Regardless of the outcome of this poll, this discussion is important. And yes, The Geek, you have a voice here just like everyone else does. I'm quite sure we've all heard you loud and clear. ;)

None of this has been time wasted -- the people who actually make policy decisions for this site needed to hear what the members think. Throughout this thread (and others that got closed), they're able to get a very good overall feel for where there is some agreement among members (that we'd like to have commercial hacks somewhere, advanced coders who release elaborate modifications are entitled to require some compensation if they so choose, and so on) ... along with the possible options where there's wide, differing opinions (as in specific changes here to allow commercial advertising/listings).

Agree or disagree, it's very important for people to share their views and explain their reasons -- for or against.

If there's not *overwhelming* support to make the proposed change, then that's how the poll has played itself out.... that's what these polls and discussion threads are for.

A moderators role is to moderate discussion in the community and ensure people post within the sites rules.

I value moderators opinions on the subject, but when they leave the bounds of subjectively moderating a discussion and turn to contorting customers posts to meet their own objectives, then one starts to get pretty frustrated over the concept of discussion. When discussion moderation turns to discussion control then you quickly find your beating your head against the wall.

As to the results of the poll, I guess that too is contorted in any number of ways to suit anyones agenda. A poll is indicitive of the current active participants on the site. There is no way you are going to get all 100,000 people to particpate in a poll and frankly it doesnt matter as there isnt 100,000 that actually use the site. Heck, I would bet money on the fact that many of those people dont use vB anymore and some could even be dead!

The fact remains that out of the current active lot of people that use this site, the majority want a solution - yet some of the staff have their OWN opinions on it and therefore its a fruitless poll and discussion. Which defeats the entire point of discussion.

My only question is where is the official Jelsoft stance on the subject? I can only assume that the staff here are indicitive of Jelsofts perspective.

All in all I think its a big sad shame. There are a lot of great opportunitites that are squashed here:

• The ability for customers to discover additional ways to enhancne their product
• The ability for new customers to be tempted by vBulletins dizzying array FOC add ons and 3rd party commercial goods
• The ability to generate additional revenue
• The ability to generate revenue for cash prizes for HOTM (imagine ?300 going to the winner - what kind of fenzy could that create to the ultimate free add on every month?)

Ho-hum: Change is evil and bad even when a good chunk of customers want it. Some know whats best for us even if we dont. :ermm:

And a coders role is to code and make sure his code is bugfree.

I value coders opinions on the subject but when they leave the bounds of producing bugfree hacks and turn to Staff members to meet their own objectives, the one starts to get pretty frustrated over the concept of coding.

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If you want to state that volunteer staff members here can not voice their own opinion, then you also please stay with coding and keep your opinion for yourself. Now that would set a good example.


PS I hope you can see the humor of the reply, although i think the message under it should show you that you are walking in a wrong direction. Looks more and more like you are on a personal crusade against some of our staff members.

The majority of members here are not coders.

Full Fricken Stop.

And I will say this: I have seen a moderator here appear to have a personal crusade against TheGeek. IMHO, TheGeek has handled himself well here.

IMO, there is no place here for a paid section. I am one that makes hacks and styles for commercial use and doing that here would harm business for me and others. So I have to heavily disagree and the moderators who disagree with this, I stand with them. In another opinion, this thread should be stopped so those that have discussed this issue can sit back and think about this without posts. IMO, this thread has been taken far enough as votes have been made and people have spoke their opinions, now a final decision needs to be made so attention can be placed back on the FREE forums here.

Cheers
Steve

until the hacks here come with complete instructions instead of if you are to stupid not to uinderstand how to install my hack with no instructions and no hlp then you are to stupid for me to offer the simplest help

untilthen then I will never pay for a hack, I have seen ppls sigs say that, sorry but knowledge trickles down, ie the person in the know tells the person who does not, that is how it works, if you are to stupid tounderstand that then its your on fault and you lack any comuncation skills

example

sorry you have no logic, if you are good at php then you have the skills to teach some one who does not, but i think you have it the wrong way around, if the persons skill who is installing your hack knows more then you, then you cant help them, but you seem to be very ignorant

I do agree with you, people who cannot offer support for their hacks because the user is "stupid" are people who are noobs at coding themselves. Because that just means that they do not completely understand how their hacks work themselves. What does it have to do with this discussion though?

just my thoughts on paying, I wouldnt pay for a hack from a coder with that kind of atitude, and tere seems to be a lot like it, but a few who are not

Well, if I would have known that the majority of the staff here would not even entertain the option I would not have bothered to waste my time voting.

Why is the staff allowing this poll and discussion continue if it's nothing more than a pipe dream? I personally feel like the staff here is holding out a candybar in hand to a kid only to pull it back each time he reaches for it just so you can get a good laugh.

I run VB for a living and understand that not all options that the users want can or should happen. But if something is NOT going to happen on our community website at least we let the users know right away instead of stringing them along like a lost puppy.

Edit:: I screwed up this message. Disregard.