GameCrash, how many people read a license before they accually use a software / program?

about 5-10% read part of it and less read the whole thing. Just because someone says you cant unless you have the power to enforce it its hard stoping them.

I think he's referring to the vBulletin license. Your vBHosting license does, indeed, prohibit this. But it's not really germaine to the discussion.

No, yours automated the whole process.

Trust me, if they asked me to stop i would :)

I'm sorry I can't find anything about automatisation in the license...?

Personally i think this is a brilliant hack , it's has enabled me to do what i wanted with my forum. Seperate headers/styles per forum. This hack is the closest that comes to it & in fact makes it really easy to do it.

Yes i know you can select a different style per forum , but this way is much easier to manage. If jelsoft does decide this is an "illegal" hack against their liscence system then i will forget about the fact im up for renewal. And stick with what i have.

And as was stated in a previous post by nighteye's , it could be construed that we are allready violating the agreement by having admins who can access the admin menu.
Personally if so i shall get legal advice on this - as Jelsoft would be nullifying their aggreement by giving us the ability to make admins.

With what reason do you want to forbid us to do everything a license allows just because it could be others do not read a license? I'm realy not understanding the logic here... :confused:

Thats not what i was saying, many people do things that are not correct with a software even if they do read the license, try reading the whole MS EULA when you install WindowsXP next time. :)

My point is someone is probaly going to abuse this, it sort of borders on a lockdown hack in a sense.


But Wayne did say it was going to go under review, not removed totaly, unless ive miss another one of his posts.

This is an interesting point as I have got a nice email today (really) that states my license expires in one week...

addon to my post. After reading the liscence again. It could be deemed that we would need written consent to have an admin.! - well it could be interprited that way anyway.

No, it couldn't. There's no way the license could be interpreted to mean that. The prohibitions refer specifically to distribution of the software, and do not refer to use of it.

If someone wants to do illegal things, they will start eMule and download their own vBulletin copy... Of course, it's possible to do illegal things with this hack. But then it should not be allowed for Jelsoft to sell vBulletin (well, someone could illegaly download it from eMule...). I really don't think this is my problem. Especially as nobody without a vBulletin license can download the hack from vB.org and if they have a license, you can easily fight them if they do illegal things, can't you?

Yes I was referring to the actual vBulletin license. Okay but here is another question I have.

John Doe has a vbulleting forum, someone approaches him and says "Hey I like your vbulletin forum, can you CO HOST a sub forum on your forum? It pretty much fits your forums and all"

Now if John Doe accepets and decides to create a new forum or sub forum, or any other words Co Host a forum on his site, is that really breaking the vb license? Cause if that is the case, not that im trying to be an a** hole, but I can point several hundred vbulletin ran sites of different genres that are doing that same thing, but with out a hack to automate the full process"

I'm with you Vampire Man... I'll switch to IPB and use their system which is just like vBHosting... that is if vB doesn't approve of this hack.

nope its big brother telling us what we can an cant have.The lockdown hack as previously stated can be used for anything just like the hide hack and does have its uses the same way a spoiler does but jelsoft decided pirated boards used it so they said NO and that was end of matter - no further discussion and i bet this hack falls under the same category.
Jelsoft are actually gonna make this hack SPECIAL just by removing it cause obviously some people would of already downloaded it by now ( i was`nt one cause i was to slow) and whether GameCrash decided to continue work on it or not following the Jelsoft decision i can bet it wont be the end of the hack as someone will just improve on it and make it go underground then jelsoft will have to go after all the legal boards using this hack while in the process of classing them as Pirated boards.

As long as there is only one installation of the software in use, no, he is not violating the license.

okay back to square one then, he is using only one installation of the software and using this hack, but all of a sudden he is violating the license right? Wich goes back to someone abusing this hack and using it for profits.

Yep a huge number of installations do exactly what you describe. This is why Wayne has started using language along the lines of "semi-automated" and "automated" code to achieve subforums as probably being illegal. As far as all of us can tell, these terms are not strictly laid out in our licensing agreement; this language will probably appear in a revised agreement to be forced upon us in future upgrades. :)

Personally I think when a company starts trying to stifle creativty and innovation to boost profit margins its time to move over to another product. We'll have to see what their final determination is first of course........

I would rather stay with vb , lets hope they see the benifit of a superb hack like this.

No, I do not believe he is violating the license. The license makes no reference to this issue, or to issues of profit (other than selling or leasing the software itself, which nobody is doing here). Neither are prohibited.

Seeing all this from the other side, this thread is perfect pr for my hack ;) I hadn't that many people and that many posts in that time in the hack thread :)

That basically sums up everything!!!

I don't think it is as big of a problem as jelsoft is making it. Just add a TOS to the hack that says you can't sell the forums that are created or something like that.

Or maybe it competes with the upcoming "admin demo" thingy thats jelsoft is presenting pretty soon. It is kinda ironic that someone created a "virtual admin demo" before the actual software programmers released their own.

it is one install, one domain, one license,yada, yada,yada...

I'm curious to see how this turns out.

I imagine that will be the case. Future versions of the license will probably contain such language.

were all backing u up m8 cause we hate to see the little guy,get pushed around :)

rofl

Why? Charging users to have subforums is done in many forums without a hack, so I don't think this violates the license agreement at all. It's really a moral issue, and not something mandated in the agreement. I don't think anyone is ever going to consider purchasing or getting a subforum a suitable alternative to buying a real vB.

I'm upset that I never saw this hack before it was removed; I really hope it returns.

Yeah but I bet Jelsoft never saw it as a threat until a automation utility came out. So where does Jelsoft go from here.

A. Bury the hack, and contact several hunder boards that are currently Co-Hosting small forums?

B. Purchase the hack from the creator and build opon it


I have one leased license and 1 owned license awaiting to be renewed and 6 more to purchase, I think i'll wait.

Jelsoft = Microsoft?

they could release is as vbulletin corperate edition.

I'm not trying to be funny here, but Jelsoft have just shot themselves in the foot. Nothing in the license agreement prohibits this hack - the hack itself does nothing illegal.

Companies that prohibit use of something because it is not in their interest do not fair well in the public spotlight. It's like when Microsoft coded a version of Windows that wouldn't allow Netscape to work 'out of the box'.

Claiming this hack is illegal is ridiculous - claiming it is against the license agreement is less so, but still too headstrong. Just because you write a license agreement for the use of your software does not make it the word of law.

It's like a record label suing the maker of a CD writer because it might or could be used to copy CD's they make.

I have over 70 forums that I 'hosted', before I had this hack. All this does is allow the users to do the tasks they would usually have to e-mail me to do. Saving me time. This loses nobody profit - the people I host forums for would never even consider buying vB. I don't see what the problem is here.

My forums are coming up for re-newal also - if this hack is 'outlawed' I might find myself making the switch to a system that doesn't view this situation so aggresively.

nah I think vBulletin DataCenter or vBulletin Small Business Manager

I just thought , if the hostingcp was recoded with no vb core routines - then this hack could be marketed as an addon to vb with it's own liscence. That would change the situation somewhat.

Folks, I don't think there's much point in discussing the morality of the situation here. It's a simple legal issue based upon the interpretation of a [relatively simple] licensing agreement; that's all this is going to hinge on.

Obviously, this hack isn't in Jelsoft's long-term interests; to allow an EZBoard situation would be damaging to them as a company (more damaging than a few vBulletin.org readers refusing to renew their licenses). However, whether or not it is in their interests, the only thing relevant to this discussion is the terms of the license agreement - either the hack violates the agreement, or it does not.

As I've stated several times, I am fully confident that the hack does not violate the agreement; confident enough that I feel I could easily withstand any legal challenge on the matter, and confident enough that I would use the hack if [the hack author's] own license terms didn't conflict with my desired usage of the hack (but that's another issue).

Agreed.

A licensing agreement is a form of contract, and is fully legally binding on both parties until the agreement is disolved (either by breach, mutual consent or expiration).

In your case no one is loosing profit. But this hack allows one to Host forums or Co-Host a forum on a one vbulletin install license, wich is what you just admitted to right? So take your same situation to a John doe thats charging like $5 per setup for some person that just wants a lil vb forum, and thats where the problem comes.

Hell if this hack is outlawed then co-hosting forums on a one vbulleting install license should be outlawed as well.

Not in Jelsoft's interests, certainly, but perfectly legal according to their licensing agreement (however, not so according to the licensing agreement governing the hack itself - but that has nothing to do with Jelsoft, just with the author of the hack).

btw: Everyone should consider, that this is not a decision of Jelsoft atm, but 'only' the reaction of a handful of mods (nothing personal against any of the mods ... definately not. They're just trying to do their job), because they a in doubt if this is legal and want this to be discussed, rather than watching a 'possible' license infringement to grow more and more.

In other words: Don't blame Jelsoft until a descision has been made.

I can understand Jelsoft's point, I just feel this hasn't been handled appropriately.

Several hundred sites are already doing this, but now with "automation"

I'm confident as well, but we all know at the end of the day this hack was taken offline because one could actually use it as a EZBoard setup and use the vBulletin 3 subscription feature and charge actually make a profit charging people. I'm sorry im just thinking outside the box.

I am fully confident that it does not break the license agreement, but Wayne does have a right to have this investigated. If it is not reinstated, however, then we can jump on in an get pissed off about it all. Until then, though, just relax.