That doesn't mean his arguments aren't valid.

I completely agree with all his points on template system. Its bloated, updating is a nightmare, editing is a nightmare, reordering elements isn't possible, which leads to all styles using the same boring default templates set.

When I was working with vBulletin templates I had to write my own mod which exported templates to editable files (php for css templates, html for other templates), so I won't have to use horrible tiny textarea and could use BBEdit instead. I feel sorry for majority of designers who are using control panel textarea, its not a tool for editing templates.

Every update, which are out very often, changes something in templates. Often its just a few tabs/spaces, but its still marked as a new version, which means I have to revert my custom template and then have to do changes again. As coder I can handle that, but what about users? For users its too complex, so even if user was using a cool style that wasn't yet another simple header/footer change of the default style, it means he has to stick to default style so reverting templates won't cause any compatibility problems.

I do hope template system will be rebuilt in v4 and all html will be separated from php, which would allow designers to create styles that use different order of elements, which might lead to designers releasing some cool looking layouts.

There is actually a feature in debug mode that does this for you and has been available since vBulletin 2.X.
http://vbcodex.com/showthread.php?t=28

A new three-way diff/merge system will be introduced in vBulletin 4 that should make most template modifications automatically when upgrading to newer versions of the vBulletin 4 series. Though users will need to edit templates less for basic style changes.

The rewrite of the Style and Templating System is one of the core focuses of vBulletin 4. In future versions, we'll look at reducing the number of overall templates since new structures will reduce the need for them. See:
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=217569
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=217570

Awesome.

Well of course.. and most here are vBulletin fans.. The difference is the guy wasn't talking out of his rear-end. He had personal quirks with vBulletin just as I'm sure a lot of us do.. he was speaking 100% on his personal experience with both softwares, making his points worth reading, and valid.

Wayne, I for one appreciate the updates with vB4 and all, but in this case, I feel it's a little irrelevant. The article, and opinions expressed in this thread are solely based on vB3.X series, since that's all we have to work with. You may not intend to, but it seems like you're arguing vB3's issues with vB4.. "Yeah, but vB4 will do this and this and this" (obviously not a direct quote).. I mean, you can sit here all day and tell us what vB4 will bring, but the fact is, until we have that in our hands, all we have is vB3.. And I personally have several quirks with vB3.. We don't need to really get into that though.

The point is, Jelsoft is losing customers because of this. If just ONE customer is able to find an alternative that works better for them, it hurts the company.. Now, I understand you can't please everyone, and keeping ALL customers for life is impossible.. but most of the stuff he's touched in the article is something that I feel could/should have been taken into account way way before vB4... I mean, is Jelsoft just kind of hoping that vB4 will convince those who have moved on to come back? Or do they just simply not care and are more hopeful to future customers?

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's very fair to argue this article with something that very very few have actually laid their eyes, let alone their hands on. And perhaps you weren't necessarily arguing the article, more so comments to the article.. I still feel it's a little irrelevant.

I think its very relevant. It will be released eventually and its good to know that issues people are having with vB 3 are being addressed in vB 4.

this whole article is irrelevant, it's comparing a CMS to a forum..lol
lets next compare a motorcycle to a pickup truck..lol


pickup trucks FTW :D

I think I'm going to have to disagree with you there. At least from my point of view, I was drawn to vB due to its flexibility, a.k.a. it's wide range of options and its large selection of free mods and themes.

best solution

Drupal for frontpage
VB for forum

case closed!

I don't see how making the software easier to use and update in future versions is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The comments were it was too difficult to upgrade and the style was archaic. Both of which are being changed in the upcoming version. Asking us to go back and retrofit these changes in previous versions or assuming that each version exists in a vacuum and the software isn't malleable is what should be considered irrelevant.