yes, theirs a very real need for it, as in such a discussion i take offence to a personal attack on me, so really you should ask if theirs any need for that, personally i felt that 13th Disciple should've behaved better than that, and my single swear word went along way in showing my infurity towards the matter.

regarding the actual subject matter of the thread, i will in actual fact repeat my initial sentiments, i feel people are overcharged in terms of skins, whether or not you or any other designer likes it or not, i feel that's the case, if i could was marketing my skills in saying so and saying i charge half what these guys do then that would be one thing, but i'm not, i'm giving my opinion in regards to a subject brought forth in the lounge.

Cut out the offensiveness before this thread gets closed, which would be a shame.

I don't feel designers/skinners/whatever you want to call them charge too much, they charge depending on the amount of work that's involved in each specific project. I wouldn't charge $100 to someone for a design as high quality as WiredGamers for example, it's just not practical, do the math. You're working many many hours to design, developer and deliver a skin and should charge accordingly.

Back to original, there's quite a few vB designers around, you just have to know where to look for them. :)

no ones asking you too, but in stating my opinion that in general designers are overcharged for skins, i don't expect to be attacked, people charging $5k for custom jobbies will always be ridiculous to me, just for a forum skin.

yeh i agree theres nothing wrong with stating an opinion especially if its linked to the forum topic in the first place
the last thing expected was to get gunned down by 13thdisciple

no offence but i saw that as an attack @ 13th

and i agree to the fact that forum skins do get overcharged
especially considering the whole forum is already pre done
its only a bit of css and html and all within the forum itself
vb3 is also the easiest skinnable forum out there

however it depends upon how far the customisation has gone
if its just graphics and html then no
but if its a proper custom design with all new php coding
and a whole website custom designed to fit the users needs in terms of what they want
IE new custom script (stats page)
then i would say they charge no more then other web designers out there
however thats web designers and not just forum skinners

lol having said that if i could afford 5k to skin a forum i might aswell go all out and get myself a whole site made at enterprise level

Heck would i pay in the thousands for a skin, thats just stupid, You could buy a car for that Shesh, when i see them prices you cant help but laugh, most i would pay for a skin would most likely be $50 and then id expect it to be a real nice graphic one. Moan all you want if you think thats cheap but if you think about it, thats not cheap.

It's an hourly business.. you charge what you're worth and you charge for the hours you spend.

$50 for a retail skin is fine, actually high-- but this means 100 other sites could have the same skin. But if you expect to pay $50 for a custom skin that only you will own, that is absolutely ridiculous.

BTW, the site that claims 'custom skins start at $5000' is a joke and even I'll laugh at that until someone shows me a skin that took them more than 50 hours of real work.

If i paid $5000 for a custom skin i would expect to be able to walk around in it and everything :p

Then you're stupid and have no idea what goes into making a skin obviously. The amount of time spent on client negotiations, time working on a skin from original sketches to something coming out of PS and then for it to be coded, and that's only worth $50? Humm ok. :rolleyes:

If you think about it? I doubt you've thought it through, You have to talk with the client for at least an hour discussing exactly what he wants - Then Draw something up(Sketch) - Then make it in whatever graphics program you prefer - Then code it up for vBulletin, I've gotten $100 for simply coding a skin someone else made, and your telling me producing a skin from scratch is only worth $50?

I think we need to make the distinction between a "retail skin" that many customers can purchase and a unique skin custom designed and sold only once.

I don't mind posting prices here since I'll freely give them when quoting a new client. I typically charge $450 to $750 for a custom skin, depending on complexity and if there is any PHP involved. My retail skins sell for $30. Big difference..!