Then of course there are folk like me, who are in the process of learning vB. I've written several useful mods for my site, and am in the process of writing three more. I could just throw something out there so I can get the keys to the Magic Kingdom, but I'd much rather take my time and make sure my code is up to par, and as upgrade-proof as I can make it, before putting something out for public consumption.

I would love to be able to participate (or at least lurk and search) in the Coders forum, to help me improve my vB specific coding chops before I release anything. But if the only way in is to release something ... well, can you say Catch 22?

BTW, I had no idea till I read the last few posts that there even was a super secret, cone of silence protected, Coders Discussion forum! How exactly does one get the necessary secret decoder ring? Send in five vBulletin mod box tops and sum up in 12 words or less why I want to be a vB coder?

-- hugh

I'd rather have the site administration recognize that a private coding discussion is in direct conflict with the official purpose of the site, and rectify the situation.

A poll is useless; this isn't a "majority wins" issue. Right is right and wrong is wrong. Now, I can admit that maybe I'm wrong, but none of the reasons I've seen put forth in defense of a private forum hold any water so far. I'm listening, though. Convince me.

Arguments I've already seen:

Reason: We need a private forum because members bug us in public with useless posts.
Rebuttal: Moderate.

Reason: We need a private forum because sometimes we discuss security issues with our hacks.
Rebuttal: Your users deserve to hear about these security issues and how you plan to address them.

Reason: We need a private forum because the public ones aren't any good.
Rebuttal: Circular argument.

Reason: We need a private forum because we are the reason the site exists and are the ones contributing.
Rebuttal: One-dimensional, elitist thinking. The site exists for more than just hack-distrubution, and releasing hacks isn't the only valid way to contribute.

Reason: Most people don't want to see these discussions.
Rebuttal: Don't read them.

Reason: We want one because we want one, don't have to give a good reason, and if it's made public we're leaving, and taking our hacks with us.
Rebuttal: Good-bye.

Reason: It's a perk for hackers.
Rebuttal: At the expense of the rest of the community; grow-up.

I'm not here to convince you. I was here to add my 2 cents on 'making .org like it use to be'.

The Coders Forum was created to thank the contributors of the site. There is nothing stopping posts from being made in programming discussions or one of the other handful of forums for those that want to discuss programming.

Maybe change the name to 'contributers forum' or hell, make it a public joinable group automatically joined when someone releases a modification (or for those that dont want to release anything). In the end, ranting and raving about a forum for contributors not available to non contributers doesn't really seem to hold much H2O.

Well it's been fun :)
...and that's my cue to exit!

Nice synopsys of what i was trying to say. :D

Marco, please read post #76 and let us all know what vB.org will do (related to the third issue especially) about it.
I'm very curious what it was drawn so far on the table. Can you post some updates in the Announcements forum?

Will vB.org let us know their plan before the decissions are fully made, so we can express our oppinions?

Thanks.

Yes Staff is actively trying to improve things. About hte moderation style, we came from a semi-unmoderated style, the site was ran like a community of friends, and that worked for a very long time.

Like with many growing "organisations" the policies and moderation style stayed the same for a very long time while the community was growing and changing.

One day you wake up and find all is a huge mess, your friendly undermoderating style don't work anymore, so suddenly you must change. I know for sure that we will have many many more discussions before we will have things running smooth again, but for the time being one of the changes must be to take back control of what happens and how. We will probably get complaints from (older?) members who feel that we will be taking away their "freedom of speech", but i am confident that this will be only temporary until everyone is used to the change in climate.

Bottom line is that no matter what direction we will go in the end, the process of changing will always be causing some pain, but you just have to take that pain if you're confident that it will lead to something better in the end.



PS: Lol what was it that i wanted to say?

This being the third topic in post #76?

I strongly recommend to make the users be aware what exact changes will be made and ask their oppinion about those changes.
In this way, you will avoid "some pain". :)

Ya. :)
Thanks Marco.

If the "pain" is caused by a policy change, then this will ofcourse be announced to all members. An example is the stronger guidelines on how to use the Feedback forum. The "pain" in this case is that we will no longer allow off-topic posts.

About your question on the status of a Commercial directory, i can give you the following unofficial status-reoprt:
- Based on the input that was given over a longer period of time and after a Staff and Jelsoft discussion we have now gotten the green light to implement such a directory. So there will definatly come a place to post/advertise commercial offerings.
- It will be a loose integration with vBulletin.org. This meaning that we will not be mixing free and commercial postings or offerings. It will become a totally seperate area. How this exactly will be implemented is not decided yet. It could be a page with a link in our menu, or maybe it will become an independent site linked from here.

What is still unclear:
- How we will technically implement it. We have a slight prefernce for writing our own custom page, but it is still also possible that we would use a third party product. There are a lot of projects active at the same time now. Implementing a Paid Directory has priority, but we are trying to gain some fast improvements with smaller projects or projects that would benefit i bigger group of members first.
- The criteria to request to be listed are also not decided on yet.

Conclusion: Yes it will come, it has a high priority but not highest.

Once we get closer into deciding more of the details and implementing it, there will be made an announcement by administration.