hummm, where can i get a copy ? :)

vBDesk comprises of two people, the designer and the developer. I'm the developer ;), not the designer.

We do have a small portfolio yes, but it's slowly growing and each style is unique. Although you're right with the fact that you can't base the capability on a small portfolio.

I could name about, 10-15 vB designers. :)

Hey thanks Douglas :)

>>Impressive! You coded the article management yourself? Looks very nice judging from the screenshot.

Thank you as well. I don't want to hijack the thread, but it is your thread... I started coding the CMS on Saturday I believe. It is fully vBulletin integrated, using usergroups for 3 levels of backstage access and templates for the display. It features some nice tricks like search engine friendly URLs: http://www.yoursite.com/articles/025...ds-in-the-link (the number is necessary for Google News).

Not sure how it will be released; I might hold it for clients who also want design and integration. I don't see how I'd have the time to support it any other way.

Just want to give some positive praise to alex of vBmechanic - he is terrific! Great designer and coder - he's helped install hacks for me, and come up with how to do some custom hacks we wanted that I didn't think could be done. He's prompt, professional and friendly :)

I code and do work for people who can design but not code, anyone who hands me a design i can probaly code it ^^

i suck design wise however :(

If I where looking to have a full design done vBmechanic would be the guy I would call on, I have not bought anything from him before but ive seen alot of his past work and it is very good.

I'm also a vB designer ;) I have quite a few clients and make better skins each time - I admit my earlier skins weren't very good so my portfolio my not look the best
Alot of them are on:
http://ashrafabed.com/testvb <I'm buying another license just to display my skins on, just waiting until the vB.org contest is over so I can see if I actually have to buy it or if I can win it ;) thats why they're on the testvb for now

don't forget, your test board is not supposed to be accessed by the general public.. a la behind a passworded directory.. it would suck if you were to lose your licnse and then not win..

good luck in the style contest, btw..

yes he did a great job on that,

Mhh..... what...???? :ninja: :ninja:

A few bad apples have hurt the reputations of others. While it hurt the overall reputation of "skinners" it really did nothing but help my business. Word of mouth is the best advertisement you can ever get. It can kill you are make you one of the best...

A lot of people really have no idea how it is to handle 100's of new customers a week or a month. It can easily be an overload. Personally I take care of my current customers before anything else. I turned down 5 custom jobs last week so I could get all of my current skins up to date 3.0.1 That was completed in 2 days. A very long 2 days but my customers appreciated it.

As it stands right now my bread and butter are my skins I have for sale. Custom 1 of a kind skins will be in my market very soon. Right now my focus had been on getting my site and current customers set up and happy. This means quick support, keeping skins updated, and just basically being around to answer questions. Now that everything has fallen into place custom jobs will come. I will finally start taking on some side work. But this has been almost 2 years in the making.

You will see a "lot" of new businesses popping up. The majority will either fail or bail. Or at least this has been the trend so far. The ones that actually care about the customer will succeed if they can stick with it and keep fresh.

And as far as "overcharging"... I still think it is true you get what you pay for :)

That is my 2 cents ;)

I do not think you were given permission to remove the copyright from
http://www.ukmusic.com/forum/links.php
:ermm:

lol

i have nothing to add really, just wanted to laugh, but i don't think no one can argue that folks who skin vB are very very very well paid and imo often too well paid but meh.

LOL yes, we all drive Ferarris and live in the Hollywood Hills.

If you add in all of the hours we spend with the initial contact emails, followup emails, bug fixes, and updates... not to mention the actual skin and button design... it's not really that much money.

LOL, until you made a style youll never really know :P

Styling is what i do but not ANYWHERE as nice as VBmechanics or Panks or any of them :p


BUT i still work my ass off

how can you say people that make skins are well payed?

$40 = about ?24 a good skin can take days to make and code so lets say someone does one fast eg 10 hours work thats only a hourly rate of like ?2.40 and dont forget about all the little edits and fix's and testing that as to get done.

But one thing i do see on alot of skin sites is alot of good designs put one big prob, its to much design and imgs, what ever happened to nice clean designs that dont take your eyes away from the posts and dont eat up your servers cpu and data?

I would like to think i know what im talking about because i have done designs for myself a number of times:

http://community.ultimate-music.net/

http://www.lisascottlee.com/ did this one this morning, forums still got to be redone to that look, the sites also got a vb backend, that being some pages you have to be looged in to view if not it auto take you to a login screen (eg try viewing the wallpapers page) it also has its own sign up forum.

Not just the style production, but you also have to run a business, answer client emails, answer prospective client emails, update your retail skins, etc. I spend at least 2 hours talking to a new client, getting an idea of what they want and negotiating the project. Then another 1 to 3 hours at the end of the project getting it installed and making sure everything works as planned; and this is with a simple, normal skinning job and these are not billable hours.

Hey Pank, how's your new Porsche? I'm running out of garage room, I'll probably have to buy a new house soon with something more than this pitiful 6-car garage.. This house just doesn't go with my Enzo.

I like them, C. Birch. Definitely more my style than what the typical vB skinner puts out.. clean, sharp, attracts the eye without distracting. One thing I would say is I'd like to see some padding in most of your div's-- give your text some breathing space so it's not always butting up against the edges and lines. Cheers..

thanx :) i have always thinked about maybe starting a skinning site but i step back and then think about the time everything takes and come to terms with the fact i just dont have the free hours in my life to do it.

what design where you on about with the padding on the cell's? http://community.ultimate-music.net/ on the forums and topic listing?

true about nice clean designes when i came to vbulletin a year back i was all for flashy designs and i even have a flashy one myself
i converted myself from a free vb2 skin

however the point is i am quickly realising if i have a scope for my site in terms of getting larger eventually i will have to cut back on graphic designs and do more color designs
conserving bandwidth / serverload etc

i have noticed myself that the larger sites have good designs but are not graphic heavy

my new vb3 > * :\

that's all that matters.

LOL LOL LOL

I know, i mean COME ON we are raking in the dough LOL


( To bad its not enough for much of anything unless you have a HUGE clientel and have sold tons of the styles )

graphic heavy ?

i was talking about forums with posts in their millions and users in their thousands

http://www.avsforum.com/

nope it's not graphic heavy, i'm not a fan of graphic heavy skins

it's also not your place to say what is and what isn't right for everyone else.. if they choose a graphics heavy skin, it is of their own accord.. if you don't, that is of your own accord.. but saying people get charged too much, and then seeing what these cats have to go through on a daily basis, you wouldn't do it that cheap yourself..

having your own business often requires a ton of "free" goodies that are extras that are thrown in for either customer satisfaction, or to show that one will go the extra mile to keep their customers happy.. having said that, it's also fairly obvious that you have never run a business, been involved with the back office part of a business, or had to negotiate terms to help a business get awarded a job or multiple jobs.. and until you know what all of that is like, including customer satisfaction, i would think it in your own best interest to not worry about how much someone does or doesn't get paid for a job they do.. because you have no clue what that person has had to endure just to get the gig.

what u on about he never said anything about forcing his opinion on anyone else :ermm:

why do you have such a hard on when it comes to my posts? honestly, please just answer me this, as it's not the first time you've full blown orgasmed in my face with whatever is shoved up your arse? you have no idea who i am or what i do for a living, if you honestly feel that as 23 i'm flipping burgers or slaving away for someone else then so be it, but come on, please don't publicise those assumptions as facts, fact of the matter if, you're a sad twat, i am allowed to have an opinion, whether you like it or not, so please in future, just ++++ off and grow up.

thanks for clearing that up, after reading his post, i was starting to get confused :D ;)

actually, i am not on about anything.. nor am i trying to follow you around and comment on your posts.. but saying someone charges too much or stating you wouldn't pay for something is not even remotely related to this thread.. it's about the fact there are so few publicly known vb based designers that folks know they can trust and depend on to get work done.. i have also made no assumptions based on your age or anything else.. i assume at the age of 23 you are either in college or have begun a career track.. what i was pointing out is that it is not your decision or your choice as to what or why people charge what they do for the services, or lack there of, that they offer..

now, as far as me f'ing off, be glad to.. but as you said, my opinion is unto me as your is unto you.. i am just tired of seeing several people bad mouth, or talk down to others around here and injecting there opinions in something that does not firectly relate to anything about remotely reagrding the topic, the work, the existence of the thread or anything else.. it is not promoting the usefulness of the thread and only goes to counteract the exact reason for the thread.. vb designers are needed as are more developers of custom work.. the money they charge is strictly between themselves and the customer..

as for your responses to the threads themselves, i could careless.. i just think more people should consider what they say, why they say it, and who they are saying it to.. a little consideration goes a very long way..

why is it a small number of people have to start swearing and that in a topic like this, is there any real need for it?

yes, theirs a very real need for it, as in such a discussion i take offence to a personal attack on me, so really you should ask if theirs any need for that, personally i felt that 13th Disciple should've behaved better than that, and my single swear word went along way in showing my infurity towards the matter.

regarding the actual subject matter of the thread, i will in actual fact repeat my initial sentiments, i feel people are overcharged in terms of skins, whether or not you or any other designer likes it or not, i feel that's the case, if i could was marketing my skills in saying so and saying i charge half what these guys do then that would be one thing, but i'm not, i'm giving my opinion in regards to a subject brought forth in the lounge.

Cut out the offensiveness before this thread gets closed, which would be a shame.

I don't feel designers/skinners/whatever you want to call them charge too much, they charge depending on the amount of work that's involved in each specific project. I wouldn't charge $100 to someone for a design as high quality as WiredGamers for example, it's just not practical, do the math. You're working many many hours to design, developer and deliver a skin and should charge accordingly.

Back to original, there's quite a few vB designers around, you just have to know where to look for them. :)

no ones asking you too, but in stating my opinion that in general designers are overcharged for skins, i don't expect to be attacked, people charging $5k for custom jobbies will always be ridiculous to me, just for a forum skin.

yeh i agree theres nothing wrong with stating an opinion especially if its linked to the forum topic in the first place
the last thing expected was to get gunned down by 13thdisciple

no offence but i saw that as an attack @ 13th

and i agree to the fact that forum skins do get overcharged
especially considering the whole forum is already pre done
its only a bit of css and html and all within the forum itself
vb3 is also the easiest skinnable forum out there

however it depends upon how far the customisation has gone
if its just graphics and html then no
but if its a proper custom design with all new php coding
and a whole website custom designed to fit the users needs in terms of what they want
IE new custom script (stats page)
then i would say they charge no more then other web designers out there
however thats web designers and not just forum skinners

lol having said that if i could afford 5k to skin a forum i might aswell go all out and get myself a whole site made at enterprise level

Heck would i pay in the thousands for a skin, thats just stupid, You could buy a car for that Shesh, when i see them prices you cant help but laugh, most i would pay for a skin would most likely be $50 and then id expect it to be a real nice graphic one. Moan all you want if you think thats cheap but if you think about it, thats not cheap.

It's an hourly business.. you charge what you're worth and you charge for the hours you spend.

$50 for a retail skin is fine, actually high-- but this means 100 other sites could have the same skin. But if you expect to pay $50 for a custom skin that only you will own, that is absolutely ridiculous.

BTW, the site that claims 'custom skins start at $5000' is a joke and even I'll laugh at that until someone shows me a skin that took them more than 50 hours of real work.

If i paid $5000 for a custom skin i would expect to be able to walk around in it and everything :p

Then you're stupid and have no idea what goes into making a skin obviously. The amount of time spent on client negotiations, time working on a skin from original sketches to something coming out of PS and then for it to be coded, and that's only worth $50? Humm ok. :rolleyes:

If you think about it? I doubt you've thought it through, You have to talk with the client for at least an hour discussing exactly what he wants - Then Draw something up(Sketch) - Then make it in whatever graphics program you prefer - Then code it up for vBulletin, I've gotten $100 for simply coding a skin someone else made, and your telling me producing a skin from scratch is only worth $50?

I think we need to make the distinction between a "retail skin" that many customers can purchase and a unique skin custom designed and sold only once.

I don't mind posting prices here since I'll freely give them when quoting a new client. I typically charge $450 to $750 for a custom skin, depending on complexity and if there is any PHP involved. My retail skins sell for $30. Big difference..!