I've tested Xenforo and i know i didn't like it, especially the admin cp features. It is missing so many default vb features.

I am not going to praise a product which needs at least 2 - 3 years of development to feel somewhat complete. That is my stance on Xenforo forum.

Like that is your stance on xenforo forum, it is the stance of many coders on vb who left it for xenforo or Ipb. So maybe you should respect their stance/decision and not complain that they don''t come back to vb so they can acomodate you.

I wonder if Chevrolet type forums get discussions like this comparing Chevy to Ford? :p

Long story short the situation is "iffy" at the moment... many coders went to Xen but because their site welcomes them, has an area for paid mods and such. Was this because it lacked so many vBulletin features as Katie put it ever so lightly or was it to help improve the number of add-ons by doing so in-turn helping sell the base product? Heck I don't know and unless Kier or someone else from xen specifically stated so no sense drawing conclusions but we can see that many like that system and that's from the last time I was on the site which was well over a year ago, by now I would surmise things are much better at the xenforo site especially since the lawsuit was dropped/settled.

Does it have the same number of add-ons vBulletin 4 does? No but give it time, how the current setup is seems to work well and is sure to improve. When/If we finally implement something like that here though you'll see many coders return (not an official statement or hint although it has been discussed many times over, possibility mind you = maybe :p).

Although to be fair and flat out honest, if you code well and have a good business structure and work ethic then running off to xenforo just because it seems to welcome coders with open arms would have been silly - I've seen many say "I'm no longer coding for vB only Xenforo" and that's just stupid to say and do in my opinion - if you have talent and are in it to make money (why you argued you ran to xen in the first place i.e. paid mod area/selling them there etc) then why not code for both? Some people contradict themselves so much it makes me laugh more than some of you at statements by members here who you should clearly know do not understand coding at all.

Edit: Moved to community lounge, seemed out of place being in just vB5 general discussions ;).

But yet you're still here and posting!!Why not just move on? Seeing you have made your intentions clear!

I'm still a license holder, I still support my addons when the need arises, and I still help out users in the vB4 section.

That I think vB5 is utter crap and I won't touch it with a stick does not mean I can't do that anymore, does it? And that I do that, does - the other way round - not mean I can't say what I think of vB5.

My consequence was to leave the vB5 alpha/beta testing team once it was clear that IB would pull the same stunt they did with vB4 just once again.

No, in fact, its laudable and I, for one, appreciate it.

The goal of this thread really is not to take sides between VBulletin and Xenforo but to support both products.

This thread was intended to reveal the cloudy truth. Many VB customers vent their anger at vb (because of 5.x or lack of listening to customers' demands), by supporting Xenforo and that is part of the big reality but they haven't realized that vb 4.x is still there and can improve a lot until vb 5.x becomes more complete of a product. IB wants $$, so they will do anything to deliver a good product.

Now for Xenforo, I don't see how possibly a team of 2-3 developers will be able to reach VB level of default features so soon, that is why they will need at least take 2-3 years of development,it is far from complete. For ex they took a short cut toward the editor features by not implementing CKeditor, that is time consuming, something they won't spend time on because they don't have the capability, they don't have that many developers.

This is all about time and competition and for vb 5.x to become more complete, they will need 2-3 years, and same goes for Xenforo.

But VB has a long history and we customers should not be put in a situation where we have to decide which team should we support and join because i am one of many refusing to join the bandwagon.

Mike has pointed out the truth:

A bit off topic, but implementing CKeditor would take more than time, it would take money too. CKeditor is not free in the usage context of vBulletin or XenForo. An OEM license is well over $1000.00.

More and more of the large forums are now switching to XenForo, some of largest in the UK I have noticed are now using Xen. Why?? Because, support from third party coders is dropping off at a staggering rate, so many people are fed up with the way vBulletin is going and I am not surprised. vB5 is just a mess, whether that will ever improve is another matter, and now vBulletin 4.x is just becoming compromised far to often for people to recommend it.

Products are supposed to improve over time, not become worse. :o

"far too often" is still just the 1 major compromise uncovered earlier this year. There was no new exploit causing this latest round of bad PR- not with the vBulletin software anyway. Unfortunately people see "hacked" and "vBulletin" in the same sentence and it is easy to come to the same conclusion.