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-   -   Staff Members: Election by Senior Members and Above (https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=117465)

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Vision
Thank you, Boofo, for stepping forward. I have never expected it, and it has surprised me in a good way.

To make it straight: Coding skills do not affect your moderation duties, at least they do not seem to. And correct, you haven't come to me too often, but let it be known that the last question you asked is the primary cause of this discussion. Based on that last question, what is the reason you, and not someone else, are the leader of the coding team? Are you there to pick others who are skilled enough to fill the position (that's what you said yourself in the next post)? That would explain it, but the current composition of the coding team doesn't make it seem to be the case. I am just curious to find out what the real reason is.

Dean C
Thank you for your post (even though you disagree with the idea).



Nominations of those who show initiative is how you can easily find out who would actually be willing to actively contribute. That's just my opinion though. To clarify, here's how I envision it:

1. A coder/designer proves capability by releasing a lot of work of high quiality and/or usefulness.
2. That coder/designer communicates (in one way or another) that he or she wants to do be on the coding / design team.
3. Existing staff either approves or disapproves the request, followed by a release of a public poll, the purpose of which is to determine whether the person will be actually elected.
Heh. You said a lot of what i already have and what i think as well. Hence, why it's quoted.

Corriewf 06-02-2006 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan
I think we already gave an update on that, from several staff members and including Wayne himself.

No not really..... There was a lot of " Quit taking stabs at the staff " and " lets try to treat each other with respect ", but if I missed the actual post with the update, please quote it.

Thanks. :)

peterska2 06-02-2006 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gio~logist
Also, the reason a lot of people are there is because vb.org consideres people that work with templates to be designers. HTML is actually a coding language, is it not?
Exactly my point, I am a HTML coder which lands me in the designer group. I'm not, nor never have been, although do not rule out for the future, a PHP coder.

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Vision
Firstly, no names were mentioned. At least, I haven't mentioned any.

The reason for this conversation to be public is that it would be very difficult to have this particular conversation in private. If this was private, there would be no way to have input from everyone. Besides, it is not possible to have more than two people in a private conversation...
Yes. Also, this topic is for a public solution.

hambil 06-02-2006 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gio~logist
Take a screenshot of your website, then compare it to your existing vbulletin. Same design, just no function. Enough said.
Great point! I love nothing more than non-functional design. I prefer all my designs that way.

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corriewf
No not really..... There was a lot of " Quit taking stabs at the staff " and " lets try to treat each other with respect ", but if I missed the actual post with the update, please quote it.

Thanks. :)
Wayne made a minor update. However, it was a bit general.

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
Great point! I love nothing more than non-functional design. I prefer all my designs that way.
That's what a design is. A design and the implementation of a design are two different things. You should know this, after all, you're a professional coder with years of practice and several degrees.

Paul M 06-02-2006 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gio~logist
Yes. Also, this topic is for a public solution.
In your opinion ;)

Are a few people perhaps just a little bitter that they didn't get chosen ?

Anyway, time for me to leave the playground, I have to get some sleep and then catch a plane to Spain. See you all in a week or so. Remember that playtime ends when the bell sounds ..... :D

akanevsky 06-02-2006 09:30 PM
Quote:
Are a few people perhaps just a little bitter that they didn't get chosen ?
As I pointed out in the first post, I do not wish to be on vB.org's coding team at this time, even if I was chosen. So no, I am certainly not bitter at that.

hambil 06-02-2006 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gio~logist
That's what a design is. A design and the implementation of a design are two different things.
No they aren't. A design HAS to be functional. Imagine a building design with no doors, windows or elevators.

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M
In your opinion ;)

Are a few people perhaps just a little bitter that they didn't get chosen ?

Anyway, time for me to leave the playground, I have to get some sleep and then catch a plane to Spain. See you all in a week or so. Remember that playtime ends when the bell sounds ..... :D
Heh. Not at all. I said it before and i'll say it again. The second i heard about this, i pmed the admins willing to help and even pmed brad letting him know what i am capable of. I was and still am willing to help out. However, me not being chosen yet/at all is honestly the least of my worries. I and a few others just felt that some people can do a better job and wanted to know why those people are not given the chance.

Dean C 06-02-2006 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M
In your opinion ;)

Are a few people perhaps just a little bitter that they didn't get chosen ?

Anyway, time for me to leave the playground, I have to get some sleep and then catch a plane to Spain. See you all in a week or so. Remember that playtime ends when the bell sounds ..... :D
Paul, why do you have to be condescending? Nevertheless, have a nice trip :)

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
No they aren't. A design HAS to be functional. Imagine a building design with no doors, windows or elevators.
Wow. Another irrelevant analogy. The building design will have all of that included. However, it is not the designer's job to build it.

hambil 06-02-2006 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gio~logist
Wow. Another irrelevant analogy. The building design will have all of that included. However, it is not the designer's job to build it.
But it has to be a functional design. The building has to hold up under stress, and a million other things. It has to have the right number of doors and elevators for the expected number of people using it. It has to have enough bathrooms, etc. etc...

Design isn't just pictures. It's usability, standards, knowing what do with CSS and what to do with graphics. Did you know those nice little rounded tabs for v3Arcade are done completely with css?

Call it 'bragging' if you want, but this is what I've done for a living for 20+ years, and I do know what I am talking about.

Gio~Logist 06-02-2006 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
But it has to be a functional design. The building has to hold up under stress, and a million other things. It has to have the right number of doors and elevators for the expected number of people using it. It has to have enough bathrooms, etc. etc...

Design isn't just pictures. It's usability, standards, knowing what do with CSS and what to do with graphics. Did you know those nice little rounded tabs for v3Arcade are done completely with css?

Call it 'bragging' if you want, but this is what I've done for a living for 20+ years, and I do know what I am talking about.
They put their design together. Yes, they take all of that into consideration. However, the bottom line is that they do not build it. It doesn't take years of experience to understand that, just some common sense. Now, lets move on from the question of "what makes a designer".

Anyways, i will be gone for a bit. All of this talk has made me hungry :p

Corriewf 06-02-2006 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
No they aren't. A design HAS to be functional. Imagine a building design with no doors, windows or elevators.
No, that's called, my old apartment.

hambil 06-02-2006 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corriewf
No, that's called, my old apartment.
Prison? :p

akanevsky 06-02-2006 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
But it has to be a functional design. The building has to hold up under stress, and a million other things. It has to have the right number of doors and elevators for the expected number of people using it. It has to have enough bathrooms, etc. etc...

Design isn't just pictures. It's usability, standards, knowing what do with CSS and what to do with graphics. Did you know those nice little rounded tabs for v3Arcade are done completely with css?

Call it 'bragging' if you want, but this is what I've done for a living for 20+ years, and I do know what I am talking about.
I don't see how what you are talking about has anything to do with the topic - If I remember correctly, it is not about deciding what the functions of coders and designers should be.

Boofo 06-02-2006 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
Prison? :p
He did his time. Give the poor felon a chance, will you please? :cross-eyed:

hambil 06-02-2006 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Vision
I don't see how what you are talking about has anything to do with the topic - If I remember correctly, it is not about allocating the functions of coders and designers.
But, it got off on a tangent of qualifications, and I was addressing that.

As for the original topic of the thread, voting on staff, I've seen many boards try it, and very few succeed. It often becomes a popularity contest with members infighting and 'campaigning' and has little to do with who is best of the job.

MJM 06-02-2006 09:46 PM
I have always found this curiously puzzling ...
Company provides interactive software, demonstrates usefullness and functions of application on own site.

Software includes ability to take polls.

Company rarely uses polls to demonstrate it's value or further develop the features' usefulness.


:confused:

Corriewf 06-02-2006 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boofo
He did his time. Give the poor felon a chance, will you please? :cross-eyed:
That's right! ReD DrAgOnZ Fo LiFeZ sOnZ!

Now who wants to be called a designer in prison?

Boofo 06-02-2006 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean C
Boofo, I'm sorry but I'm not going to accept this arguement in its slightest. HTML is used to build web page designs into their on-screen form. You'd say an architect is a designer, but not the builders who put together the building.
Without the builders, where would the architect be? They both are equally important and need one another.

Corriewf 06-02-2006 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boofo
Without the builders, where would the architect be? They both are equally important and need one another.
What about the surveyers? Would that be a senior member like myself?

Boofo 06-02-2006 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corriewf
What about the surveyers? Would that be a senior member like myself?
Surveyors are important, too. But only if they have never done prison time. :cross-eyed:

akanevsky 06-02-2006 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hambil
But, it got off on a tangent of qualifications, and I was addressing that.

As for the original topic of the thread, voting on staff, I've seen many boards try it, and very few succeed. It often becomes a popularity contest with members infighting and 'campaigning' and has little to do with who is best of the job.
Do you think individuals would spend a lot of time on campaigning for a position, the duties of which they were not really going to fulfill?

GaryP 06-02-2006 10:02 PM
What the flipping heck is going on around here?

On my site we use a simple vBulletin feature if someone wants to make a complaint. It's called the Contact Us page.

I strongly suggest that instead of complaining like this, and possibly upseting people of a sensitive nature, that you start using the Contact Us page to make any complaints. That way it will be dealt with by the people who can deal with it appropraiately - namely the site administrators.

Does it matter if someone is a coder ro a designer? a staff member or a user? a regular member like myself? no it doesn't.

Everyone should just take a chill pill and stop worrying about who does what and whyw itht he staff. Thats the site administrators resposibilitty and I am sure that they know what they are doing. IF you want to ever have half a hope of becomeing staff, you must first learn to act responsibly. Noone anyweher will have people on their staff who are irresponsible and immature regardless of if it is a webiste, or a real life company.

The most important thing is that everyone leanrs to get along and stops all the bickering that is going on.

Corriewf 06-02-2006 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boofo
Surveyors are important, too. But only if they have never done prison time. :cross-eyed:
Are you trying to say ive stole sheetrock from you cause that wasn't me.... :tired:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Vision
Do you think individuals would spend a lot of time on campaigning for a position, the duties of which they were not really going to fulfill?

Reminds me of the Kerry/Bush election..... :(

akanevsky 06-02-2006 10:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryP
I strongly suggest...
Before suggesting anything and even before posting, please read through the thread, as you, judging from your post, have no slightest idea of what's going on. That includes both the reasons for this thread and what was posted by others (staff and non-staff) afterwards.

Quote:
Reminds me of the Kerry/Bush election.....
Yeah, but this is a bit different. No serve terms and preservation of senior administrators is what wasn't there during presidential elections...

Corriewf 06-02-2006 10:07 PM
Oh and while im thinking about it.... How come there is no Senior member team....

I think Boofo should lead that!

michaelbenson 06-02-2006 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Vision
And I strongly suggest that you read through a thread before posting, as you, judging from your post, have no slightest idea of what's going on.
Regardless, Gary has a point. By creating these numerous threads taunting the already sensitive idea of what the general criteria to become a staff member is, you are doing nothing to formulate and build a community, more so you are dividing it between those who are in favour of a forum run by the staff, and those who want the forum "ran" by the contributors.

GaryP 06-02-2006 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psionic Vision
And I strongly suggest that you read through a thread before posting, as you, judging from your post, have no slightest idea of what's going on. That includes both the reasons for this thread and what was posted by others (staff and non-staff) afterwards.
The reson for the thread was that you want to vote for staff members so that you and your pals get on staff and people that you don't like dont.

The staff got involved when you started attacking a member of staffs right to be on the team.

From there it desecended into anarchy.

This is a lot of little children who are throwing their toys out of the pram and just making themselves look like people who should not even be allowed near a computer.

Dean C 06-02-2006 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boofo
Without the builders, where would the architect be? They both are equally important and need one another.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm trying to say. A builder is not a designer. He has absolutely no creative input on the construction or design of a building. I digress, and to bed I go.

akanevsky 06-02-2006 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelbenson
Regardless, Gary has a point. By creating these numerous threads taunting the already sensitive idea of what the general criteria to become a staff member is, you are doing nothing to formulate and build a community, more so you are dividing it between those who are in favour of a forum run by the staff, and those who want the forum "ran" by the contributors.
Can you suggest a better way of doing it, considering what I already said about private conversations a few posts above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean C
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm trying to say. A builder is not a designer. He has absolutely no creative input on the construction or design of a building. I digress, and to bed I go.
Hambil, "The building has to hold up under stress"? A building drawn on paper certainly won't hold up.
It is the architect's job to actually pile the bricks. Once again, however, this has nothing to do with the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryP
The reson for the thread was that you want to vote for staff members so that you and your pals get on staff...
That statement proves that you have not read the thread. You have not even throughly read the first post... Pity, provided the important parts are highlighted in bold.

Boofo 06-02-2006 10:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelbenson
Regardless, Gary has a point. By creating these numerous threads taunting the already sensitive idea of what the general criteria to become a staff member is, you are doing nothing to formulate and build a community, more so you are dividing it between those who are in favour of a forum run by the staff, and those who want the forum "ran" by the contributors.
Well said, sir. ;)

Dean C 06-02-2006 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryP
This is a lot of little children who are throwing their toys out of the pram and just making themselves look like people who should not even be allowed near a computer.
Questioning someone's authority is by no means a reason to comment on their maturity. It's funny how easy it is for people to throw maturity comments around thesedays, when it's often those who make the comments who are the ones being childish.

However I agree with what's been said; this thread has gone slightly off topic and my opinion has been stated already.

MPDev 06-02-2006 10:22 PM
In difference to everything else that has been said, I fully support a site owners right to pick whomever they please to represent and moderate their site. The people who pay the bills are not accountible to anyone here, IMO; so hire who you think will do the best job and I'll continue to contribute in a meaningful way.

You can't please everyone here, so pick a path and follow it.

akanevsky 06-02-2006 10:23 PM
Quote:
those who want the forum "ran" by the contributors.
You are misunderstanding the point. Not "ran" by contributors, but contributed to by a small number of elected staff members... I can't believe it is so hard to understand.

Quote:
In difference to everything else that has been said, I fully support a site owners right to pick whomever they please to represent and moderate their site. The people who pay the bills are not accountible to anyone here, IMO; so hire who you think will do the best job and I'll continue to contribute in a meaningful way.
I agree, but elections do not prevent a site's owner from making the final decision.

MPDev 06-02-2006 10:28 PM
I would suggest that elections would open up a whole new can of worms, but thats just my opinion. I would say that you could make recommendations in private, but decisions on how a site is run should fall to the owners.

I would simply ask all of you who own sites consider if these types of policies would be acceptible to your forums.

When I hire employees for my companies, I don't mind letting them get interviewed by their peers who will be working with them and getting feedback, but I make the final call on who gets hired and its not open for a vote.

(Edit: I'm not knocking your idea, maybe just an issue of choice of words is all.)

Boofo 06-02-2006 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPDev
I would suggest that elections would open up a whole new can of worms, but thats just my opinion. I would say that you could make recommendations in private, but decisions on how a site is run should fall to the owners.

I would simply ask all of you who own sites consider if these types of policies would be acceptible to your forums.

When I hire employees for my companies, I don't mind letting them get interviewed by their peers who will be working with them and getting feedback, but I make the final call on who gets hired and its not open for a vote.

(Edit: I'm not knocking your idea, maybe just an issue of choice of words is all.)
Where do I sign up? ;)


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