Ah.. It was you who said in, rather than Erwin...

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....4&postcount=11

That's funny.. you are actually repeating what I say, while trying to disprove anything I say at the same time.

Are labels really important to you? Concerning my "html manual script", as you call it, the license key is actually just your personal password which helps you to make sure nobody can access your script except for you. If you look at the PHP code, there are no callbacks or whatsoever... Leave alone the fact that you are doubting my PHP security skills without having even reading any of my codes... Which, therefore, has no reason behind it, unless you just enjoy criticizing others... However, this is in an offtopic, so if you'll excuse me..

I thought he was referring to PAID hacks..Why are we still discussing this and why was it even brought up? To ask a business to endorse your money making is not right. You want to make paid hacks fine, do it on other terms...

~Curt

What are you talking about?

It may be funny to you, I don't know you that well. You are essentially biting the hand that feeds you, by using people's free tools, than accusing them that they don't value their time. It's too low, IMHO.

Why should I pay to look at your code just to check it? For example, Marco today spotted an SQL injection flaw in hack that was uploaded merely an hour or so before, and instantly called the author on it. Making him pay to check for these things is ridiculous.

I do not know you skills, and can neither endorse them or disparage them. But please show some respect to the work of others that you use. If you can't thank them, at least don't insult them.

Many of us here who do release free work get substantial contracts, corporate and otherwise, to do similar work (I got an offer from an Italian corporation to customize my UCCASS survey hack). I wish you the best of luck in making money, and you do not need to insult others in order to make it.

Precisely! You don't know me that well, but you assume that every possible bad aspect of coding applies to me too.

vBulletin is not a free tool. And I am not accusing "people" that they do not value their time. I am accusing specifically those who spend year(s) on writing something and then ask nothing in return.

I only said that if any one person would look at it, they would see that there is no callback in it. Besides, that one person could cut the callback out, as was mentioned before. I did not that you should or have to do anything.

If you check out my posts, you will find out that I thank people for every hack that I install... Or at least, I say some words of appreciation, like "this is a very nice hack".

Right now I am not trying to make my money. I started the thread saying that there should be some rule that woud allow posting paid hacks. Just to discuss it.. That got carried away though...

Whom did I insult?

Actually, it could not be mine because it goes against everything else I said in this thread... If it is mine, please quote the exact post where I said it. Thanks.

maybe a site that only deals only with paid scripts for vBulletin?...

and custom code requests, paid stuff

mysql finetuning, mod installation, troubleshooting, maintenance

- Paid vBulletin Modifications Advertisement
- Service Requests Advertisement
-- Installation / Custom Modification Installation
-- MySQL Finetuning
-- Troubleshooting
-- Custom Code
- Testimonials

for free, of course

No, just going by what you have posted in this thread so far, nothing personal.

If you are using vBulletin, then you are using a lot of the free hacks posted in this forum, by "some people do not value their time", such as hacks released by Kier, Overgrow, Chen and many others mentioned in vB's credit file. Plus, you probably are using Apache, PHP and MySQL, which value their time more than you could imagine.

Here's what you said:

As well as free hacks, you get a lot of free fights here as well. Entertainment while you code - it's great. :)

It's always been my position that if this is to be the ultimate vbulletin resource that it needs to advertise the paid hacks - for a fee - as well. Why wouldn't it? It's a win-win situation for Jelsoft, who makes money on the ads and who can control which paid mods are advertised here.

Amy

Though Im not overly bothered about charging for advertising, I still have to disagree about it in concept.
A- The cost of the advertising simply gets passed onto the customer
B- Most wont bother with the average cost of the scripts being very low to begin with. Charging to advertise a service that enhances Jelsofts product means that the average coder wanting to have the opportunity to recoup some expenditure out of their work would have to turn it into a business.

I think what everyone is against is the concept of people making a business strictly out of making projects for vB and getting advertising for free. I seriously doubt that anyone could really do something like this as:
A- The bulk of all scripts are FOC
B- The bulk of scripts that are not FOC cost very little. Couple in the time to devlop and support, I cant see anyone even making a good full time job from doing vB modifications. If the possability exists - then more power to them.

I personally feel that it would be a big plus to jelsoft to offer a directory of modifications along with their costs and a link to the site for more information (AND maybe a member rating). Charging for the right to be in the directory would undermine the purpose behind it.

Let's play the devil's advocate (again ;)

A lot of coders here release most of their work for free here at vb.org because they feel that is the right thing to do. This category will probably be releasing most of their work for free whatever we do.

Another big part of the coders make work that could (not saying the above category of coders could not) charge a small amount for most of their work, but simply don't feel like going through the trouble of advertising and setting up a site to support paid service for the relative small amount of income that could be generated out of this.

I think that if it was easy too advertise their work to the whole community, they might choose to post in the paid hack forum when given the choice of releasing it for free or for a small amount. That would be the beginning of the end of this community in my opinion.


PS In the above i am not talking about the bigger solutions that are offered for payment.

PRO's
====

Quality control, more variety, a larger community as the money hungry hackers flock from far and why trying to sell their products

CON's
====

People release less free hacks as they already have the market and thus only released paid hacks and then the comm just becomes a market place.





Who knows i wouldn't mind either way :)

I would have to agree... However, that would not happen if the community staff members would decide what to allow for paid forum and what not to allow. Only the best modification, imo, should be paid.

I am sorry but then we would have to monitor and analyze all posted hacks, and decide if they are one of 'the best modification'. We would be like the Jury on Idols.

I am sorry but that would only result in decissions being not accepted and long discussions. There is no way (that i can think of) we could pull that off. And what i might think of as a good hack that should be payed, might be considered worthless by someone else.

I don't recommend a 'paid addon' forum.
I think this will be confusing to some members.

A simple "PRO" link directory where members can submit their sites and rate others (comment required) is all that is needed.

This way .. a list of available vb resources can be found if member is seeking specific services/applications.

vb.org can charge for better placement within directory and a title tag; otherwise, submission is free.

That's probably the best way. And making a separate site is no problem.

Dear Abby,

Cant for the life of me see why, it just a little too doomsayeresque for me but then again we just disagree a bit.

IMO the best way is to grab something like vba?s links directory and allow submissions and ratings. It isnt going to result in everyone sudenly wanting to pay for everything, it will just result in a lot more visibility for those that cant give theri time away for free.

Lets face it, Jelsoft should support these guys as much as us martyrs that do it FOC.

If I seem biased its only because I have pondered (especially as of late) the pros and cons of being a macker moving to paid only versions of hacks (some others have prodded me to contemplate this). Not because I could make money at it (it would be impossible to make even a fraction of my time investement back), but because it would give me the opportunity to code more projects that I would like to sink my teeth into.
Its hard enough to keep my head above water now as I spend most of my free time devoted to upgrading my work for 3.5 and supporting the people who currently have my work installed.
There are at least 4 more major macks I have in early stages (GeekMart and GeekBay have been in the pipeline for months now) but it is impossible to squeeze out any more time to devlop these concepts.

I dont code vb mods for profit, I code them because:
1- I need the mods for my site
2- I like to code
3- I get a buzz from others enjoying my work

If I go the paid route, I would have only serious installers paying me a fraction of what it cost for me to actually make the mods. I have never done that because that route violates one of the key reasons why I code: because others may nJoy my work. Saying that, 75% less installs means a lot less support which means I can get onto some of the other projects I have brewing.

so... Charge $5-$30 per mod and release more mods or drown in support for current releases and never have time to make new, better and innovate work?

its a real catch 22.

Im going back to the pool to contemplate the string theory and its relation to cold beer.

There is one more tiny problem no one mentioned... :rolleyes:

If a programmer develops a set of code that is for a fee, and does well - if the same functionality is included in a following vB version, what stops the programmer from suing Jel for theft?

The vBorg community is so incestuous with code, you can hardly tell which code is a sister, mother, daughter, or neighbor's wife... :devious:

Take a look at the last five years suits against Microsoft. Majority of them were because an ancillary program features appeared in a follow-up version of MS product. Some with and some without merit.

Even just the threat of such suit could cripple a small business. :ermm: Yes, I do have first hand experience - that is why I no longer code.

I would LOVE to see a comprehensive resource of developers of code, styles templates, etc... I am just not sure how it would be implemented... :tired:

I think it's from past experience :)

I'm not gainst a directory listing commercial products. My preference is for such a list to be done on vbulletin.com, not .org The .com has more clout as the official site, and can demand some conditions to be met, prior to listing them to prevent any abuses.

But getting vb.org into this does open up a few cans of worms.

1. Licensing issues. First there's the vBulletin license. We alrady see a lot of posts to have member's enter their license information, and the occasional glitches when some one no longer shows up to the mods as a licensed user. Now you'll have multiple licensing issues and they can get entangled with each other, as to who's licensed to what.

Are commercial hack authors privy as to who is a licensed vB holder? Does vB care that only liensed vB member's can get support for commercial hacks done by 3rd party on vb.org? Would they need to share such info? Would they provide or request such info? Do members care to let some personal info be shared by both parties...

2. Disputes. We already see a few heated disputes between service providers and members. Someone paid for the work and didn't get it. Someone did the work and didn't get paid, each one flaming the other and vb.org mods have no way to tell who's right and who's wrong. Now add in to the mixture paid hacks, and disputes as to if a member paid for the hack, or pirated the hack, or paid for the hack and the author is MIA and neither delivered the product, nor supports it. Or a glitch in whatever licensing mechanism that author uses, and further disputes about that.

Each of these can get really personal, as it will involve accusations of piracy, or taking other people's money, and no one knows who's telling the truth, of it's it's a bug in licensing keys. Then you'll get members saying they know that this member would never accuse someone unless it's true, and other will say the same for the author and becomes too peronal.

Multiply this by the number of paid hacks, as more and more get added here.

Of coure this would not happen with every paid hack, but it is bound to happen once it becomes more frequent.

It could get ugly really fast.

3. The "Lite" model: In the forum rules it already lists this as an option:
This way at least you don't have any of the above problems, no dispute about money or licenses, and a good way to show your goods. If one doesn't want to do that, they can just do what other commercial developers do, start their own business like PhotoPost, vB Advance Gallery, etc.

Gang, many of you run ad banners on your site. Do your members hold you responsible for the service offered by your advertisers? At best, they may just ask you to zap an ad banner for a scummy advertiser. I don't see the difference here.

Amy

Whilst I have no strong feelings either way regarding where advertising of this nature should go, I get annoyed very quickly browing vb.org when scrolling an often long support thread means going past 101 links to people's sites where they do their coding.

I know it's relevent to vb.org and such, but the sigs annoy me as much as any outwar or free ipod link, I wish there were a forum to place them all in.