I really don't understand your point being that you're the one who made the plugin for VB 4.x https://marketplace.digitalpoint.com...tin-4.870/item

Your comment is contradicting with your statement.

We are running in a weird circle here. Not everyone needs Sphinx, only big boards with many topics, posts and members and in my case Sphinx was very helpful. But then again having the best is always better, just like servers when it comes to cores, rams, and hard drives. You're always looking for better servers at a very good price even if your site doesn't need a very powerful server.

So out of the box, if a customer buys a VB software and we know VB 5.x will be better, it just needs time just as much as XF needs at least 2 years to catch up to VB but if a customer buys a VB 5.x and uses its Sphinx search and his or her forum became popular, he or she knows quite well that he or she will benefit from the Sphinx search.

So pay more now for something that may or may not work in the future? That is not exactly prudent.

That is not logically right as we know the amount of work and features put into Vbulletin isn't equal to the amount of work and features XF is currently dealing with. Not even the number of developers Vbulletin has is equal to the number of developers XF has (which are two dev, Mike & Kier)

If i logged in to my Vbulletin 4.x , i find this list

Engineering Alan Orduno, Brett Morriss, Danco Dimovski, David Grove, Edwin Brown, Fernando Varesi, Freddie Bingham, Glenn Vergara, Jay Quiambao, Jorge Tiznado, Kevin Sours, Kyle Furlong, Michael Lavaveshkul, Olga Mandrosov, Paul Marsden, Xiaoyu Huang, Zoltan Szalay

Last time i checked, the newest version of Xenforo 1.3, kier was talking about functions that VB has Spoiler and Multiple Quote http://vimeo.com/84587188

Why are we running in this bad circle? You want to tell me that XF is better VB 4.x?

So your ok with buying the addon for vBulletin but not for XenForo. Little hypocritical no?

Which is why having it as an addon like XenForo makes sense. Why charge people who don't need it by having to bump up the cost of the base software to cover the development and support (which again, XF + Seach addon is still cheaper than vBulletin) for all those boards which WONT be using it?

Put another way, if XenForo included the search addon in the core software, but that meant the price went up from $140 to $150, would you be happy that all the little boards have to pay extra for something they wont use?

Lol i ignored all your recent replies to me and yet you keep trying to reply back to me :d Don't be intimidated.

There is no comparison between VB 4.x and XF, the product is still in development and needs 2 years to catch up to VB, why is it so hard to accept the truth : ) it hurts i really know but that is the reality. Both XF and Vb 5.x needs another 1 to 2 years to shape up better.

In the meantime VB 4.x with all its features and functions is the best out there and beats both of them.

Did you forgot about Xenforo renewal policy?

XenForo 1-Year Extension - $40, additional cost with add-ons
XenForo Enhanced Search - $50 (extension $10)
XenForo Resource Manager - $60 (extension $15)

So you're looking at giving XF $50 each year vs Vbulletin which is a one time $199 renewal for the next big version i.e., 6.x do the math.

Wait, we're talking about vB4 now? Wasn't your argument that vB5 is going to improve in the next two years and everybody was going to come back to it? Now you are back on vB4, which does not have Sphinx compatibility so I guess that it really is an "inferior" as well.

But, either way, are you trying to say that vBulletin has less or more "work and features" than what "XF is currently dealing with"? And what does the number of people with credits in the the vB ACP have to do with anything? More hands in a product development does not mean by default it is a better product than others.

Just to sum this up.... people should pay more for vB5 because there is a chance it'll be improved in the next two years and, in the interim, they should use the older vB4 version with its inferior search since, after all, they have more people assigned to the project?

Did you forget, XenForo renewals are optional ;)

Even if they wern't, it would take 2 years of renewals to cost more than vBulletin, by which time I would be expecting major new functionality or new version to be available... which means comparatively speaking, when you then have to spend $199 for an upgrade, I already have it for... nothing extra as its in my renewal price... so I then get 3-4 years of being better off before the prices equalise again!

Not to mention, the carrot and stick method of XenForo is better for me as a customer. If the product looks like its poor quality or lacking updates, I dont renew, XenForo loses money. They're encouraged to work better and harder to get me to renew.

With vbulletin, they have all your money upfront. What incentive do they have now to give you a better product?

He's being blatantly honest by saying it still has its pros and cons and outlines one in his example above.

Well played sir.

Mike, which was irrelevant if this is what he meant.. because we're not discussing the pros and cons of the Sphinx search. But what he said that was contradicting was "search under Sphinx on vbulletin.com is flat out terrible."

That didn't make any sense to me calling it flat out terrible. It appears that XF fans will go an extra mile or two to justify any answer. At the end of the day, we the customers will chose what is better, for XF fans not liking to hear the words "VB is better than XF" is absurd. They aren't being honest with themselves.

You're proved your point already, your signature ---> (Sorry, but I am no longer developing for vB; please do not PM. So long, and thanks for all the fish.)

You're taking our conversation from VB 5.x then to VB 4.x and back to 5.x . The bottom line here is both VB 5.x and XF needs at least 1 to 2 years to shape up better and in the meantime VB 4.x is the better option at the current time.

This is my opinion, you can't change it. I already said, last time i checked, the newest version of Xenforo 1.3, kier was talking about functions that VB has - Spoiler and Multiple Quote http://vimeo.com/84587188 These guys are still trying to add all of VB default functions. How are you trying to convince many that XF is better than VB 4.x when we know the truth.

Are we done here?

I actually do recall your name from Vbadvance if i am not mistaken. It is a shame that Kier and Mike dragged the VB community into this while laughing in the background at many of you. But that won't matter, times will prove which product is better and most importantly which company behaves better toward customers or non customers.

That comment is to stop people from sending me PMs for code I haven't touched in some time; it saves both them & me time.

That depends; are you going to continue to post misleading statements as if they were true?

Misleading in your own mind but perfectly true in reality.

If XF fans and Staff are still being intimidated by my posts, I seriously have to applaud them, that tells me that what i am saying is proven to be the truth and the truth hurts, we all know that.

If you can explain to me why Brogan said this when i never bought XF in the first place, then i will give you credit.

Tell you what, you up for a bet Katie? We'll both put some money into a 3rd party escrow. I'll bet you 2 years from now, there will be more live XenForo sites running the latest version of XenForo at that time, than there will be vb5 live sites running in total.

Pretty safe bet for you based on your comments no?

Based on some of the replies in this thread it is more than just my "own" mind. ;)

You are confusing "being intimidated" with reacting to FUD. vB still has some loyal & ardent fans, so does IPB, XF, and a host of other forum applications. The problem comes in when they continue to talk about issues that they obviously don't understand as if what they are saying is the absolute truth when it isn't. Before repeatedly slamming a different product, where the person may or may not have had a very public issue and is now obviously biased against it, they really need to be familiar with the topics at hand before comparing the merits of Product X versus Product Y.

If you want to talk about the truth katie, post up the full, unedited version of the ticket you had with the xenforo staff, so we can see the truth behind what you really said to them. It will be enlightening and put much of your posts into a real context and light :)

Again, intimidated. Those who are so sure of themselves, shouldn't care really. But because XF isn't sure about itself, it is getting intimidated by the truth.

Just let customers find the truth between XF and VB and choose what they like instead of overshadowing the truth. I've seen how it works on XF pre-sale's section when customers asks them if XF has this set of x features from VB.

Tell your buddies at XF to show you the ticket history, and when you find the shocking truth, you will be shamed of XF's actions but i know you will give XF yet another excuse.

Don't forget what Paul said.

PM me a link to it. You know they wont give it to me if I ask them, but since your implying your ok with me reading it, just send me the link in PM.


I see you skipped over this post...


Tell you what, you up for a bet Katie? We'll both put some money into a 3rd party escrow. I'll bet you 2 years from now, there will be more live XenForo sites running the latest version of XenForo at that time, than there will be vb5 live sites running in total.


So how about it?

You keep using the word "intimidated" but in the completely wrong context; is that really the word you're trying to come up with?

I would really love to stick around, but i have to leave soon. It was nice shedding some of the truth.

Next time, will compare the product's features (VB vs XF) features. I think this should set the tone right for which product is better at the moment.

Right... what I'm saying is that just because vB5 uses Sphinx, it doesn't make it's search good. You are confusing correlation with causation.

Sphinx is a technology... just like PHP is. All sites built with PHP are not great sites (they can be, but not necessarily). Just like all search engines built with Sphinx are not necessarily great search engines. All I know is that whatever whacky search engine they built for vB5 is more or less useless if you actually want to find something.

And yes, I will say unequivocally that the search engine I built with Sphinx for vB4 is exponentially better than the one vBulletin built for vB5 with Sphinx. The one I made actually works if you want to search for something (for example). :)

We do know that VB 5.x has many issues and it will take time for them to fix these issues (front-end and back-end) and make the features work all together properly. But in the mean time, we don't need to degrade Vbulletin as a whole product because there is a successful version of it Vb 4.x and most probably the best out there and surpassing XF in many ways.

What XF fans are forgetting is that VB 4.x is still around with all its complete features and it is very stable. For me to say XF is better than VB 4.x would be utterly a lie.

So no matter how they switch words around, we know VB 5.x and XF needs time to improve, and for me, that estimate for both of them would be 1 - 2 years to see how well each product improved.

We do know that XF isn't as popular as VB, and that explains why many still love VB. XF fans wants to make it sound otherwise but they can't deny when a XF staff says this just today.

XF addons doesn't receive many rates and reviews because not many have installed it and use it.

For me i want to see a product with great features and innovation - a product with great features which makes use of interactive design that meets 2014 web design. Unfortunately, neither XF nor VB 5.x met this level yet. So i am still waiting, in the mean time using VB 4.x which is the best for me so far.

The level of features between VB 4.x and XF is pretty obvious, so why deny it is beyond my understanding.

http://forum.nihonomaru.com/member/rina-touin.1/ vs. http://xenforo.com/community/members/kier.2/

Not sure what any of that has to do with Sphinx... All I was saying is that the Sphinx implementation they built for vB5 is not good, that's all. No clue about the whole XF vs. vB debate (nor do I really care since what other people do/don't like really doesn't affect me, so...)

Bottom line, vB5's Sphinx implementation is pretty crappy if you want to actually find search results. I suspect vB staff wouldn't disagree.

And we never said that VB 5.x doesn't have many issues.

Saying vBulletin is better because there are more add-ons is stupid. vBulletin has been around longer and obviously have more add-ons because of this. That does in no way compare the two softwares.

Having more add ons makes it easier and better for the end user. Who cares why?

With the recent discussions about checking some ticket and fanboys and such well I'm gonna have to go all out Jerry McGuire here and simply reply with "you [S]had[/S] lost me at hello".

So aside from all that lets get back on track and compare the actual software not the people behind it or how you feel they should or should not act... unless you want me to chime in with a hundred paragraphs of Lorem Epsum :p jk jk. *I'd really like to see this thread continue without posts regarding moderation actions on other sites and little snide comments between some of you I mean come on now, how now brown cow!

God knows what language Superman talks :confused: :erm:

I was about to post some Loren epsum filler but thought better of it. :)

Apparently I speak a little Shakespearean while also teaching you all rounded vowel sounds lol :cool:.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_now_brown_cow

Edit: Now aren't we all going off topic! Derailers the lot of us!

Still doesn't make that software better in terms of putting them against each other to see which software performs better. Third party add-ons are not part of that.

Well it depends on how you are looking at it.

If you want to put in some stipulation that a user will only use the base software then I still believe Vb4 is better but the majority of people use addons. More add ons means more flexibility and that is a good thing.

I'm not saying that Add-Ons are a bad thing. What I'm saying however is that when you benchmark something you have to take the two things (in this case; softwares) and then take away all the Third Party Add-ons and compare them in their "vanilla" state.

vBulletin 4 is not a bad software. I do however feel like XenForo suits my needs better. (Note: In it's "vanilla" state.) Which software is statistically better we will never know. Mostly because you can take any statistics and present them in your favor.

Ps. I would like to point out that I did not say xF is better than vB. But I prefer xF and feel that it suits my current needs better. Yes, this is aimed at you dear. You know who you are.

I am looking at it from an end user experience as to which is better in my opinion. we are not benchmarking software here. we are talking about which one is better for the end user.

Ofcourse you are entitled to your opinion. I suppose I am biased having used vbulletin for many years but I have worked with XF a few times in addition to every other script out there and I still think Vb4.2 is the best. Just my opinion though. If you are happy with XF then that is all that matters.

I never said Xenforo coders were better or worse than vBulletin. I can say that vBulletin has a KNOWN issue with php5 and vb4 and those "developers" haven't fixed it yet, but have released plenty of updates for their vb5. lol If the shoe fits, you wear it. They need to get off their asses and fix the damn script so I don't have to "hide" errors and can stop deleting all the damn double posts. In my opinion, once vBulletin was sold, it started its downhill journey in my opinion. They are losing LOYAL customers (12 years here - I will NEVER buy another vb license after this php5 nonsense i have been dealing with for over a year now.) because they just don't seem to give a rats ass about their vb4 product. Out with the old and in with the new while saying "fu$% you" to those of us who refuse to use that mess called vb5.

The double post issue is either a result of not hiding the warnings by default (something Xenforo does as well) or the result of a 3rd party add-on.

By default VB 4.2.2 with warnings suppressed (or turned off on the server) does not get double posts.

Let me start by saying that I appreciate you answering. You just offered me more info than I have received from vbulletin on these issues! Thank you!

My main issue with debugging the doublepost (which only started after we upgraded the server to php5) is that I can't replicate it. I never doublepost and most of my members don't either. It almost seems like it is isolated to certain users. I attempted debugging it by seeing what the users have in common but came back with zeros on that front as they use varying browsers and comps. I already went through each of the sites modifications a LONG time ago and the mods weren't the issue as it still happened with them disabled. The devs themselves have stated the issue is/was with php5 and vb4 compatibility. I am running 4.2.2 and deleted 6 doubles today alone.

Keep in mind that I stopped asking for help at vb once i heard 'we are working on it" for the damn 100th time. (Not literally, but you get my point.) I have gone back and read others posts and there weren't any answers for others on the site beyond "we are working toward php5 and vb4 compatibility". This seems to be a box response now over there. I just purchased my second xenforo license and have started to port my vbulletin over. I would have loved to have had this fixed back when it became an issue but it wasn't. vbulletin can officially kiss my ass because I won't be using their products anymore. Internet Brand is a damn joke.

Rich, I will PM you so as not to take this further off-topic.

Feel happy with vbulletin on my forum http://www.webmastersun.com . Be honest, its templates are easy to edit and change new layouts for my style. I get more good feedbacks on my vb style. Still keep on developing my forum without changing it to new cms.:)

This has run its course now.