ok forget all this cos this whole thread stinks of animosity and gets back to the whole who cares, it got 3 installs and most of you wouldn't install it anyway, i'd prefer to have jelsoft buy out HTL and have HTL only installations allowed rather than get into this whole debacle.

the hack will be reviewed, unless you're gonna make a well structured argument then leave the thread, their seems to be alot of useless ranting going on in here.

anyway the reason i posted;

i'm planning on making a groups hack, much the same as msn groups/yahoo groups etc, allowing users to make groups (pretty much a thread outside of the forum directory, with a small gallery and some other stuff) i'm wondering would using this be a violation of the license agreement (it would make almost no changes to the database or files). and would releasing it on here be a problem?

The hack was in a different thread and had about 15 installs (which isn't bad if you see that it has been there for one day only). Not sure who clicked install in this thread ;)

Only Jelsoft can tell you that. Ask them (via the support sytem) and make sure you print out what they say (I have asked them ago if this hack would be legal and they said "yes, sure" - The only problem is I didn't print the result out and now you can see the result...)

if i'm honest i think the hack is blatantly a violation of the JLA and should've been removed, i'm not an elitest, i don't tend to mind when i find out a board was illegitimate, but that's a non-legit board out right, this hack tried to create a loop hole and that's just wrong, people should just go out and buy a license and hosting if they wanna be legit.

although i think the noble thing on the side of Jelsoft would be to buy the code outright and then it's upto them if they wanna release a "vBulletin vBhosting version".

/me thinks this thread is just getting in the way of more pressing issues raised over at vb.com regarding vb.org

Huh? Please explain. Have you seen some clause in the license which we have all missed?

Please understand that we are discussing a very specific licensing agreement with very specific terms in it. I've scoured the agreement and can see no violation. Would you be so kind as to share with us which term, specifically, has been violated, and your reasoning as to how that term applies to this hack?

Thanks! :)

ok so maybe it stands on the JLA but it is wrong none the less

forgetting SQL space, server load etc.

it calls into question the fact that you wanna get off on running a site rather than a community and that is what vBulletin is, it's a forums package.

vBulletin is a product. Nothing more, nothing less. Jelsoft sell that product (well, they license it); they create license agreements and charge a price for that license. There's no "moral" element here at all.

There's also nothing wrong with generating revenue from a website. In fact, large websites cannot be maintained without generating revenue (I pay hundreds of dollars per month for my hosting; without generating some revenue, my family goes hungry).

Even so, revenue isn't the issue here. I don't know why people keep focusing on it.

vBulletin is a software package. It contains a forum, it contains a Calendar. Jelsoft nowhere states we may not use vBulletin for something else than running a community. And, by the way, the forum hosting is perfectly integrated in the community I'm running.

when is the decision gonna be made ?

surely they aint waiting for a date in court as well :)

nah their are official jelsoft meetings all this week, expect an answer by saturday, monday the latest :)

alas i'm the wrong person to get involved in this debate, my compassion concerning this subject isn't what the rest of yours is.

from an admin PoV making revenue, i say buy an add-on license, solves all problems and you continue making money.

from jelsoft, it's a snuff in terms of revenue but alas with an add-on license it's all good.

as i said, the best option would be for jelsoft to buy out the code and release it ASAP.

See, that's the thing. There's no "decision" to be made (Jelsoft doesn't get to "decide" what its licensing agreement says - it is already bound by it). It is legal to use the hack - that's not really in question.

However, vbulletin.org are within their rights not to host the hack, and I have a feeling that that may be what happens. In that case, the hack author would be forced to go elsewhere to distribute it (if he chose to, that it), which would be a shame because then he wouldn't be able to use vbulletin.org's license verification system - and it is certainly in Jelsoft's interests to have him use that.

We'll just have to wait and see. :)

u gotta be winding me up - surely they can make a decision quicker than that.

/me votes for GameCrash HOTM

serious though i dont reckon we see this hack back.

hm, now you mention it, nah. theirs greater issues on the jelsoft agenda, new products and then vb.org and other sister sites which will then segway into this issue. theirs some good stuff to come from that meeting :)

[high]* sabret00the sposts link online, goes back to stalking the shoutbox hack thread for support.[/high]

I have talked this over with people and even they said that it doesn't go against the license that Jelsoft has on it's site. But since the issue is just weather it is allowed he the license DOESN'T matter whatsoever and they can decised not to have the hack no matter what. Just like the lockdown hack isn't allow they can ban this and any other hack without a reason.

Dark Shogun

I'm betting it'd take several days, if not longer.

They can prevent it from being distributed here, sure. They can't prevent people from using it, though.

Thats true. A lot of people including myself have already downloaded this and the author may choose to release it somewhere else if they don't allow it here or at vbulletin-germany.com. It just seems a shame that the legality of this is even an issue.

Dark Shogun

I actually have a copy of the hack :) ... and was going to install it untill it was moved, I have decided to wait for the outcome before i use it.

I think it could take a few days. I think it would be prudent on Jelsofts part not only to review the code but to run it past thier lawyers... If Jelsoft gives the okay about this hack, then it may potentially impact their claims when they pursue real pirates. So this is gonna be a catch 22.

i agree with you, There are a lot more things here that has to be taken into consideration here. I wouldnt want my license voided if the investigation is negative and i am using the hack :(

to that effect, you would (or should) buy a new license every time you create a subforum and put a moderator in charge of it!

The license doesn't automatically get voided just because one party decides so; it gets voided in instances of breach. That's why we have licenses - if it were just a case of "do whatever Jelsoft says" then why have a license at all? Why bother writing one and getting people to agree to it? That's the whole point of licenses: so that both parties are clear as to their obligations.

I'm not using the hack, so it's almost immaterial to me other than an intellectual excercise. However, if I were using it, and Jelsoft were to to tell me that doing so was a "breach" of the license, I would challenge that - because it's not. I certainly wouldn't stop using it.

Jelsoft would then need to test their license in court - and I'm positive that they would not succeed in such a test.

That all said, I think I'm going to bow out of this conversation as it doesn't affect me. I'm really just sticking my nose into other peoples' business. :)

ok hopefully the last post on the subject.

how many of the subforum sites members will actually contribute to your community, will you run a community or just let your subforums make use of your license, how active a roll will you play in the subforums, how much input will you have into the subforums, what about moderation, will that be based on global rules? what if one of the sub-forums is something that you didn't envisage, how much of the content are you going to check to make sure it doesn't void your license? what will the subforums communitys be called? and will the members of said subforums even know you exist?

exactly..

and then trying to pimp your own hack in a thread relating to a discussion of another is downright tasteless, at best, and stupid at worst..

there is no license violation, there is no issue this hack generating revenue vB itself won't see.. there is no issue.. the only issue existing is the fact people want something they now can't get due to someones idealistic view of something that isn't even said in the vB license.. zachaery/faranth/whatever he's called claiming this to be on par witht he lockdown hack is not only stupid, it's idiotic.. they are not even on the same level of hack nor with the same "possible" intention.. sabretoothe jumping on this like it's hot wax for anal hair and praising something not in the LA and then pimping his own upcoming hack is just as rediculous..

now, if a decision is to be made.. make it.. putting this kind of thing off is not only wrong for the forums, it wrong for the creator, users and wanna-be installers of this hack or any other facing this same decision..

this is, at this point, getting intolerable to see everything run amuk and no one caring on the upper levels enough to stop all of it and deal with it in a very reasonable manner.. if users want, deal with the users, even if they can't have.. don't put this stuff off and then pass it off as having no time.. if you have no time, don't disrupt in the first place..

Thank you, you are writing exactly what I'm thinking...

please don't take it so seriously, if i release my hack it won't even be for another 6-8 months at best and that's if i release it! (i still have to learn to code first :() obviously my boyant mood isn't compatible with vb.org members today :(

[high] * sabret00the shall edit the tasteless post in question.[/high]

Another thing, could someone please tell me what this lockdown hack you all talk about is/was? Seems I wasn't here that time...

the lockdown hack is "you must post in order to see the content of this thread" basically like a register in the thread.

I have a hammer in my garage. That hammer was purchased from Home Depot with the implied agreement that I would use it to hammer things. If I use it to prop open a door, have I violated the terms of that agreement?

Furthermore, that hammer can do alot of great things. IMAGINE IT! I could build a house with that hammer! I could make a birds house for sick little birds...I might even use it to hang a picture next to my computer! But then again, I could also use it to build a shell casing for a weapon of mass desctruction. I could use it to bludgeon the head of a person I don't like anymore. I could use it to destroy my house, instead of improve upon it.

The point here is that damn near everything in this world can be used for good or evil. What gives any organization the right to tell us how to use the product we purchase from them? Banning a hack like this would be like the US Government saying that there is a mandatory 5 day waiting period on aluminum tubing because they *might* be used in the process of enriching uranium.

I understand that Jelsoft is interested in protecting their product, but there is a fine line between protectionism and isolationism...

damned! I totally agree. Nice story btw.

I have a copy of this hack and i'll wait till the first stable is out or when jelsoft made their decision (whatever comes first :D)

I really like to see it lol ;)

Wish i seen it before it was gone.

<a href="http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5185" target="_blank">http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/for...&threadid=5185</a> that link still has screen shots for it

Don't see the screenshot. :(

they just took them offline. they were there 30mins ago sorry :(

I downloaded this, installed it and was starting to toy with it until this all came up.

Honestly I see nothing wrong with it, all it does is creates a subforum and puts the creator as a mod (after you approve it)

This does nothing you can not do legally cept save the admin time and set up.

So I guess what I am failing to see is what is so bad about this hack. To give someone a subforum is a far cry from them running a community or even half of one.

I agree :(

That wasn't the correct link (vB2-Version). You can find the vB3 version at http://www.vbulletin-germany.com/for...ad.php?t=10175 contains the screenshots, however it seems you can't download the hack there if you aren't a vB-Germany customer.

why is it available on vb-germany and not on here - i know jelsoft remeoved it but dont they own the other site as well ?

i say if its good enough for the germans its good enough for us :)

opps thanks gc my german is a bit rusty

vB-Germany is owned by Adduco Digital which are resellers of vBulletin. They aren't as incautiously as Wayne Luke is, however I believe if Jelsoft really should decide they don't want to host vBHosting they will remove it there, too.