i like the new Plugin features - rather than updating hacks over and over and over and... yeah - great job on that :D

Yes but it means that all hacks will need to be recoded and possibly the loss of a few hacks like arcade ect.

If they a really popular, odd's are someone will port or code their own version and release it. It might not come from the same author, but it'll probbly exist in some form. :)

They said that when vB2 went to vB3 but look at us now. :)

i cant wait till it comes out, my 1 year of free updates is still up :)

exactly... :)

The more important problem is the reduced efficiency of code due to these "Plugin Spots".

Actually, the code efficiency will be greater as data is being managed in a different way so that less redundancy and repetition is required. At least, this is from what I have heard.

If they are using code pools of callbacks and generic functions to handle "places to put code", then no; efficiency is greatly lost and the performance of the forum will be reduced. This is not to say vb 3.5 by default will not run faster than previous, this is to say much if any added benefit of 3.5 over 3.0 is going to be lost due to plugin code.

No one really knows, while it may please the non-technical of the forum owners out there, people like me who are speed demons by nature, may see themselves having to make much use of the backspace key in 3.5

Ahh, I can just see it -

6 months will pass, and 3.5 will become a reality for everyone. Then it will sink in after everyone starts converting over. NO HACKS.

So the requests will start start flying in, and VB.org will see even more activity. :speechless:

But Wait !!!!!! The worst part of this whole change over will be the wait. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Nailgeek said it best -

I am in middle of some other hacks and the impending release of vb3.5 means that most of my development is on hold awaiting its release.

I don't give the test myself but take a look:

http://www.webmasterstop.com/56.html

they said thay OOP in PHP will slower the execution time no matter how, but OOP is easier to maintain and inherit of course.

This "test" is bollox, the huge overhead comes from instantiating 100.000 test-objects, which does not make sense at all, as only 1 instance is needed.
A "fair" comparison would be 1 object and calling method one() 100.000 times.

That is a moot point as he is not doing the arcade anymore and has locked his site down.

No the point is not moot as the hack is currently available and running on many 3.0.x sites.


I honestly don?t think you will see many make the switch over. There just isn?t enough pros with this new version to make people switch to something thats utilizing a new coding system thats going to make converting old hacks a logistical nightmare.

Only those that are upgrade addicts are going to make the crossover.


Erwin you make a valid point however the data structure and coding from 2 to 3 did not change that much. This means that old hacks can simply be converted over by updating the php to call the new functions. The new 3.5 is going to involve not only updating the php code but a total restructuring of the code and variables involved.


This is all for what? So Jim Bob gets instant post updates and ect without refreshing. So Jim Bob can sit back and hit install instead of having to hit copy and paste where applicable.

I have always believed that anything worth having is worth working for. So what if Jim bob has to get his hands dirty by having to actually edit a few files..


Why not make it worthwhile vbulletin and treat these coders with some respect by implementing some of the code revisions for bugs found by coders here and giving us some new features to provide our end users with.

I have enough bandwidth that my members refresh rate is far back in my priority list.

People say that about every software upgrade.

Personally, I think its foolish to make such blanket statements when we don't even have a beta out yet to look at.

We do not need the code to understand the logic or concept of the coding that has been done.

A blanketed statement or hypothesis is warranted based on factual data thats been presented. For me to get anymore specific would be unfair and unjust to the Vbulletin developers.


I am not belittling their ability , but their corporate culture.

As consumer's our opinions should be held in high regard.

Agreed.

I disagree. You are applying your personal bias about value of the published changes in 3.5.0, and making the assumption that a large % of other forum operators will share your opinion.

Having reviewed the list of enhancements in 3.5.0, I personally see great value in making the switch - and the biggest selling point for me is the plugin system being implemented. I am awaiting the beta with much anticipation. Anything which makes modifying the behavior or vBulletin easier in the long term is welcome to me - and I anticipate that the hook system will ultimately mean adding custom content (hacks) built using the hooks will mean minor updates don't mean hours of remodifying php files by hand to re-enable the hacks I've got in play.

Do not make the mistake of assuming that the most vocal group is the majority. Those who dislike complain. Those who support tend to remain silent. Unless you've done a statistically valid survey to determine what percentage of operators will at least consider the upgrade, you can not safely extrapolate any numbers based simply on the commentary of a few posts, let alone your own bias.

I beleive perspective would be more appropiate then bias. You should research the word hypothesis as its referencing an educated guess which is all I can make at this point.
Yes the plugin system will be great however only if there are hacks to utilize it. Our ability to apply hacks has been made easier but at what cost. The question is if the cost is too great?

Again I used the word hypothesis and you cannot claim it to be wrong unless you yourself have completed your above-mentioned survey. Remember these words:

Those who complain are generally those who care to see improvement. Those who
do not speak up are either satisfied or feel no personal obligation to better the community as they will like take their loyalty to another vendor.

Well, if its *easier* to make modifications, then one could at least hope that the hacks for 3.5.0 would begin pouring out at a much faster pace, I would think.
I didn't say your hypothesis was wrong. I am saying that it *isn't* warranted to make any claim in the positive OR negative until there is some kind of survey.

I then followed up by showing what my own personal bias leans towards. I did not extend my bias to the majority with speculation about who would and would not switch. All my statement about my own position shows is that at least one person will be switching.

I am sure that I am no "upgrade addict" (as upgrading a board which uses a totally custom style and has almost every file modified is a nightmare), but I am sure that we are going to make the switch as soon as possible.

mySQL Fulltext Search, "real" mark-read, mySQLi, AJAX and having datastore locally are pretty important for those running larger boards.

And once more and more hacks get converted/releases for the plugin-system, I bet it will make life a lot easier.

I believe most upgrade happy people probably will upgrade. What will matter is if the coders will. Object oriented programming is easier to code on a large-scale project but in the realm of an individual coder its more time consuming and adds complexity to a previously simplistic environment.

My opinion as a consumer was warranted the day the release was detailed from vbulletin pertaining to a product that I may or may not utilize.

In fact, people said that when vB2 became vB3. But most sites upgraded.

Nobody said it would be easier to create hacks. It will only be easier to implement and administer hacks that are using the plugin hooks and the Data Manager.

I agree that it won't take any less skill to design robust modifications. But I think it probably *will* be somewhat easier to create the modifications for the hack makers because they'll have clearly defined access points to start from.

Coding against a well doc'd API is always easier to work with than trying to modify source code directly.

Of course, the trade-off is - you're limited to what the API lets you have access to if you stick to only the API.

The bottom line is that its changing the code structure and adding more rules to the way it can be inserted to comply with the plug in system.

Right now its coding into whatever however within ethical range defined by the community of vbulletin.

What does that mean? New posts will be shown without refreshing?

check out this flash file that explains the javascript AJAX goodies that are going to be in the next version:

http://files.vbulletin.com/3.5/ajax.html

I seen how they were double clicking on the box to edit the title. I have some java code installed that gives me the ability to click anywhere on the box to open a forum or thread. I guess that will be gone. :(

When making a new post it shows up instantly :)

Hi

Personally i look forward to the new upgrade with the new plugin system, after all remember when vb brought out 2-3 upgrades in 1-2 months period and everyone got upset that they had to upgrade then install mods again and again.

Basic fact is i would prefer it more just to overwrite the vb files instead of having to reinstall all mods again and again.

I guess as the saying goes you can't please everyone.

Any idea on how the styles are going to work?