My site is for resource purposes only. There was a demand to have a coding community not controlled by jelsoft, so I made one. The main point of my above post is to show that I'm not competing with vB.org and I would like to help change the way things are around here.

I really like that concept idea.. :)

For a young man you are very wise. I agree with your observations.

As for the hack db, it is being coded, the coder had to take some time off for personal reasons, so let's be patient. In any case, the hack db is not really the root cause of all this I am pretty sure.

Thank you for your kind comments.

As for the hack db, feel free to put it in the hands of some coders over here if you'd like. I'd be happy to help out, as i know for a fact that a lot of people are anticipating the release.

With regards to the liasion status, the general public is not likely to see it in action. I do not think it is appropriate, in most cases, for me to publicly criticize the staff on personal issues. I will comment on board-wide issues, but when it comes to things with one specific staff member, I prefer to discuss issues via pm with the site admins or in the staff forum with the group.

What I try to do is to ensure that staff follows the rules established for the members. For the most part, staff does a damn good job at keeping one another in check. If one staff member becomes frustrated, another invariably steps up and helps calm him down and tries to take over the moderating until the staff member can cool down. A lot is said about the negative things staff does around here, but you have to remember, they do an awful lot of basic forum cleanup - mopping up after misposted stuff and such.

But, I don't want to divert from the topic at hand. For me, the coder's forum solved a lot of the problems here for me. I no longer release code in the release forums because I don't have time to support it. But, I can share stuff in the coder's forum with people who don't need help. This works quite well for me because I don't care about install numbers and such.

About the meeting:

The vBulletin.com staff have meetings from time to time to discuss certain things. These are private meetings and no vBulletin.org or other staff members are invited. This wednesday is another one and I use that oppertunity to address the vBorg-matters. I am getting privmsgs from users that they all want to get invited: NOT gonna happen.

I only personally suggested that I want to address this at upcoming meeting, then recommend to have a meeting with vborg/com staff together, and if needed to invite a few users in a follow up meeting.

Floris, we aren't talking about your vBcom guy meeting. We are referring to a meeting where some "top coders" to quote Scott in this post would be allowed attendance.

Revan,

Scott said that he would discuss the option of organizing such a meeting with Wayne. I think he posted further on that he would speak Scott at a Jelsoft meeting (wednesday???)

Edit: Oops forget this post Revan, now i misread yours.

The thing being he said 'I think'.. which suggests he was thinking outloud
and he said 2 meetings, not the upcoming one which was already planned before this happened (wednesday). As in my summery .. we take it step by step and unfortunatly this means the community has to wait a bit. Wednesday there's a planned staff meeting for Jelsoft, after which we will know more. I also suspect that a meeting between vborg/vbcom staff will take place. And I can't disagree with Scott that another meeting might be handy where users are invited.

And are invited doesn't mean that people can invite themselves. I will not respond to private msgs. It hasn't even been wednesday yet. Who knows .. maybe we resolve this wednesday.

I'll post my general thoughts on all this.

Last time i checked i was an advanced coder however i haven't reallly released anything in a while. mainly due to the fact i don't feel i can test code suffiently without it being run on my live board and until i bring my live board upto speed, i won't have the time to release mods i'm not using. as a result i'm not even supporting my mods at present, i ported what i could and allowed people to build on them. if there was an open source tick box i'd tick it on most of my 3.5.x releases.

While it seems that people don't feel appreciated here, i haven't got a clue about all that, i find users to be a pretty mixed bag anyway, some will promise you donations that never arrive while others will show you the world of gratitude without ever mentioning money. different people show gratitude in different ways.

IMO the problems with vBulletin.org vary. On one hand, there's the fact half the moderators here shouldn't even be mods, whether it's something simple like them being in the employment of Jelsoft, whether they don't post or whether they were appointed using a selection process so advanced, i won't understand it for another fifty years. i'm not saying that i feel anyone here sucks persay, just that i don't feel half the mods need to be moderators. you can look in there forums and to find them seems to be a near impossiblity, being a moderator requires presence and i don't feel the current team for the most part do this.

that said, maybe i'm not the best judge of all of this, my requirements and needs have changed near 180 degrees in the past year. As i see it now, i'm more interested in talking about code, in fact and all things PHP. i spend most of my time reading about people with code problems on the conceptual level and i enjoy it. i thought that teh new coders forum was a great idea, but as Ken mentioned, you can release a hello world script and get access, imo it should be restricted to Advanced coders and should get it's own PHP forum.

I hear people talking about community spirit and what not and you're right it has gone, in my time here i feel like i've had several coding mentors and i've thoroughly enjoyed being taught the little things that make my code nicer an better. one of my best moments in a while was just the other day and the discussion about ctype_digit() vs is_numeric() and in my opinion this is what vBulletin from a coders standpoint should be about.

Instead theres some real segregation, it doesn't really feel like anyone works with anyone else and with several mods on the existing php forum an incredible amount of threads go unanswered there. i spent a while making it my pesonal mission to make sure this isn't the case, but i honestly just felt it was fruitless, especially when you can do all that, go to post an issue you have and wait like a week including bumps just to get an answer.

yes we do have a few mods that suck and yes things could be improved in regards to attitudes around the site. but i feel that the biggest issue here at the moment is that the community in regards to coders doesn't exist. it's not about releasing work, it's about getting coders to want to be here and that doesn't happen, it's not really gonna happen unless some sort of action is taken either. and from my experiences here, there's really not about to be a moderator who's gonna jump up, take the bull by the horns and thread any of the forums into a brighter future. that in itself is a problem.

coders are the be all and end all of this site, whether anyone likes it or not. the amount of moderators that release stuff her is minute, so what is being done to ensure the future stream of hacks? if you want to ensure that the end user has an easy ride then appoint a team to deal with that, but the core of the site IMO should concentrate on making sure the coders are here.

One thing i'll suggest as an improvement. Would be for vB.org to add a chat area where licenced users actually can talk about code modding. I think this would be very valuable because it would help people with small coding problems to seek some help. Not only that, but it would bring coders together. The areas for this are quite dead, it either takes a week of bumping a thread or you get no reply at all. How are people supposed to progress with no help? There are tutorials which are very useful but this doesnt cover everything vB. I think that in order to make vB.org flourish you really need to do more to help and motivate potential coders.

Leave with a slam of the door or simply walk out, that is the question. I've seen plenty of "I'm outta here" posts on my board, usually by people who just want some attention and usually don't end up leaving after getting a little of it.

Leaving with a slam and taking your ball with you is as old as the playground; your ball, your choice who gets to play with it. Just like the people who own the playground get to set the rules.

It's one thing to talk about improvements, I've been involved in more than a few around here; but to make petty demands and threats and use your ball as a form of blackmail is just wrong.

If you want to leave, leave. Take your balls with you if you want; but don't make so much noise and expect me to come chasing after you. I've got my own balls and while I may play with other peoples balls, at the end of the day I'll leave with the couple balls I brought before the games started.

Its clearly obvious that you have not even read this thread from begining to end.

unless there was a post i missed, there were a couple posts that stated he was leaving his toys for the other kids to play with, with his blessing.

Yeah, I read them. After 5 pages it reads like this, "blah blah blah". Same thing repeated endlessly in a never-ending circle of drama. Before long it all becomes one big ball of twine; my remarks were necessarily directed at you in their entirity, although I can understand that you might read it like that. They were more of a commentary on the group of posts as a collective as I have neither the time nor the interest in addressing everyone individually.

Those are my balls, and I want the users to be able to play with my balls when ever they want.

Most excellent. As it should be.

But do you really need to make such a stink before you leave? Why not just let it go, accept it for what it is and move on to greener pastures? And why haven't you left yet - wasn't that the point of the first post? In my world, "See ya, I'm outta here." is usually followed by the person leaving.

Again....

Yeah, 14 pages gets a bit repetitive... and me with work to do, well, you know... so I take it you are not leaving, right?

Then don't waste my time with your ball comments if your not even going to read the whole thread in full. If you read the whole thread, then you would understand how I stand at this point, and why I made this thread to begin with.

I thought you were pretty clear in this regard in your first post... my mistake, must have been part of the 'slamming the door to get attention' part.

Too much information...

MPDev, don't even come into this thread and start shit. If you even took a few mins out of your life to open your eyes and read the whole thread, then you would have noticed things in this thread where taking a postive turn in direction. Instead, we have people like you that come in, read the first post out of 200 and make a comment that has nothing to do with the state of this thread anymore.

Your ignorance is the reason this thread has even started.

And you make my point exactly; your little sissy-fit got you the attention you wanted and so now you are standing on the sidelines with your balls telling us you might play again, but only under your terms.

Stick and stone and all that....

Are you, perhaps, looking for your own attention with your sissy fit about his sissy fit?

I have nothing to be worked up about; just pointing out the hypocrisy of the first poster. I have nothing to gain or lose in this discussion; it is what it is.

wtf are you talking about? Whats with you and my balls...

First off, I'm not looking for attention. My activty in this community speaks for it self. As far as me holding my 'balls' for blackmailing purposes. Where did I state that I was taking my hacks down? I think I remember saying that I want my hacks to stay up.

Wait a min... That was the first post.

Don't be so self-absorbed... not everything here is about you... just parts of it.

And with that, I'll move over to the other section of the playground.... this sandbox is full.

@livewire. Just ignore this guy. Looks like mpdev's wanting this thread to be closed for some reason.

@MPDev. Read the full thread first, then make your comments. Theres no point in you reading 5 pages then posting. You dont understand what the thread is about anymore

How am I being self-absorbed? Your the one talking about how I am looking for attention and how I am using my "balls" as a form of blackmale. I clearly proved to you that I wasn't. So go play in your little sandbox and let the big boys play amoungs thereselfs. ;)

Your more then likely right, so This is my last comment to you Dev.

This is an unofficial warning, because I am not a moderator on this forum. But you guys are on the edge of having this thread closed or posts deleted.

Behave and respect this web site's forum rules.

woosh its all kicking off in here!

@LiveWire: I have been watching and reading this thread closely - as a long term user of vB. I am not a coder but would certainly like to be, and would love to benefit from your experience and expertise on that journey, but... I am a pragmatic and successful businessman. I may at some point make a post about what I read here, but what I'd say to you now is simply ignore these latest outbursts by people who are so hypocritical that it is laffable. You have conducted yourself in a professional and courteous manner... all credit to you.

Hint: use the ignore feature... but who am I to tell a coder about such basics eh... :)

Keep up the good debate people.

Hello,

I have been a member here for a couple years now. I have seen the change in atmosphere as well. There are many things that have been lost on this site. Many of which, as of recent, are the coders themselves.

I am not a skilled coder like Livewire. I look to the coders like Livewire and Sam (thegeek) to learn. I view their code and try to pick it apart. When they leave, so too does anything I could have learned from some of their future releases.

The attitude of some of the people on this site is absolutely ridiculous. If you want a great example, have a look at all of the bashing that went on in the "Donations" modification. The coder (cloud I believe) was slammed more times in that thread than any other I have read.

It seems that a lot of the "newbies" feel obligated and expect things from this site. Many seem to have forgotten that this site is just a resource....a FREE resource.

When I first joined this site, I asked MANY questions. Back then, I got MANY answers. The "community" as a whole was a hell of a lot more friendly, and everyone seemed to help each other out. It isn't like that anymore. There are still some great people here, but the way the site was has dissipated.

I swear it wasn't me, it was them.

<hands behind back, whistling.... />

This is exactly the reason this site is dysfunctional. What is the point of this post? (from a mod no less!)

It was meant in jest during a very heated time. You really had to be there to understand it the way it was meant.

No, that's not the reason this place is dysfunctional, the point was to make an analogy to how people are acting. :confused:

Now, do you want paper or plastic? :tired:

Here comes the Infantry! ;)

Ah, the old "ya had to be there" line.

The posts are all here, in context. Anyone can review them. Not to mention, the comment was made last night.

Maybe the ";)" comes in handy after all?


:D