Not sure if you guys are talking about TAZ, or vB5.
I think if IB will listen to their customers (or fans) then they could have the best forum software again.
XF > vB 4 > vB 3 > vB5 at the moment :D

They have actively ignored their customers for over five years now. From those who coded the abundance of free vB3 and vB4 addons, hardly anyone is left. And that's not just because there's no plugin system anymore. Look at xF: They have no plugin system, the learning curve is pretty similar to vB5, and yet there's plenty of addons being coded. It's just that hardly anyone that witnessed the vB4 and vB5 release desasters still thinks that IB has a clue what they're doing and that coding for software in the state of vB5 is worthwhile. Most addons here came from people who used vB themselves, coded what they needed and wanted themselves, then shared with the community. IB suceeded in practically destroying this, and those with enough coding skill to make good addons quickly saw that they never would "upgrade" to something like vB5.

I agree.

That's not actually correct Mark.

They were removed - I was given the task of removing them after we completed 4.2.0.

In many cases, yes.

The large number of vb3/vb4 mods were written by people who created them for themselves first, then released them here - a prime example being myself. All the mods I wrote and released here were things I created for myself in vB3. Allthough I did also port them all to vB4 as well, even though I dont have a vB4 forum.

I'm still baffled as to why it was removed Paul it just baffles me... to have vBulletin, to have a pre-sales area on here even where people ask about mods before purchase - all the times we've steered them in a direction or told them it could be done, mods and methods that made them want to purchase and now that has simply been removed? Remove the system remove an increase in sales through modding. Why is it I see more migrating from the Cloud everyday saying it could not give them what they wanted (customization) so that is a clue if anything.

I just don't see the logic in it, so they paid you to remove what brought them more sales it just does not compute and I'm a fanboy, on the vBulletin bandwagon even but I still can't see it, I hate to say it.

There are both disappointed customers and vicious haters. I'm not blaming the customers but it is almost a full time job watching for lies being posted from the haters- two wrongs do not make a right- they seem to think it does.

Log into your Member's Area at https://members.vbulletin.com and add your vBulletin.org email address to the Priority Forum Support list- check what you have listed there- and double check your vbulletin.com account email matches exactly. If you still have trouble open a support ticket.

Certainly in the forums and tickets when people inquired about VB5 I (and most other staff I could see) would warn people VB5 was a very big change from VB4, the biggest change from any version of VB before, and we suggested they try the demo first before deciding to upgrade their forums. I still suggest this to people inquiring about VB5.

A more modern, more social forum experience.

Plugins have a downside... They make overall system less safe- with a plugin system if someone gets Admin access to the forum they more or less have access to the whole hosting account as they can create a plugin to give them disk access. With the VB5 extension system a hacked Admin account would not give disk access.

Also plugins only really work for the desktop version. With ForumRunner, Tapatalk, and the VB Mobile Suite plugins cause problems- some are active, some are not- some will cause errors on this mobile platforms.

The idea of doing everything via extensions is a clean one and one that would prevent such problems introduced by plugins- but what we got was a system simply not capable of allowing all the mods we were used to.

If they could redo the extensions system in some way that allowed total control I'd be for it, but realistically a plugin system would be easier to implement.

Agreed - but keep one thing in mind.. Most of those 'haters' started as disappointed customers.

Its my belief that the majority of mod creators didn't leave because of the lack of a plugin system. That may have contributed, but I don't think that was the primary reason.

Things have happened incrementally over time. IB taking over, releasing vb4 too early, losing Mike & Kier, XF launched, The lawsuit, vb4 plans being discarded, vb5 being released way too early, cutbacks on staff..

All of these things cost more and more customers as time went on many of whom migrated to XF or IPB. And its those customers that created mods and used mods.

Its ironic. One of the reasons IB bought vBulletin was so they could control the software their owned sites operate on, yet none of them have upgraded to vb5 my knowledge. Almost all run on vb 3x.

IMO, its a terrible shame, and how top management that controls vB still works for the company is amazing to me. Personally, I think vB can still be saved, but it seems nobody that makes decisions wants to hear it. They seem to be in some kind of denial that things are as bad as they are.

I think the access issue could be easily resolved by not running the code from within the ACP but make it so you need something like this:

Well I've fixed quite a few hacked forums in my time and truth be told if I think back and honestly think hard... yup it was more often vulnerabilities in vBulletin itself then it was a plugin vulnerability. I just don't think saying you're safer without them is the best thing to do or way to think... of course you're safe on a 100% default board without any customizations UNTIL an exploit is found within vBulletin itself then it's another patch release.

If you google "Powered by vBulletin" I'm pretty sure if you spent a few hours (anyone for that matter) and actually clicked on the links you would find waaaaaaay more customized sites than default... if I can build a business based entirely on vBulletin customization and make enough money to support a wife, three kids, a new car and a house payment then I dare say YES they're required (since that many people are evidently looking to customize it beyond the default appearance and functionality) and the ability to further customize vBulletin should always be there, removing that system was a mistake - someone should address this issue with management repeatedly until they finally open their eyes imo, pass it up the chain of command but do it with some gusto ;).