I think the wink (;)) has become an annoying and overused emoticon in this thread.

For some reason, coming after some of these posts, it seems very condescending to me.

...

Right. Anyway, my wink doesn't mean what I said isn't true. It's true. I'm suprised so many members want comments like that to give them hope. Isn't there a bit more to contributing here besides the hope you'll be a mod one day? There's always got to be that want to help people in your mind. With enough people with that attitude the support here would improve. :)

I think people need to understand one thing - staff here at vB.org are ALL volunteers (with the exception of Wayne and Zachery who are both official Jelsoft employees). The rest of us, including Brad, Xenon and myself, are volunteers - we do not get paid. The turn-around and support at vB.com is better because the staff there are PAID staff - it's their job.

vB.org is my hobby - it's not my job - neither is it the job of any of the mods here who do this in their own time after their studies, or their day jobs.

Scott is right in saying that this site is big enough to have paid staff to run it like vB.com. More needs to be invested into this site - Marco and others who are coding the Hack Database all have their own lives to live - you cannot expect them to quit university and code the hack databse 24 hours a day for the benefit of people and not get paid for it. That makes sense right?

I would like the coders here not to take their frustrations out on the staff here - they are coders like you too, and they don't get paid for all they do in the background, so have a bit of understanding.

There are many things that are out of vB.org staff hands - we try our best, but things like a paid directory is something we have brought up with Jelsoft again and again and it's not up to us to make the final decision.

If you expect professional staff here at vB.org, then tell Jelsoft to hire professional people. :) Staff here are just enthusiasts of vB, just like you. We are no better, we are no worse.

Of course, all of us want to see this site improve, so let's remain constructive in this thread, and instead of looking at problems, let's look at possible solutions.

The issues is not about giving coders moderating privileges. I think someone meantioned this once. The issue is not about giving coders money either. As soon as the thread starts to take a positive direction, it's gets thrown out of context. (not directed towards Erwin) I've posted my suggestions, and are about to post one last final suggestion and hope for the best.

I'll post that in awhile, once I'm done typing it.

I'd just like to point out again, for the record, I'm not re-embursed for any time spent here.

I realize all members need to give a much support at possible. You know as well as I do that the staff here has a life away from the board (we've had this discussion in private). The staff is still very thin and needs to either devote more time or expand a bit.

Support I think that 'most' coders/designers try to devote as much time to support as possible, I find it a matter of pride since it's something I've released. It does get tough when the members never return a thank you or show appreciation. :(

As far as me using the 'wink' in my post to Tony, I wasn't as patient as I should have been in the past to Tony so I'm making an effort to show him I do appreciate him. ;) okay... :)

I guess that's why Zachery feels everyone is expendable and can be abusive to the members (I can provide posts if needed. ie: example)..

It could just be me, but after you said that, it sounded like some people were bitter that they didn't get mentioned even though you said you were naming a few.

I purchased vBulletin last month, but had been coming here since before then because I decided to look for different hacks in advanced. Those mentioned [& some others] have done some really good ones. Too bad it came to this. Someone made a good point in asking what would happen if most of the real good coders left should this continue.

Quick question for those coders: are you starting up a different forum?

main reason i brought a lisense was to get all the cool hacks etc ppl make on here.. :( anyone can use vbulletin.. :(.. some people like me, are still learning the basics.. :(

I want to weigh in on this...but because compared to alot of the heavy weights in here i'm a VB newbie....I am a user as someone called it earlier in the thread...but not for the reason that you implied, and I take exception to being told i'm using people...I leech off peoples work for understanding of the software, php and how to make them work for me to improve my site...I ALWAYS pay credit where credit is due, and I respect the blood sweat and tears of every coder or designer thats part of this community. Reviewing their code has taught me a thing or three, and while i'm still mediocre...I get a bit better all the time...and I have THIS site to thank for it....and by this site I MEAN people like Livewire, Paul M, TheGeek and ZeroTolerence who release complex hacks (and simple ones) that run the gambit for the learning curve for someone like me to learn from.

A few general comments to groups from the newbie:

VB.org staff:
We enjoy this site, cause we keep comming back...but the verbal abuse thats gone on for neigh on 9 pages...has to stop...hambil said it best...we're all admins here....don't insult peoples abilities because of age-old grudges that have no bearing on an experienced member of this community expressing their frustration. He wasn't happy...he told us all why...he didn't say anything that threads all over the site can tell you anyway....community is lacking, and the biggest reason I see is the freedom of speech and the introspection that allows a community TO grow and to move in the direction they naturally progress is being stiffled by staff taking out private problems with individuals publically, and by stiffling ideas...

Disgruntled Coders/Designers of all degrees AND the staff too:
This community if nothing else is an excellent sounding board for ideas and for testing them and watching them come to life. When we lose ANY of you its a blow, because no matter how many installs you have...your work still has value to atleast 1 other person...so its worth SOMETHING....even if you never win HOTM or get a shiny title....when we lose someone who has released ALOT of work we lose the work, but we ALSO lose the resource for questions and help....which to me ends up being the biggest waste...because it creates a break in the cycle of learning....if no one learns from ghosts....

My guess is that no matter how many people get frustrated the community will survive....over time, people will be replaced and the newbie will rise to challenge the master coders of today....problem being that not only is the road harder to travel for the newbie, but the software suffers from the current master coders and designers tightening ranks and not teaching the tricks of the trade....

Thats how I see things....both sides have to actually LISTEN to each other instead of resorting to public pissing contests and bullshit matches....talk TO each other instead of AT each other and both sides might see progress until then your filling the post table for nothing....

my 0.02.

Maybe you should reconsider and explain why I dislike you and came down on you like a ton of bricks Ken, before you namedrop.

I would like to take a moment and sit down and address the facts that people seem to think I feel that everyone and anyone is expendable. This is not what I mean when people come and people go. I am referring to the natural order of life and death. People are born and people die, there is nothing that we can currently do to prevent this from happening. While it is sad when someone dies, dwelling on the issue does not let us move onto the future. Sure, there are good people who leave communities or pass on in real life. However to say that no one could ever do as good as a job as them is not true. When a coder leaves vBulletin.org it is a sad occasion, but it is not the end of life as we know it and we still strive on. Over the years vBulletin.org has lost coders in a number of ways, be it through death, lack of want to keep participating, or real life, but the community did not stop growing, it keep growing. Why? Because that’s what happens in life, new things come and change the way we think and old things pass on. I do not think any life or person at this site is expendable, but I understand the fact that one day they will not be with us any longer and there is not much I can do about it in some respects. With this in mind it is why I say one person, or a small group of people are not the specific life blood of the site, the users who will be here tomorrow, the next day, and the new users who will join us are.

I’d like to make a few other points for anyone who may have missed a post I made. I am _not_ a paid staff member here in any respect, but I am part of the Jelsoft staff as per my specific duties to vBulletin.com in terms of support.

Now, if I have offended you, again I am sorry as that was not my point. If you’d like to chat with me, either about things I said here, or just to get to know me better in general, feel free to send me a pm or talk to me in #vborg when I’m around.

Hello again everybody,

This thread took an interesting turn over night and I would like to say I have a few ideas and comments I'd like to share with the vBcom staff as well as with the vBorg staff in regards to 'how can we improve vborg'.

Before I discuss them even in public I will try to get a chat going this upcoming wednesday when the support staff from vBcom has a meeting planned. Unless they are otherwise occupied at least Colin, Zachery, Wayne and Steve will be there. This should indirectly also help as Zachery and Colin have insight on vBorg and could explain any questions I might have. Anyway, I will see what they think of my comments and ideas and request Wayne and Steve to open dialogue with the vBorg staff in a follow up meeting where the vBorg staff can up some proposals.

I am sure that in private people are discussing matters, and also in any potential meeting, hopefully people understand that the vBcom staff is not fully involved with the vBorg community and that we are redirecting users from vBcom who want to expand their forum software beyond the defaults which vBcom can't provide support for. And that the vBorg staff is here to manage the community to keep things running smoothly and that the vBorg staff is here on a volenteer basis and have come a long way in the last few years since Wayne got involved to help smaller the gap between vBorg/vBcom and their communities.

Please allow the staff from both sites to get up to date on the situation and discuss the matters at hand and come to solutions that is a compromise for everybody who wants to enjoy the vBorg community. These discussions and these potential solutions don't come over one night of ice, so don't expect that either.

What I personally recommend is to get vBcom staff involved to help discuss solutions and help make recommendations to the staff from vBcom that should make the final (big) decisions (like the business manager or CEO), if there are any to make. And I also personally recommend that perhaps a status update on these matters could be semi-scheduled in about X weeks to keep the vBorg community in the loop (but of course that is up to the vBorg staff).

For now, and to stay on topic: LiveWire, I have come to know you on vBorg through your comments, your actions on the site, your contributions and recently through the #vBorg chat channel on our vb chat network where you also have your private chat channel. It is a shame to find out that you have lost your motivation to continue on this web site and I wish you the best of luck with your other projects. And of course, as a vB customer you're always welcome on vBorg.

And to everybody else who shares LWs oppinion I thank you for your feedback and comments they help the vBorg staff and also the vBcom staff to get a better understanding how the community experiences the vBorg web site. I can tell you that we know that the vBorg staff is trying their best and tries to be there for everybody; and I think we also all know it is not easy to run a (big) community and that every community has their ups and downs.

However, I do read some comments here and there that are on the edge of breaking forum rules (hard to avoid sometimes in convs like these) but please rethink before posting because name calling or personally attacking someone doesn't add much to getting to a solution.

Anyhoo-summery
I hardly post on this site for my own reasons but I do read these type of threads and I usually choose not to reply. I said yesterday that I would contact some vBcom staff and a few have already read this thread and Marco has also addressed this to the vBcom staff and he will take it from there. This wednesday I will address this thread and others in our meeting and recommend to start a chat with the vBorg staff and I request the community to allow the staffs to have some time in getting things started and wait for a status update in X weeks (but that's up to the vBorg staff I think).

The only reason I know this is because I was staff here when she was given this honorary role. No-where has it been announced in public, and 99% of community members here don't know her role. She certainly doesn't advertise her role, and whilst I like Amy and her bluntness (and agree with her nine times out of ten), I don't think that her views on non-coders make her suited to bridging a gap between the staff and the members. If anything, it's doing the exact opposite, and alienating the community.

And on a more general note, how many more of these threads is it going to take to make the current staff here realise that it's not what you care or think that matters, it's the members here want that does :)

See, since you think that all the people that download the hacks without giving anything back is the backbone of the community, you would be right.
If there was some form of a record of how many coders there were "back in the day" (before my time), matched up against now, I think you would find there would be less now. I don't call that growth. This site lives only because of people contributing code. You could have six billion people coming in here and asking questions, requesting mods or try to learn how to code their own for their own personal sites, but without those that actually releases mods, this community would die.
You seem to fail to realise this.

It shouldn't be suprising that people might be coding for the status or the money. They want something in return. It's nice to have pure intentions but not everyone has them.

I understand that. I think the coder titles here were a start on trying to get coders and designers recognition for work released. Although, it looks like people aren't *completly* satisfied. But at least the staff did act on this issue. I think we're looking into alternative ways now.

That is a brilliant point

since this thread turned to constructive one....i feel happy...but can i ask every one NOT to call user's(customers)..as leechers.........it would be the first producet in the world where customers are called so...

I apologise if I offended someone with the usage of that term. I swear I didn't mean any offense. I merely found it a shorter term than putting "users that do not contribute to the community in way of hacks" in every other sentence :)

The desire to eat is not a pure intention? Give me a break.

thank you sir ......for this nice attitude.....
again contribution can also be giving feedback, reporting bugs, trying the hacks, giving suggestions for good hacks....

its one circle that should not break....

You know...its all really kinda funny.

I'm one of those 99% here. I'm a nobody when it comes to coding. I bought books, read through them, but just don't 'get it'. I can hack around with code a bit to make it work with my forums or so I can figure out where stuff is broken so I can come back here and search for the problem or plead for help in fixing it.

All of you people who code just amaze me. I'm not a dumb fellow, I set up advanced networks, configure routers and firewalls, set up custom routing solutions for load balancing, build networks from the computers up...but I simlpy lack that creative spark that lets me code something cool. I come here and read the hacks that people come up with and post and am just amazed. I don't use them all, but I use like 4 pages worth of y'alls codes on my forums.

Now, that being said, as a generalization, all of us who can't code here have gotten a bit of the cold shoulder before and become frustrated over it. Being told to go learn coding for yourself just isn't helpful (and yeah, I've been told that before, especially in the older days). I'm very appreciative of some of the ways this foum has changed, where its become easier to get "plugins" for our forums and how its become modular so if something breaks, we can troubleshoot easier by turning all the plugins off and then on one at a time to figure out which two don't play nice. I've noticed as well, that because of this, stuff has gotten fixed or made more compatible more quickly and I see fewer of the posts where people are told to go figure it out themselves.

I think that sometimes, all you people forget what its like to be on the bottom of the barrel and reliant on someone elses talents. Yes, we paid for a commercial product -- but alot of us paid because we came here and saw YOU guys and gals and your code releases.

I've paid for some people to help me fix stuff before and paid for a code addon or two, but I'd just move away to a free product if everyone started charging for their hacks -- there are too many nice and competitive alternatives these days in the free side, then to have to put up with everyone getting upset and taking their toys and going home. You coders make vbulletin worth the money and when you leave the community, you not only hurt yourselves (because fewer people will end up supporting paid hacks in the long run), but you hurt others in the long run -- the ones at the mercy of your missing or now commercialized talent (and that goes for anyone who releases cool code, not just the master coders or the coding staff).

And for the record, I have helped a bit here and there when I could, but its rare that I can, I'm not 100% a leech :) just mostly one. But I appreciate all of you guys. I also know that the people here have their hands ultimately tied down by the people over at vb.com and they aren't the most receptive to change and new ideas....but I've been here a long time, like alot of you and I have seen alot of changes...I have seen them eventually concede and change a few things here.

So, from someone not inbroiled in the politics around here, here's my 2 coppers worth. Stop threating to take your ball away and go home...its not an us vs them, be that coders vs non-coders, staff vs members or anything else...if there is going to be improvment here, the staff and the lead members of the community all need to put aside differences and see if things can be worked out and improved, and if someone's hands are tied, stick it on the table for review in 6 months...Everyone's just too passionate about all of this and all that does is making working out dreary details difficult.

Well, thanks for listening.

+1 to everything in Thanatos' post.

I love the coders here. THEY are the reason I keep coming back to vb.org, not that you all aren't charming but I don't stay around for the sparkling conversation.

oh ca'mon '.'

things are not in order here i guess.

Dean, you dislike me because I ripped off a style years ago and took it down. You tried everything in your power to get me banned. Even Jelsoft denied your request to ban me. The funny thing about you is, you tried to get me banned over ripping a style that had nothing to do with vBulletin. It was a designing site and Jelsoft saw that it had nothing to do with them. I had my licenses, and I didn't break any of the Jelsoft TOS. It's sad that you still have this personal vendetta agaist me, but the best thing vBulletin.org did was demote you. I think alot of thst staff here agree to, but I can't speak for all of them. Just some of them that I've spoken to. ;)

@Floris
Thank you for your comments and letting us know what is going on. I think that main problem with this community is that Jelsoft doesn't get invloved in it. I belive that the 'gap' between the two communities could be even smaller if Jelsoft got invloved in the vBOrg community somehow.

I'm going to post the idea I have in mind that could help bring back the modivation coders once had in the coders forum, when I get back home.

Just for the record, i wish i could code. I'm like Thanatos. I tried, and just can't get it. If I could, and could envision hacks, I'd make some and release them when I had time. But I can't. My talents lie in other places. So I click install, I appreciate, I try to remember to always say thank you, and if people want to sell me a branding free option I buy it.

So I'm a 'user' here, and that's all I can be.

Livewire said:
The community here gives nothing back to the people who spend hours beyond hours coding something that will never make them a dime.

What does this mean? Are you talking about people like me, who use the hacks and install them? Those of us who just can't code? Are we the 'community' who is giving nothign back?
What else do you want me to do? I click install, I say thank you, I pay when I can or it's suggested. There's nothing else I am supposed to do, or CAN do, as far as I can see. Am I misunderstanding this comment? What kind of 'give back' do you want from us 'users' in the 'community'?
I just don't understand...

I don't even know where to begin in breaking down what you just said. But again you're speaking as if you know staff procedures, and I'm not in any position to divulge them. But I digress, it was illegal what you did and wrong, and I hold no personal vendetta against you at this time.

Dean/Livewire, please move on from old differences. :)

Jilly, I don't think Livewire means you personally in his posts :)

Many members hear do thank coders, either by clicking 'install' or by posting a note in the hacks. I could show you threads full of them - but there are also many who do not - they come, they take, they leave - or worse, they come, they take, they moan it's not quite what they want, or they can't follow (simple) instructions. Those are the people who spoil it, and make you wonder if it was worth it - and they seem to be growing in number.

On a totally different subject - a thing that bugs me sometimes is the secrecy and stuff that is sometimes fed to us. When a suggestion is made, or a question is asked - it is refused or fobbed off with the most obviously bullshit reasons. People can see through these and get annoyed / heated.

Hmmm...
Maybe there could be a way to change it, so you can't get to the files to download UNTIL you click install or do something else that indicates you have or are going to install it. And make no 'uninstall' button available, so people can't maliciously come back and click 'uninstall' just to be mean. There could be a way to remove it from your list of installed hacks in your user cp, but no way to publicly 'diss' the hack by clicking uninstall.

It's already good that the hack authors can see who has clicked install. Maybe there is a way to make it so a user can't post in a hack's thread, unless he has clicked the install button or somehow been 'verified' as having installed it.

Maybe they could also start a policy of if a person is moaning or complaining in a support for a hack thread, or being rude or ungrateful, that their post gets deleted (lol). Then they can rephrase what they said, or figure it out themselves :)

Well i guess i will put in my .02 at this point........That last post that livewire posted is my biggest concern, Post is here ........I have only been messing around with php coding for a short while and it has moved in leaps and bound's in the last year. It is amazing what can be done now with this code to make a website owner's site something enjoyable to his/her user's.
One thing i have noticed though is, anytime someone tries to help improve a code, or help update a code.....People come out of the woodwork to be sure and let the person know that they in No way, had the right to improve the code, or should they take any credit for helping with the rewritting of the code. If you look back over the last few months, it seem's that alot of the younger up and coming coder's who try to show the community something kewl they figured out could be done to better another code, the bashing begins.....I try to be positive about the situation and give kudo's to the person for their attempt at learning php and giving back to the community and whether i am right or wrong, i feel it take's everyone to use, improve, comment, find bug's, etc..in coding.
I can only speak for me, but i havent' offered any code back to the community for this reason. At first i was excited to see a program i was messing with work and work nicely at that. But after seeing little comment's from people about stealing code or you shouldn't be messing with that code, etc......I backed off on helping improve the hack for the community.....I will even share the hack i was working with, and even though the owner of the code said we could try to keep it functioning, my fear of being bashed around here kept me from sharing it with others.
Back in january of 06 when alot of us moved from 3.0 to 3.5, we found alot of the mods we were using, no longer functioned. One of my first attempt's at helping was to tackle the timeslip database program My attempt , which i started to try to release bit's and piece's of the mod's i had made to the coding. Shortly thereafter, i recieved a couple pm's telling me i could not release another's code without his permission. With out wanting to get into the he said she said, i backed off and removed my zip from the site. The person's that emailed me, without looking fully into the author's post where he clearly stated that it was okay to start trying to modify his code, since he was no longer going to support it. I personally even recieved help from several other coder's to help expidite the hack's progress and publish to the user's of vbulletin.org......but with my lack of understanding all of the rule's that are within this site, this is what i had to do remove code ........which in my personal opinion was a shame. It left me feeling that coding could only be done by certain people, and that i shouldn't be offering up my attempt's to help improve what are already great hacks.

I guess instead of me rambling on, i just want the coder's that are currently here to know that i for one appreciatet them and i am sorry that people continue to bash and criticize your work. I for one, with my limited knowledge, have tried to give back and help take some of the wieght off your shoulders. I hope this entire issue can be addressed in a positive way. Right now, it seem's we are still headed down a negative road.....and hopefully vbulletin.org can come up with some time to start adding area's and suggestion's to and within the site..........


Doug (hotwheels)

I think you've got to look at what the users' attitude to coders is. Some are rude I agree, but that's part and parcel of any forum sadly.

However, there are many, many of us who religiously click the install buttons, search the threads for answers before posting, thank the coders etc etc.

Personally I rarely have to post in hack threads, as by the time I come to install it, any question I might have is already answered.

Nice post, Thanatos (#141). :)

Administration and Jelsoft are aware of the issues raised here which are multiple and includes (as a summary):

1. Coders not feeling appreciated for the work they put into the site.
2. Non-coders feel that their questions are unanswered by staff or coders.
3. Members feel that vB.org staff do not listen to them and take them for granted.
4. Personality differences between certain members, and between certain staff and members (and dare I say, between staff from vB.org and vB.com)
5. Promised changes have not come to pass as yet.

I want to point out that the above things are recurrent things on this site, and I have to say, have always exist to a certain extent since I've been a member here. At different times, they get raised and a long thread like this comes about.

This is not to say these are not real problems that need to be dealt with. What I want to say is that so far people have listed problems, but solutions have been few and far between. I would like members to start coming up with possible solutions so that we can move forward.

Personally happened to me when I pmed each staff member about one that I felt needed addressing. Received back on reply from Boofo. Was helpful, but the rest fell on deaf ears :/

I don't think that coders should be permitted to release unsupported modifications/hacks.
*ducks and runs*

When a coder releases a hack and then doesn't support it, then there are bugs or simple questions that need answering and the author isn't around to do so, it leads to frustration and anger, and makes that hack author look bad. Yes sometimes it IS something as simple as the user not reading the instructions correctly......... sometimes it's not.

I, for one, appreciate every single coder here. And for every hack I've used and presently use, I've let the author know of my appreciation. As a forum owner and admin, I am learning, slowly, what to look for, what makes what work, how to switch and change things around, etc. But I am also intelligent enough to know that my talents are in other areas and to put it simply... a coder, I ain't.
As for the question of hacks and commercializing them, etc.... are they worth the money? You bet. Would I spent my money on a good hack? You bet........ IF I had the money to spend. Fact is, many of us forum owners spent everything we had for the vB license and simply cannot afford to pay for hacks as well. One of the major reasons I chose vB over IBP was the modifications available.
So if many of these coders go commercial, then my reason for staying with vB is gone, because I simply can't afford to pay for them, and I'm willing to bet that 50% of vB users are in my boat. And no, I'm not saying, necessarily, that we'd leave vB for IBP, I'm simply saying that we wouldn't be able to further modify our vB.

My beef with Jelsoft is that they move way to slow with VB and it seems like the same thing is happening here with the hack DB. VB still has an edge over every other forum, but for how long? Jelsoft needs to speed up the development cycle and they need people to do this. There is great talent at VB.org, so why dont they start hiring some coders to help speed up the development on VB and on VB.org ?

Here is a great thread on VBs slow development cycle
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178350

You changed your post before I could quote it. ;)

As for subscriptions, once you start doing that then the members have more reasons for being upset and demanding things and to me that takes all the fun and enjoyment out of putting a site up in the first place. ;)

BOOFO, I posted a reply to Ohiosweetheart and the post was auto merged with my last one. I wanted to suggested to her that she uses VBs payment gateway to sell premium subscriptions.

I would also like Staff to come up with possible solutions ;)

If only it were as easy as a few simple solutions, but a few things about each of the above.

1. A hard one, personally I have no requirement for financial reward unless the amounts are more than vb.org would ever be likely to pay - winning something like a HOTM would mean more to me than $50. How about features on well known coders - I see another forum does regular inteviews with staff members, but no one ever does it for coders - 15 minutes of fame can do wonders towards making a person feel appreciated.

2. I'm not really sure how you can do anything about that as far as coders go - but staff should make an effort to answer questions, and if they are site related questions or suggestions - not avoid them with vague non commital answers - the hacks database being a prime example, stop fobbing people off with "it's coming soon, people have lives" - explain it's delayed for three/whatever months and exactly why - people hate bullshit answers.

3. See part 2 above, lack of answers is what makes people think no one is listening. Staff should possibly think more before posting, and digging themselves into a hole they can't get out of (and yes, members as well). I also think the way staff are chosen should be looked at - there seems to be zero member involvement - the last two moderators just appeared out of the blue. No warning, no involvement, nothing. This immediate gets people thinking of "jobs for the boys" - xxxxxxx is now a mod because he's Brad's mate (that's just an example Brad :)) Also - what are peoples specific roles on the site - no one really knows (for example, we suddenly get told in this thread that Amy is a 'member liason' - that's certainly news to me, and everyone else I would imagine - and again - no member involvement in the choice).

4. They will always happen, the difference is that Staff should try and be more professional about it and perhaps avoid the posts of people that they clash with (and I guess that would work for members as well).

5. As already covered in point 2 - keep people informed of delays and the reasons, members can be quite understanding when things are properly explained. Also, Brad did cover an idea in a post several pages back - basically more member involvement in projects for the site.

Well that's my random collection of thoughts - no doubt some will agree, others will disagree, but at least I tried. Sorry if it seems slightly biased towards what staff should do - but that's just the way it turned out - after all they are in the best position to make changes. :)

Ouch! No need to scream my name. ;)

Regarding the hack DB, those were the only answers we could give because we didn't exactly know any more about its status of completion at times when members asked about it. But I do like your coder interview idea. Thank you for these suggestions Paul.