Hi,
I couldn't resist putting my 2c into this thread after reading some of the comments.

A $500 and over skin is really not that much when you think the amount of work you have to put into it to create a original skin.

For starter NOT EVERY PSD are the same, not every xhtml are based on the same layout, come on how can you say that?

Many hrs goes into designing, coding and talking/emailing the client back and forward to make sure that he is pleased with what he is paying you for.

Just to show you a couple of examples:

theMouthPiece.com

Many and many hrs where put into that skin from all the custom coding to the actual design and layout, not to mention the postbit.

Not custom work but a template:

vBStyles.com - Aria Skin

I don't think it's just a matter of changing the same images around as you think :rolleyes:


And if you can make more Money working at Mc Donald that by working as a web developer, perhaps you should start thinking why your work is not selling.....if you know what i mean.




Back on thread topic , there is no best designer, there are so many talented people out there that are not getting recognition or simply are not interested in sharing they're work and many great site that are simply not doing any custom work for some reason or another one.

Make sure to check up the person you are going to get to do a skin for you, reference and previous work before you even contact them for a job.

Make sure to sign a written contract before you pay any money so that you can protect your investment and time...better be careful than sorry.

Take care

Mone'

mone's the man :p

I agree with you to a certain degree Mone'

But what you have to remember is a skin is only worth the same as what other talented designers are selling there's for with the same quality and standard of work.

For example if your selling a car, you check the autotrader first to see what others are selling the same car for with same condition and millage. In other words prices are dictated by the overall going rate. Seeing as you can buy top class skins for £25, I have to agree that $500 (£400) is rather expensive just for a skin when you concider the going average rate for the best skins out there is around £75 pounds. So my question would be.

If I see a skin for £75 that looks just as good as one for £400. What makes that skin worth £325 extra. Because skins that cost £75 still can offer a back-up service just the same as a £400 skin.

When you pay for a custom skin you not only pay for the skin itself but for the ownership of the skin itself. Yes you can find "top class" skins for ?25 but when you purchase a skin like that from vBStyles or ExtremePixels you only get the rights to use it as does anyone else who wants to use that skin. The main selling point of a custom skin is that it's truely custom as you own the full rights to use and distribute it.

Good point, but the question still stands. Why pay £400 to own the rights to a skin when you can pay £70-100 for the same standard of work and also own the rights for a fraction of the price.

The main point I was trying to get across is a skin is only worth what the going rate is. Just the same as anything else you sell (were not paying for a brand name here). Like you would with jeans or shoes etc. And $500 is most certanly not the average going rate going of the internet as a whole.

That's all I'm trying to say. Yea, I supose big companies will pay that kind of money. But if you trying to target the average internet user like myself to buy them. You need to match the going rates of other top class skinners. Otherwise your just going to lose buisness to them.

That's why people that don't care about who else is using it use vBStyles and ExtremePixles and those who want something unique and one of a kind come to people like myself and many of the other designers here. For a one off unique skin though $500 is not much at all - I've spoken with clients of mine who had contacted larger designers and we're being faced with $1000-$2500 pricetags on a one off design.

This is a very interesting thread! Lots of good thoughts and advice being posted. Mone' gives some very good advice. There are more people making great skins than I think most know about. vBStyles and Extremepixels have really nice "off the rack" styles for what they charge for them as does Transverse and Cinvin and vBCore. I think most people don't have the extreme dollars to invest in something really unique but would like to have that. I think we all agree that the vB platform is the best forum product out there, but what I would really like to see is something totally radical..."thinking out of the box" type application of a style...I'm not sure I know how to describe it better, but even the best custom styles I've seen still look like vB (not that thats bad, but does anyone else know what I mean?). I suppose unless things were completely redesigned as far as vB goes thats not possible...anyway...sorry to ramble :p

Well, see one thing with me, is it all depends on who makes the skin/and the quality of it. Now if I see a totally custom skin, with everything custom, buttons, post buttons, headers, navbar buttons...the whole KABLAM..then ofcourse the author deserves more..BUT..and I do say BUT..alot of the skin makers I have seen, just take the same psd image and multiply it at different widths...or just take the same button they already have and make them a different color..or something of that sort. And tell me, all the coding that is in the skins with the XML file, ect. Correct me if I am wrong cause I very well could be, because I know exactly 0% about making a skin other than what I have heard/seen..but do most coders not just take another XML file already made, like say the vBulletin XML skin file, or something of that sort..and just use it as a standard for theres? They just switch around the variables so instead of being v3_header or something like that it is skinname_header, ect..am I right? I could be wrong but I dont believe I am, but I totally agree with you smacklan, it all depends on the coder/designer that makes it..if they make everything XHTML transitional..there is a little plus to em also..but some dont..and they still charge the OUTRAGEOUS price they do.

~Curt

People really shouldn't use XHTML compliancy as an excuse to raise the price, once you learn the few (yes few) differences between HTML and XHTML, it is jsut as easy, and takes no more time (assuming you know what your doing, and if you don't, you shouldn't be doing this!)

I find it rude to argue about someones price, if they feel that is what it's worth and you disagree, just look elsewhere. Even if they are totally wrong, let them find out themself, they won't get any customers. If they do, they must be doing something right, and you shouldn't be criticizing them. Although I'm not a designer, I would say it would really hurt for someone to say my work isn't worth what I am asking.

Anyway, give the designers some slack, but don't let them rip you off.

A great alternative is contests for forum skins on your board! It's not that hard to convert a PSD to a template, and IMO it has worked out great at my board (3-4 times).

To be honest, I coded in XHTML before I even knew what it was. Just cause I liked having clean looking code. :speechless:

Thats why, I havent said any names as in talking-bad about anyone, I love all custom skins :p..especially for someone who doesnt have one. I am just expressing my personal opinion, like I have the right to do :p.



~Curt

I also paid 1800.00 up front for a custom design through vbcore which was a 60% down payment for a custom design. I stated I wanted the best design w/ flash possible. I have had a hard time with communication with him. It has now been almost 5 months and the rough draft has been completed for the most part but nothing further is being done. There is always an excuse why he hasn't been able to do anything else. If i ask for certain changes especially after paying that amount of cash he refuses to make any further changes. I have asked him to code the design what he has so far a month ago and I have still yet to see any work or design being coded.

I felt good when I spoke with him in the beginning about the design work, especially b/c he had a good record with all the work he has done, but this has been a horrible experience for me. Especially after already having a bad experience with another designer dameon with insidethepixel.com

I really hope he can correct himself and these issues with his customers. I think he would have good potential if he would learn to do things in a timely manner and respond to emails more than once a week or two weeks.

Sorry for anyone else that has had a bad experience with him, I understand what u are going through.

I know exactly what you are going through. I had the same bad expericene probability with Dameon White who owned/ran insidethepixel.com. But yeah everything you had said almost word for word the same experience. Kolby is the guy who owns vbcore and yes he has the potential if he would do things in a timely manner. I doubt anything is going to change.

And by the way if you decide to get a refund he won't give it to you. I asked for one and this is what I told from him. When you submit a request a quote for a design and pay any money that you are agreeing to the Terms Of Services on his site which states.

"Once the client has sent any money, there will be no refunds at all. If the customer fails to communicate with vBCore after 2 weeks the contract is considered VOID, vBCore will go out of our way to try and get in touch with you, if you fail to respond the contract is considered VOID and there will be no refunds. All clients, have the right to request a deadline. However, we will give you an approximate or estimated time before completion. If for any reason, the time has passed or can not be met, you will be notified, however there will be no refunds, or money back. We do not offer any guarantees on completions or deadlines. "

So basically two things are going to happen. One you get the design but alot of time has gone by or two you won't get a design and no refund because you agreed to his TOS and/or posted a message stating how unhappy you are. This is what happend to me so...

So I think the more and more people come out and tell everybody else what your experience the better chance we help other people from losing money.


vBCore Warning site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

Bloody Nora...some of the prices you fellas pay...

Here have a design i completed last night
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=97196

Price : FREE

Very nice mate, you should sell them for cheap ?5 or ?10 for quick cash. There well worth it.

Sam, you don't learn, yet everyday I get emails from you saying that you love the skin and you cant wait for it to be completed, and that you are very happy with everything that is going on, but you continue to post here talking trash. Very interesting.

Brandon (TexasATV) I have explained to you the current situation and you replied to the email saying "Ok no problem, be safe and I would like to hear from you soon" I emailed you and I have had not heard from you until today VIA this post. Your skin design is complete, and is now in the coding phase, which is about 95% done being coded. Again, you failed to understand that you wanted this for vB3.5 and that I wasnt going to start to code it until Gold was released (It was released a couple of days ago) and your skin is already almost done.

For those of you interested in seeing the skin, it can be viewed here http://vbcore.com/images/txatv3-5-5.jpg. That is the static preview without flash and what not.

-vBCore

I can't speak to others experiences, only my own with vBCore. I have done alot of business with him and have had nothing but great communication and results! I'm a very happy customer. Just my personal perspective.

Well he a good point also, for the sake of the customer it was better that he gave it him for vB GOLD and not an RC version (just incase). Ah, these these young ones need to be more patient. :banana:

That is a lie I haven't sent you emails....I can't remember the last time I even did. Second off I am not happy with the whole process I have been pissed off about everything not the design but the whole process of treating me like a second class citizen. Do like the skin but since it isn't complete again I don't like the process of how I am being treated.

First sorry for being blunt but you don't dog in this race about telling me to be patience. Because when 6 months roll by and nothing seems to be progressing after you pay some big bucks. So please come to talk to me only after you have walked in my shoes. That is just my opinion nor I wanting to start a fight here just a disagreement in opinions. But sometime you have to bring it to the public to get something resolve or get people opinion on where to go from here.


vBCore Warning site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

dude your idiot his styles are nice i dont know about some crazy ass prices for them but there definetly good quality

Thanks!...but I'm not sure what you mean about the price?

Mmmmm, that is a long time to be patient. I didn't realise you have been waiting that long. :rolleyes:

And thanks for the sarcasm...with the rolls eyes :down: .


vBCore Warning site dedicated to exposing Kolby B. owner of vBCore.

I'm currently getting a skin done by vbcore. So far I've been extremely impressed with his skills. I think he's just taken on more projects than he can do within good time.

<a href="http://xtrato.com/main/forums/" target="_blank">http://xtrato.com/main/forums/</a> My Site :speechless:

You have VERY nice skins, and I would even be interested in buying one..but not for 100-150 bucks for one that can be resold 0_o.

~Curt

Yeah well those are for Php Nuke ... which come with so many addons, and images...

You have main design : Forum design : table Designs : Icons : Mp3 Player : Custom Flash Shoutbox : Flash Navigation menu : Splash Pages : Extreme Detail ...

Most of which are controlable trough administration...

And so much more..

I can do 3-4 vB skins in the time it takes me to create a Full Packed Php-Nuke Design.

So basically.... You honestly get for what you pay for ...

But you will see my new work In www.vbdesigners.com

not just designs ... Xtrato Designs ;)

++++ paying more than $200 for a skin.....*slams door*

*walks back in* ESPECIALLY if it's resold....*slams door again*

Sorry Sam, I was just kidding before with the rolling eyes, I do think you've waited long enough. And I've also read too many other threads now since were this guy is charging the earth, taking people for a much as he possibly can then ripping them off.

isit just me or do most places that sell skins buy the designs from a designer, code them then resell them? dont see many that actualy do ther own designs?

i know one persons designs that crop up on nearly every vbstyles site i visit..

anyway ill add ma site link to the list of sites that sell vb styles

http://www.2evolve.org

No your not on your own, I've also seen and even read a thread elsewhere were I know a person bought 3 skins from a designer (one called Plastic) and then setup a skin site selling them after he purchased the full rights from the creator of them. I've also seen some vbskin sites selling the odd same skin on multiple sites all acting as though it theres. :squareeyed:

So I would guess the same person either owns multiple skin sites under different names acting as though there individual sites, or maybe some skins are being sold on comission bases.

Nice work!...good luck with your site :)

I think $750 per skin in an ok price, I'd pay that much $$ to have my forum unique from the rest.

.... Dear Lord...
it took me more than a week and i haven't done my new skin yet...

arggggg

i sell mine for $350 max price.. so far tho ive sold all them for about $300 and under

dont realy have a fixed price.. as some styles take less time and work than others to get done so by it taken up less of ur time and being simpler todo its only rite to charge less for it.

$700 is abit steep for a vbulletin style..

Indeed!
Even for an exclusive one, made by specific request that's way overpriced IMHO.
However, noone is forced to buy a style for that ammount ;)

I just finished an exclusive style for someone who is pretty happy with it.
Went for under $300.

I enjoy making vB styles and I think my styles are not bad - even though I do have to raise my GFX skills some more....
Design, all GFX and the template "coding" of course is all done by me and myself. No third party involved.
I'm also thinking about walking more into the "making vB styles" thing, but there are soooooo many sites already selling styles....


My 2ct for this :)

There are a lot of sites constantly setting up with the intentions of making money from vB Styles. How many of them are actually successfull overall in selling there skins on a regular bases I'd be interested to know (apart from the obvious well known skin sites that produce top quality styles thats been around for ages). As it quite obvious there selling them OK.

But I agree, even I thought about jumping on the band wagon so to speak at one point after reading people saying they will pay $300 and $600 for a skin LOL. Hell why not, I'm all for making money which every way it comes!

But I don't really have the time to sit there all day creating skins and then having to provide a backup service well, which they would expect at $300 a pop. And skins do usually mess up sometimes when a new vB version is released. Plus you get FREE skins released here all the time, so your work I would image would have to be of a very high quality to temp people to buy them, when they can come here and get free ones.

Well I think the "problem" with free styles or the re-selling ones for $29 and such is that you'll find them on many boards.
Some folks want exclusive ones, that you'll never find anywhere else. And they are supposed to be good quallity as well.

So there's a market there.... but all those style sites have to split up that market....

<a href="http://www.vbcore.com" target="_blank">http://www.vbcore.com</a> They make some decent designs.

damn, i no some one that charge 70usd n i thought that took the piss.. lol

correction he "buys" decent skins and then resells them.. i speak to the person whos sold alot of his work to that site.


yeah i tryed that... started to sell styles for ?10 a pop... but relised it wasnt picking up and had more pms,emails asking for custom work instead.. so now i just do custom styles and thers not a day goes by that someone doesnt email/pm me asking for info on it or wanting a quote..

so am guesing more peeps want custom styles only they will have than a style thats resold.