing hack by a user, I will give the canned reply:

"I'm sorry you are affected by this, but I am currently participating in a 'code-out' in protest of some vbulletin.org policies. I apologize for the inconviences and will answer your question as soon as our issues are worked out."

What's the goal, cuase I don't get it?

force change upon vbulletin.org until our requests for the attitudes to change around here are met by witholding new hacks & support I'd guess from the many threads active at the moment.

What specifically are you requesting to change, as part of the "issues to be worked out?" Sadly it seems to be that much of this is a personality clash.

(And that's inevitable when you gather a bunch of alpha-types, who all enjoy the power associated with running their own forums.)

Perhaps the folks who are feeling disaffected should fashion a list of very specific requests they'd like to see instituted, rather than going on "strike."

Asking for "attitudes to change" is a bit vague and not likely to happen.

The goal is simply to open a dialog to discuss whatever coders feel needs discussing, rather than just have our complaints dismissed as "you're replaceable".

So you're looking for a more direct line of feedback than Site Feedback or PM's. Perhaps a "preferred forum" where Coder's comments and suggestions are taken more seriously than those from newbies and regular users?

I don't think 'more seriously' is the issue. Coders have concerns over different things than other members. I think we just want to be heard on issues that directly effect us. An example is the hack database, which has been promised. Many coders have offered to help, for free, to make it a reality but they seem to just be ignored.

Its a pride issue with the Hacks Database. Thats why they won't allow other hackers to distribute code for it. I can't think of any other reason why they wouldn't allow fellow coders to help code site projects.

The vBulletin.org coding days are over for me, unless of course things happen to change.

come up with a list then.. I personally have only noticed the lack of respect between members.

Since it has been stated clearly that my presence and contributions here are of no significance to the continued existence and well being of this site. And that I may come or go without advantage or detriment to the whole. I have removed all my code contributions. Those that have my code already may continue to use them but you may not redistribute it or update it in any way. I retain copyright and may choose to offer it through another site.

I apologize for any blatant insignificance on my part. I’m quite confident, as was clearly stated by those that guide this community, that I will be replaced quickly by many more capable coders to follow.

Have a nice day

I see your changed your sig Jump. Will Code For Respect instead of food. As funny as it sounds, it's true.

Do to recent developments in Livewire's thread here, I am putting this protest on hold for the moment (I can only speak for myself), until I see how the discussion continues. It's nice to see progress being made.

Sorry, but I would never do this anyway - I just don't think this is the right way to get change. :)

Well, my understanding was that nothing else was working. It's not like I jumped right too this. I've been active and supported all my hacks and the other developers in the code forum...

Not to beat a dead horse here, but the only thing you will accomplish through this is punishing the users who use and need support from your hacks :)

They are the innocent parties in all this :)

Chris

The same goes for every strike then?

When people strike it's for their livelihood. The issue here is about respect. I'm not going to belittle or patronize the argument in any way but I am scratching my head with it.

I'm sorry, what policy has changed to cause this reaction? As far as I know, things have not changed. I'm not sure how a "hack database" which is still being coded would have anything to do with policy. I'm sincerely wanting to know so that we can improve and address the concerns.

Actually that's a thing i want to know myself.

Due to a matter of facts, i didn't have much free time to spend on vb.org during the last days, and the only changes i remember during the last two months were those, requested by these users, who actually seem to have problems with those changes now, which is very wierd, as they were the one requesting them in the first hand.

Unfortunatelly i wasn't here that often, to really know what things had happened, but from the discussions i participated in the staff forums, there weren't any policy changes, so either, you know more changes than myself (which would be very interesting to me, as i should know those poilicy changes as admin...) or there are actually other reasons for those reactions lately, but then i'd prefer to know the true reasons...

My reaction was specifically to being called replaceable, and having had numerous suggestions go unanswered. But mostly to being called replaceable. Probably an overreaction, but we we're all getting pretty hot yesterday.

Things seem to be on a better track now.

Would you please be so nice and lead me to that post where you were called replacable?

as said, i wasn't here last few days, and actually was very surprised about those threads here

here and here...

And it continues on in that same thread for a while...

well, from what i see, that wasn't meant personal.

It's a matter of facts, that a site with the size like vb.org doesn't life because of you or me or Paul or whoever as individual. The site lives, because the community is here. Of course a community is made of individual, and noone can replace someone else directly, but from what i see that wasn'T meant. It was meant on a global aspect like Marco said, you can look at a lot of enterprises to see that as well.

The problem is if someone feels too special about hisself. It's sad but it is the way it is, and that has nothing to do with you or Ken or whoever. Everyone in the staff is included in that statement as well. If an admin quits, there will be a new one. Of course some things will changes then, as noone can replace anyone totally, and what counts for admins, that counts for mods, and for coders and even for normal users, who just contribute by reporting bugs.

That maybe true, but the same could be said about the world - people live, people die, the world continues, the individual doesn't matter.

However, it's not an attitude most people would agree with, and I don't believe it's true. The contributions of a single person can change the course of humanity. It may in fact be the only way the course of humanity can be changed.

I'm not claiming that any of us here are going to 'change the course of vb.org' with our achievements, but someone will, and I am sure someone already has more than once.

If you think individuals don't matter then you tend to treat them that way, and you end up where we are now.

I didn't say individuals don't matter.

i just said, that noone is vbulletin.org all alone, and that statement is the same on the whole globe. People die, and noone will be able to replace those who died directly, but noone other will say that he died as well, just because one individual died...

Enough with the philosophies. No one's "dying" here.

Good coders are leaving because they feel disrespected and underappreciated. There's a sense that the mods here have the wrong attitude and don't know how to keep the ecosystem working smoothly.

Death is inevitable. Disrespect is not.

If anyone thinks a celebrated vB coder is of the same significance to this community as a newbie user (who bumps 6 month-old threads complaining "too much to read, this sux wont work help me pls") then I'd have to disagree with you strongly.

For your assurance there will always be one hambil.

Everyone here at vB.org who has played a role (e.g., staff, coders/designers, contributers, users, guests, fans) have made a difference past or present. Each and every one of them will be stamped into vB.org's history. Know that the individuals can never be replaced, only their spots.

I decided to take a 24 hour breather and step away. I come back and find that my existance here has been deleted. So, I guess the message here is don't ever lodge a complaint against the powers that be here. That pretty much cancels any chance of me changing my mind. Another great decision by a great staff.

A breather includes pulling all your hacks and going home? ;)

Stop it. You guys are scaring me with all this talk of death. :cross-eyed:

;)

If Jump's modifications are archived or soft deleted they should be restored, that's only right.

It was far less than 24 hours. I've seen hacks sit for weeks with attachments removed before they were removed.

Also, who died?? LOL

Okay, now let me get this straight. There's tension here, JumpD decides to take his (very popular) hacks down, but leave the support threads up for the benefit of his current users. (Allow me to add that JumpD consistently does a great job of supporting his hacks, answering nearly every question with calm attention.) Those threads were invaluable to me, and I'd review them regularly. To learn.

Less than 12 hours later, a mod deletes all of these threads. Without JumpD's request or knowledge.

Yes, I know that vB.org "policy" is that hack threads with no attachments be removed after a certain period of time to to quell confusion. But that "period of time" sure as hell is a lot longer than a few hours.

C'mon, the mod who removed these threads has an axe to grind, and his own ego to boost. He's trying to show JumpD that he's "the man." Or he's just not thinking. His actions insult the coder, and remove a valuable community resource (the threads themselves, and effectively, the coder as well.)

It's disgraceful and immature behavior. I'm new here and this is really pissing me off. I spent a lot of money for vBulletin, strictly because of what this community had to offer. More importantly, I spend many, many, many hours a day obsessing over my forum and my community, administering and improving it, and this forum gives me the tools to make that time count. It impacts my business and it impacts my "real life." There are mods here who are destroying that fabric with their silly, high school-like antics. I expect forum mods (especially at a forum filled with other forum mods) to be able to take a step back, and look at situations from a macro level. Deal with these issues with patience and consistency. And not react with a knee-jerk on the "delete" button because a coder (or in this case, many coders) is having a bad day. The thread deletion here was an act of retaliation, not forum moderation. We're not stupid, and this is absurd.

And Boofo, seriously, enough with the winks.

The threads being deleted was nothing more than a moderator doing their job. No staff member has a vendetta against JumpD, and we wouldn't delete threads just to "get back" at someone. I can understand that you're upset, but JumpD removed his hacks on his free will:

From his quote above, it seems to me like he had no interest whatsoever in coming back to vbulletin.org. If he wants his threads restored, he can contact one of the administrators and they will get it all sorted. :)

All you nice folks that are sending me PM's. You must assume they are reading them so don't get yourselves marked.

I think all of this is ridiculous! Freestyelez made a good point. No one here deserves more respect than anyone else...you earn it...and alot of you coders are fast losing my respect. You all need to come down off your high horses and get a reality check...the only people you are hurting are yourselves and the average user (who by the way probably doesn't have the money to pay for your hacks if they wanted to).

Please define for me then, what is the "period of time" required for a hack thread without an attachment to be removed?

12 hours?

Please. We're not idiots. Please keep in mind we all run forums ourselves and know all about the tightrope involved. Please address this situation with respect to our intelligence.

And why in the world is it their "job" to delete these threads, anyway? I still have every single one of JumpD's hacks installed, and relied on reviewing the notes in those threads to learn more. I asked and answered questions and I'd like to reference them now.

If you're so concerned about confusing future users with a hack thread that has no attachment, why not CLOSE / LOCK the thread instead?

To delete them entirely is absurd.

Tralala,

None of the threads deleted are deleted forever, they are just sent to a "recycle bin." As I mentioned before, if JumpD wants the threads restored...it can be done. :)

Danny.VBT, I understand that. I run a vB forum, remember, I know all about "soft-delete." ;)

Requiring JumpD to "request that his threads be restored" (after they were deleted a mere 12 hours after he removed the attachments!) is a bush-league move.

You make it like this is some sort of "policy" when it fact, it's clear to me it's just a move of oneupmanship.

Admit the threads were deleted prematurely, and undelete them. JumpD shouldn't have to "ask" for that, he's already stated publicly they were deleted without his knowledge. He's pissed off, and understandably so, and putting the ball in his court to "make the request" is just immature ego-tripping.

I agree, he shouldn't need to crawl back and beg they be re-added. It usually takes forever for the staff to delete something, you can't tell me someone didn't have something to prove. Restore them and at least give it a week or lock them for now so they won't be bumped. He's contributed a lot to the site and deserves that much.

People should be allowed a break if they don't feel they are being treated with respect.

Well that moderator's sleepin' on the job. This hack thread had its attachment removed long ago, yet the thread remains. I'm sure there are plenty more.

JumpD's got attention because of the current climate. This is not "business as usual" and anyone following along can see that clearly.

You're telling me it's the mod's job to delete attachment-less hack threads and all the hundreds of posts of valuable information and support, and it's okay for them to do so a mere 12 hours after the attachment has been taken down?

If that's the case, the "job" needs to be reviewed.

This harms the users and the community too. I contributed to those threads too, still have those hacks installed, and would like to review the information there. If JumpD never came back, then I'm denied that information forever?

That's stupid.

Some of his threads had thousands of posts! LOCK the threads if you want, but don't DELETE them.

It's an absurd move. You embarrass yourself by defending it.