Hum, you also have to consider that all the staff here is volunteer but two... (stop whinning about the count, we know who they are) ... volunteer VOLUNTEERED to the job, they are not forced here, BUT also are not obliged to be there forever... if they feel they can't do more, they can quit, they can simply leave their situation to someone else.

the point with all these situations is that some staff always complaint that they can't do all the job, they can't focus on the code all the time, blah blah... so why be on the staff if you can't do a thing?! that is pathetic to see how it's going when the staff start complaining that they are exhausted, have no time, etc... if you have no time, just let the ones with time do it...

in the last weeks, i saw more whinning from the staff having no time than members complaining about tasks that are undone... why?!... in real business, we would call it "depression"... burn-out.

i rarely see the staff announce that "we've done it, we're doing great things"... it's always "we have no time, we can't do it, you ask too much..."

Wrong and you know it. This site is owned by Jelsoft and only licensed vbulletin owners can download the resources here. Just what exactly are you trying to say with that comment?

The only ones that can actually 'do stuff' on here (code wise) is administrators.

i suppose Paul means we could find another place where we would pay some pros to release the same kind of hacks, and we would have a better service so we could whine if we are not happy, because we pay for.

the problem is that we paid our license to have access to this site, we all did... this is not a privilege though, we have to behave... but suggesting things to change is permitted when Paul take over a thread, it's whinning...

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I'm not talking about code, always code... it's about the whole thing, and you know it... i'm not telling that "YOU" are exhausted, or complaining about members requests... but "SOME" are, and maybe it's not their place...

it's not your place when you're among administrators and coders and you see all of them as "possible problems"... most of the guys who really participate on this site as good coders, good admins, people with a brain... but most of the time, when there are debates, these people are considered as kids and whinners... this is not good for the business, even if there is not real business here...

Shouldn't that force even more priority on the coding capabilities of the administrators here?

You hit the nail on the head with this. If this site and it's resources were a major reason for me spending my money on vbulletin (and Jelsoft advertises this as a benefit of spending your money on their product), then it is a privilege I have paid for and I shouldn't have to kiss anybody's a$$ to be allowed to speak my mind and expect some action on things that need to be done. I appreciate the fact that the staff here volunteer their time and efforts...I really do. But on the flip side of the coin, if it weren't for paying customer's such as myself, there would be no need for them to be here volunteering. Not only do I pay for the privilege of being here, I contribute my goods as well. This benefits users like myself but also Jelsoft in a big way...all the more reason to expect this place to respond to the needs of the customers. Like I said earlier, Jelsoft needs to get off their sorry butts and run this place like the business it is or incorporate it into the corporate website. It's not the staff's fault they don't and I don't mean to imply that it is...but that doesn't change the fact that it still needs to happen.

Adding a point here: the admins are telling that we complaint too much, we can do it elsewhere if we're not happy... the only problem with that statement is that Jelsoft refuse to endorse anyother website where we could advertise vBulletin... vb.org is the only official place, and we're more like outlaws when we try to do it elsewhere...

vB.org is providing me the only platform available for advertising my stuff, this is even the only place Jelsoft permit to advertise when talking about hacks and products --- go at vb.com and ask for modification tasks, they will tell to come here, nowhere else...

so my example here is good, if we cannot voice our opinions on this site's structure, that means the site do not intend to represent ourselves, then the site is just a face off... so if this is wrong, why all our requests are considered whinning and none of the admin is able to really do the job in the backside of it?!... no time?!... blah blah... if this site is so modified in the background means that someone had the time to do it in the past... if you are obsolete, instead of saving your ass try to save the site by giving up...

You're really missing the point:

1.) Who said you can't voice your opinion on the site's structure? That's exactly what the Site Feedback forum is for.

2.) It's not an issue of not having time, it's an issue of efficiency and time management...waiting for vB 4 before we make any major foundational edits to our code base is the smart, pragmatic thing to do and I severely doubt any reasonable programmer on this site would disagree with that.

Come on Danny...take a look at how many suggestion threads get handled. I would venture to guess that everyone is on the defensive expecting something to go bad in any suggestion thread...I suppose there is equal blame to go around for that but something needs to give ;)


I agree with that...but a lot of the things that could happen never do ;) This place is still running 3.6 for goodness sake....it should be cutting edge, don't you think?

I agree. Time management is not the equivalent of procrastination, although it seems to be the case on this website (sorry if that's too critical for some to handle).

Smacklan also made a good point with the website being 3.6. Being that 3.6 has been out for quite some time, what's the reason for this version on vb.org not being extra slick? You can either keep waiting for a new release, or we can make things happen. Pushing things off to the side is a setup for a bigger problem in the long run, i can't stress this enough.

Lets face it, this site is filled with professional vbulletin developers. Why can't the people who run it act like so? It's a big ball of frustration. And as frustrating as it is for you guys to handle our criticism, it's twice as frustrating for us to have to give it every day.

Would it not be much more easier and pleasurable for us to comfortably and effectively manage our contributions in such an atmosphere that makes this possible rather than have to point out the obvious every day?

Also, if you want to start talking in terms of "who pays" and "not getting paid" and you feel the need to place emphasis on the fact that contributions made here are free, then i believe "The official vbulletin modifications site" is misleading. Especially since the most official modifications (although there are some great mods here for free) are paid. How about "free vb mods" instead? And lets not even talk in terms of the mod themselves, but rather our status as members here. Yes, we did pay.. We paid for a product which requires us having purchased it in order to fully participate on these forums.

I would love to see a member of the jelsoft staff itself come here and see they are genuinely pleased with the direction this website is going in.