I am taking it personal because you are trying to change the subject and make this discussion about me and the mods I have submitted - thats not the topic I've started here and nor should you hyjack it to change it.

My position is the lack of a resource for professional mods is a liability for this site. Allowing for a forum where people can post infromation about mods for purchase would be an added "resource" for the site that bills itself as the "Ultimate Resouce".

First of all, I'm not a third-grader that needs a time out. And I was on-topic. You brought up the paid hacks idea and that is what you also are into. This thread is about paid hacks and anyone that offers them or is looking for them. Maybe YOU need to step back and take a time-out.

My apologies, it wasn't personal, I was just using the third-grade remark as an example of an action you might want to consider. Given that you are probably the oldest person on this board, I thought you might see the humor in the remark. Maybe a nurse could explain it to you.

I understand that older people often are resistant to change and that as the younger crowd looks to move beyond its confines it might put off some in a different generation. After all, the transition from punch card to disk was not an easy one.

Again, not a personal attack; just using you as an example of someone "older than dirt".

Personaly I belive anything released here (and at vBt) should be free of charge to jelsoft customer, that covers everything from hacks, template mods, button sets, full blown styles, etc.

These communitys should be a means for everyone to learn from each other, learn how vBulletin works from the top to bottom. End users need a resource that gose beyound general support, how many of you can say the hacking community never helped you de-bug a error with your live board, or showed you a better way of writting some tricky php code. Ask anyone well known for good code in this community, a lot will tell you they owe a lot to the guys that came before them.

I like these type of communitys, they breed creative hacks built on creative code. And I don't want to see a paid hacks section take away from that.

I think no one would have a problem with someone selling hacks outside of this community, it is when you propose using vBulletin.org as a means to sell products you start getting on thin ice.

And I am sure that 98% of the site would remain so - but as the Ultimate Resource, wouldn't giving people the option of looking at for-fee mods be an asset? What does giving them that option do to take away any value from the rest of this site?

You see it as making vb.org a sales site - I see it as providing additional resources.

You see? You are like every other fly-by-night that comes around. You can't handle criticism so you lash out in comical ways. Hopefully, you'll live as long as I have to see the things I've seen from this community. But as long as there are people like you that are out to make a quick buck, then we have to stay on our toes and keep your kind at bay. This is all I'm going to say on this thread because my time is more valuable than to waste it trying to make you understand what this community is all about. You'll never break this community with your paid hack mentality. Not as long as I am here, anyway.

theres a service request forum if anyone wants something can't they just go there ?
that way we don't get sellers we get people who want things instead
that way you know what people want instead of telling people what they want by saying ooh u need x coz x has x features

So it was personal after all.

Well, doesn't appear I have long to wait, then, huh? ;D

All kidding aisde, I'm not suggesting breaking the forum or the spirit - I'm simply discussing what could be a valuable resource that brings professional coders into the mix of your "learning" group.

As a customer willing to pay for quality, I'm disappointed that this forum falls short of its "ultimate" claims.

Because of the value obtained by not doing one-off's or cusotmization for every request.

I'm not gonna deny that you are a customer but because you are indeed the developer of photopost it appears your views are slightly biased

also because you want to sell hacks
i suppose as a seller i'd also want to advertise here
but the requests forum is there so it doesn't become a place of just selling

if you really want to pay for something request it in that forum
theres always someone willing to pick it up for cheap
i would know ;)

Y'all, things are getting out of control in this thread. The topic at hand is whether people should be allowed to start threads about paid hacks. The rules say no, which is what the moderators should enforce.

People who charge for their work are not evil.
People who want this place to stay for free hacks exclusively do have a right to believe that.

Enough with the mud slinging because there's no point in it. Jelsoft will make the final decision on what they want at their site.

Amy

While running the risk of being shot for performing my moderator duties, I will here insert the thread of warnings or bannings should personal attacks continue.

Here is the situation of paid hacks in vb.org:

Some people think that they should be allowed here, some believe otherwise. Even the staff of this site are not in agreement about this issue. I personally believe they are NOT evil and an official vbulletin community should embrace them. It could be vb.org or any other new official site if vb.org is regarded as a free hacking community. But I believe having professional mods in vbulletin world will florish the vbulletin itself since it will offer more possibilities for vb powered sites.

However what I believe is just a personal opinion and irrevelant here. Jelsoft does not like them so their promotion are NOT allowed here since this is a Jelsoft site. They believe people should not use their platform and resources to advertise their paid hacks. This is a stance of the company who ownes vbulletin and this site, so we should all respect their decision.

vb.org administration announced the paid hack policies like this:
* We don't allow them promoted here by its author. Such threads and discussions are deleted.
* We allow their discussions by other members who have no intentions of promoting them, but just discussing them.
* We don't allow paid hacks released in full releases sections.
* We allow "lite" versions of paid hacks released here, provided that they are functional by themselves without forcing people to buy the paid version.

These are the policies that rule at the moment. However they can change in time in either way, if Jelsoft asks us (=vb.org administration) to change them. These rule apply for about a year and we don't get any complaints by Jelsoft so I guess I'm safe to say, for now they agree with these policies.

If you want to discuss this issue, feel free to do it. But please note that such a discussion is NOT likely to change these policies. If this is your intention, you may like to discuss it in vb.com so that Jelsoft can hear your suggestions better.

Very reasonable, if nothing else the discussion of the topic may highlight to the powers that be that the subject is worth reconsidering.

Thank you, that bade man wouldn't leave me alone. :D

if it's honest with everyone i did infact see alot of attacking in this thread, however i also understand that this issue is close to everyones hearts, however whether MPDev released hacks that were related to a paid product other than that of vBulletin are irrelevant, that's getting onto the mentality that you'll only pink diamonds.

in all fairness i read the most valid point in, "would you rather pay $50 an hour or $50 outright due to buying a mod instead of hiring a specialist" that is the problem with service requests, people over-charge and paid mods would reduce that, but at the same time, i really can't see the introduction of paid mods on vb.org not affecting the current releases, vb.org is growing in momentum once more and although we may disagree on some stuff, paid mods/service requests have a role to play in the world of webmastering as lets be honest, running a forum is about being a webmaster, and i'm sorry to piss anyone off but no one releases everything they make.

i would like to have jelsoft set up something so that prices are kept as low as possible, mods cannot turn into products and most importantly to advertise a paid mod you had to a/give a percentage back to jelsoft and b/release X ammount of free mods. but that's my opinion.

to me i love free mods and i love paid ones, i've requested a few paid mods and asked for them to released free, and i've wanted a few kept to myself, i mean look how long i've worked on my confessions script, i'm sure some people think i'm just being selfish but the truth is, i just aint finished it yet despite having a working version, i think villianising paid mods is a bad idea, but without the quality control, price control and so on so forth, promoting it is even worse, theirs very few people who would deserve to have a paid mod released here and the only one that springs to mind is NTLDR and i know i seem like i'm forever mentioning him, but he releases good work and supports it immensely, we seriously need more people here like him and until that's the general attitude before we start trying to introduce new stuff, lets get the existing stuff upto that bench mark.

Actually, this site was setup to provide a modification community for vBulletin. The subject of Paid Mods didn't come up until much later. It was never intended to be a point where people could learn how to code from Jelsoft's perspective. If that is the services previous volunteers wanted to provide that was their initiative. In fact, we would prefer that you learn how to program PHP before trying to modify vBulletin and there are much better resources online for that.

However, being human nature, people want the quick fix. The quicker the better. As such different situations need to be reviewed from time to time and changes made from there. That is the case here. The paid modification issue among others is being reviewed among both Jelsoft paid staff and the volunteers at its sites. While, no decision is immediately forthcoming, we are looking at all options ranging from allowing them, to reselling paid add-ons, to charging distributors and programmers listing fees per month or per add-on.

Thank you, Wayne. I was suprised by that characterization of the site and am glad that my point got through.

If people learned their own code then what use of paid hacks ;)
although my stance hasn't changed
i still think the place would be come very very commercial and free hacks would become a thing of the past
at least for vbulletin

People who don't have the time to write very complex hacks. If you knew PHP, why buy vBulletin? ;)

Even if you know PHP, you may not want to take the time to code it. There is no reason I couldn't code my own import script considering my background with Threads - however, I simply don't have the time or energy to do it.

just outta curiosity, mostly at boofo and msimplay; how do you feel about the fact that chen went and made Hivemail and sells it?

well as i said i don't have no problem with paid hacks i bought a few in the past
i mean look at Hivemail its excellent
and why would i have any opinion or problem with it , its a script just as is vbulletin , and not just small scripts its something actually no one offers to that quality , The Vbulletin of email scripts

But theres a difference in modifications for a script as addons
and totally new scripts Hivemail is a completely different product

My fear is the fact that this place could turn into a place of commerce
paid hacks could take over quickly
this is the one place where they are not allowed and thus the hack makers are not releasing paid hacks

i mean theres loads of places that allow paid hacks
why pick Vbulletin.org
I would say the answer to that is its advertising potential as anyone whose everyone that has modified their forum in someway or other be that
hacker or person that comes to download hacks
knows of this site

I don't think Hivemail (or PhotoPost) could be considered hacks though. They do not exist because of simply because of vBulletin and will run fine if vBulletin isn't installed. Just because something integrates with vBulletin doesn't make it a hack or add-on.

and i agree, just it could be said that 'chen learn't to code via vb.org' and him then using that knowledge to go on and make a product with possible vB integration, i'm wondering whether it's viewed in a different light than the one in which photopost is seen.

thats a good thing right ?
my mate uses Hivemail and i myself use photopost

i dunno that's why i'm asking, i mean based on .org's current form, i don't think paid mods belong here or could work here, but as a customer who has paid for a mod, i'd say that i would like to know that they're supported, going through quality control and are large-huge mods. protecting the customers as it were. i just got the general feeling that it was felt that if you learn't how to code via this community you shouldn't charge for code, and as much as Hivemail is still a product, it's still code so was just wondering.

I personally think paid mods should not be allowed here, and I do paid mods.

Lets face it this place is for support of vbulletin and add ons.

People pay 30 a year to have vbulletin access to upgrades and vbulletin.org , vbulletintemplates.com

To add in more paid functions here would not only cause for more work by mods, but change the aspect of this place drastically.

They allow you to discuss paid add ons, they allow you to promote them in your sig.

Why change a good thing, and this coming from someone who does paid mods.

Well thats like saying because vbulletin uses open source php they shouldn't charge for it

its not so much the fact of charging for it
its more that its on this site
i suppose the view is changing as i always thought of vbulletin.org the one place where i could learn share and all the rest of it

i mean the reason why i say this is because
when i eventually release some of my own hacks here
its going to be because this community gave to me

i feel the same, but i'm just querying the differences, just like the differences in someone releasing a lite product for free of a paid mod really (which i'm quite pro, as i tended to pay for the JS) i was just asking questions really. i intend to release stuff too based on the same thing plus the back links :D, so was just asking really :)

What are "plus the back links"? ;)

when you release large hacks, you get to sig them with "made by sabret00the for ebs:live" that's attractive to me, as before i learn't to code i always wanted the best for my community and that means promoting it, and it's hard to attract forum users as they tend to have somewhere ot post, so doing this in a non agressive fashion is gentlemanly.

Had to slip in one more cheap shot, huh, old man? Maybe you missed the part about knocking off the personal attacks?

Do you have any first hand experience with PhotoPost and its support or are you just throwing more mud? I'm guessing you haven't even bother to read some of the threads here where I took the time to help people with their integration support right here on this site. As a representative of this site your remarks border on liable.

Wasn't the dressing down you got about how you misrepresented this site enough or are you just looking to piss me off and start something you would likely only finish by waving your wand?

Poke me enough and you might get your wish - but I would expect one of the other mods or admins to yank your chain before that happened since I have been more than patient with your constant attacks.

You've done your fair share of attacking in this thread aswell, why don't you bite you bottom lip and give it a break. This is pointless and isent going anywhere, if you have a personal problem with someone take it to private message, there is no reason to bicker like this in the public forums.

I have taken it to PM and I am waiting for a response. Considering the source of attacks, I would think you might direct your response to the individual who is antagonizing the situation. I've been quite patient in the face of these attacks and my responses have been mild in comparison to what I would have liked to have written.

Although I'm not a direct customer of Photopost, I have witnessed a lot of times that they have a very good support. So I can't agree with Boofo's comment about their support.

However as a person who wishes to have a lighter policy on paid hacks, I believe that MPDev you have to be more open to critisizm or discussion of your product even if you don't agree with everything discussed. I don't have any idea why Boofo made such a comment or if this is his experience or impression but why don't you take it as a personal comment just like my personal kudos? There is really no need to accept it as an "attack" and flame the thread more.

I really appreciate everybody's understanding here.

Except that the critism is misdirected - as a vB user, not as a PhotoPost developer, I was looking for a paid mod to convert my extremefitness.com site from Threads to vB. I run about 500-600 people online throughout the day and think a vB3 upgrade would be well received on my site. I asked about this policy in direct connection to my looking for someone who had posted about a paid mod and had their post removed.

I've said this many, many times; but Boofo keeps going back to takes on PhotoPost which has nothing to do with my inquiry. PhotoPost is not a mod - its a standalone application. As such, I wouldn't expect to be able to promote it as a mod. So, from my perspective all this is a nonissue and has nothing to do with my interest in having access to professional mods.

I run a half dozen sites - including photopostdev.com which runs vB3 and viperalley.com which runs a highly modified UBBThreads. Not everything I do is related to PhotoPost (kinda like my signature that I wrote below which still does 2 million impressions a day).

My coming here as a customer shouldn't mean its open season on hyjacking my threads to make it about my involvement in PhotoPost.

This thread is closed. In the future when people can act mature and not attack each other, it may be re-opened. Further discussion about this issue will be handled backstage.