Fair points there ;)

I only release hacks that I have totally recoded. (The shoutbox hack is one example, except for the templates, but I got permission to use those). I also ported the arcade hack, but I refuse to post it because I didn't recode it, I just made it work for vB3.

I see nothing wrong with releasing similar hacks for vB3 that were made on vB2 if they recode it from scratch.

Well, my personal feelings are:

If it is a "unique" idea (unique as in one that not every other forum software has, or maybe a non-major feature of say one forum), give the original hacker(s) a CHANCE to publish it themselves first (atleast). The "new" hacker could either contact the original hacker(s) to let them know that the "new" hacker coded there own and would like to share it, and ask the original hacker(s) if they plan on releasing a vb 3 version or atleast give them 2-3 months of vbulletin.org allowing vb 3 hacks (being the mainstream hack forum) to release it. AND, if you do release a hack that has already been released, give credit where credit is due. If you made the hack because the loved their vb 2 version or because you saw the title and thought "hey, I wanna try doing that one my own way", acknowledge the original hacker(s) work, imagination, and inspiration (to you) in your hack description.

I have seen many hacks with a intro saying something to the effect of "Many thanks goes to {person}. Their {original hack} was the insipiration for mine." or "My idea for the new and improved {hack} came from the great work of {person} on {original hack}." That way, they still get credit for their ingenius idea, good / great work, and original foresight inseeing that it would be a great hack... Now, don't copy their code, add a few lines, and think that adding a thank you will do, because that is even more of a slap in the face (besides being illegal in many countries, I don't know the laws in all countries)...

I see the hacks of this forum (and any other forum) as being a result of one of two options (again, personal feelings, I may be wrong):
1) The hacker saw / thought of an idea / feature that they wanted for their own forum, coded it, implemented it, loved it, and wanted to share it with the rest of the community (i.e. - major reason of hack was for personal use)
2) The hacker just wanted to create hacks that they thought people would want, but could live with or without it on their forum (i.e. - major reason was to release hack, whether for the betterment of the software, the community, or the hackers reputation ;))

If the "new" hacker fits into category one, then once they have it installed on their forum their appetite should be somewhat satisfied and the hack has fulfilled its reason for being. Waiting to release the hack for a few months or not releasing the hack at all should be not biggy, as releasing the hack would just be an added "benefit"...

If the "new" hacker fits into category two, then they shouldn't be coding the hacks that are already out there and created by someone else. Instead better the software, community, or especially their hacker reputation by creating a "new" hack. If the "new" hacker needs ideas as to what people want or what hack to create, they could vist my vb 3.1 feature suggestion thread on vbulletin.com. There are oodles and oodles of great suggestions in there. So of the suggestions are already hacks, but I have a feeling that a lot are not... The could find one that grabs their interest, check if a hack already exists, and if not have at it. Then, they have not only added to the software / community as a whole, but also created a name for themselves by being the FIRST to release that hack... It is not like we are at a stagnant put in the forum, where the forum contains every possible idea / feature or a hack exists for every idea / feature. Their is a virtual catalog of ideas already compiled AND desired (those are all features suggested by fellow members / forum owners) in one easy to access place...

Well, those are my personal feelings on the topic... Of course, I don't have any hacks yet, so I may think differently once I do... ;)

On a side note, what you y'all think of (once vbulletin.org allows vb 3 hacks) me releasing my own spellchecker? I just modified my spellchecker that I created for phpBB to work for vb 3, and was hoping to release it as my very first hack (and it even works on the WYSIWYG editor, well sort of, I have a few tweaks to finish with the extra html crap the WYSIWYG creates but almost there). BUT, I don't want to step on any toes or offend anyone (I am assuming that one or several people already have spellchecker hacks for vb 2 out), so do you think I should or not? I don't mind not releasing it, but I have read several times on vbulletin.com that people have their spellcheckers working in vb 3 minus the WYSIWYG... So, yah or nah?!?

If you can find any security holes in my store hack then i am more then pleased to hear it from you. Maybe you should look better on the code or script before you judge it.

Try to come with a direction of 'why' it sucks.

Again, maybe you should look better before you say anything. Shinraonline was one of the first vb forums with a store hack, i gave them credit since day 1 on my first post. :ermm:

Sometimes, the difference between new code on an ancient idea (allowed) and couterfeiting (forbidden) is very slight. This question should be resolved soon because troubles are going to happen. We have opened a thread in our forum (www.vbulletin-fr.com) to discuss this subject.

In the french community, we have collected permissions from authors before translating hacks. But some of them have made hacks on ideas of other coders. Must we control the old versions ? For instance, you can see this link. We have the permission to translate Gary W's hacks but we do not have the permission of g-force2k2. I've read the 2 hacks and I do not find similar code but I dont't want to hurt g-force2k2. It would be better to create a clear rule to define what is allowed and what is prohibited.
An idea is not protected but if we don't want to lose plenty of coders, we should be careful to respect the original ideas.

To be careful, I have to stop the release of the french translation of this hack. I think this situation is very bad.

First of all, I do see the dilemna here, but I'm not sure there's anything you can do about it. If someone is good enough with PHP to figure it out, they're not going to wait until you decide to redo the hack. I know, if I knew PHP, I'd be hacking my board like crazy. Although, if I did happen to release it as an "official hack", I'd surely credit the original creator.

Second, what forum? Where are there some new vB3.0 hacks??? I'd love to see them!

[edit] Ah...I see. vbnl. :up:

All it is, is competition. Of course a lot of the original hackers may whine about how it's not fair... probably because that other hack could become BETTER than theirs.

The two could put their ideas/php skills TOGETHER and make an even better hack. But, that may not happen because some rather say "MINE MINE MINE, ALL MINE!." :ermm:

First off if you compared the two hacks you would clearly see the explicit copyrights of my hack. Secondly I was not even credited for absolutely nothing in the release. Thirdly I fail to see how the two hacks have that much of a difference in coding. You say that they aren't similar? No disrespect but I find that insulting, because I can clearly see the exact similarities. He made a few changes in the code to suite the page navigation and the vbphrases but other then that he used the code that I had created, the time calculating function that I created. Sure the templates are different, but other then that I see very little differences. If you really want to port over Gary W.'s, I'd advise not too. There's a lot of things I would do different from what I had first created in order to optimize it for vb3. Other then that I can say my copyrights were not respected the least bit, and if that is the respect that I will get then I'd rather not hack for vb3, because personally I don't even have a live forum I just hack vb for the purposes to create modifications for others to use.

Regards,
g-force2k2

Sophocle - I think you'll find that with the introduction of the phrases system that if people only provide a myhack_phrases.php file then you're site offering translations will become redundant.

I don't think so. Phrases must be translated and I don't know a lot of good translators.
G-Force, I didn't want to judge if Gary W copied or not your hack. I just tried to put the stress on an example of copy/adaptation trouble.

He copied a hack I released on vbulletin.nl and vbulletin.org and released it here as his own work, this was recogn. and removed by the admins. I am pretty sure he has just made more hacks 'his own work'.

Well the reason I don't allow your community or any other community to translate my hacks is because you're not official. Simple as that. You could have unlicensed users there being given hacks which I do not agree with whatsoever. But we're drifting off topic...

To who was that post reply mist?

They can re-do my worthless hacks all they want. I am doing new ones and most of them I will keep for myself. Too many members here care about the hack count more than they care about quality coding. Lesane did quality coding. And Logician and a few others that you don't see around as much as you used to. It stopped being fun. I miss the old days.

Just my 3 1/2 cents worth. ;)

And Lesane, you've become quite a beauty since you were last here (your avatar). If only I weren't married. ;)

It was directed to Sophocle - not you floris :)

All of those have been done to death for a while already. I'd say about 4 months. And none of the new versions really have anything new to add, be it functionality wise, code wise or interface wise. To me, it's like those people just want to get well-known here by leeching off of a successful concept. The ancient old "everyone wants to get their share of the pie" consensus. Not that that's such a bad thing, but when it means that less and less people are putting effort into new, unique, revolutionary ideas, it becomes a bit of a bore and a nuisance.


Very important line, there.
Sure, people won't like to see their work or idea repeated / redone by someone else, on the very same site even, but as much as vB.org says that every Hack is Copyright their respective owner, nobody here has ever patented their hack concept, and copyrighting your hack does not prevent others (legally or otherwise) to make the same thing with their own efforts. It's not entirely nice, but aside of b!tching and yelling, there's little you can do against it.

He might've come up with it on his own, but I had a 'store hack'-like system running on my site well before I ever saw his store hack appear here. Note that I'm not implying that he got the idea off of mine, however. I'm quite sure that that's not the case, cos his store hack's contents and mine are 100% different.
Anyway, back on topic...

I've released a vB3-port today. The Miserable Users hack. Why didn't I wait for the original author to release it?
- I haven't seen Zzed say anywhere s?he was planning on making a vB3-port of the hack;
- I had already ported it for a buddy of mine and then installed it on my own site as well (so basically the port was already done);
- people were asking all over the place for the port to be made;
- I made sure to fully credit Zzed as the original hack author and creator of the concept in my Hack, in both the thread as the hack code itself. I only claimed ownership of the port, not of the Hack as it is, itself.

With all that, I figured it wouldn't be a big deal that I released it instead of sitting around with the Hack and depriving others of it. That all, and the fact that the Miserable Users hack isn't a majorly big thing. It's not a Store Hack or anything, it's a rather simple thing that has been reduced to a no-file-edits, template-based hack (phpinclude_start template). If Zzed contacts me and wishes me to remove my thread so he can release his port himself (if he even bothers making a port and re-doing what I've already done, that is), I'll comply. It is still his Hack, in my eyes, and I've no wish to take away from that fact.

If someone whose hack I port over to vB3 does not wish me to do so, I'll remove it without a fuss. For bigger hacks, I wouldn't port but just make my own thing from scratch, be it original or based off of an existing hack (that I may or may not know of).

As such, I don't see the harm in others doing the same with my hacks, though for the bigger hacks I personally recommend others not to bother with porting them over to vB3 - I'm rewriting them all and adding to them immensely, in ways that no other will be doing during a port. :)

haha :D, offtopic: how are you doing boofo? Long time no see :(

btw.. Faranth, i hope you do know what you throw/say at a forum and hope you could point me to my security holes in my store hack and why the code sucks badly. ::sarcastic::

I am very suprised about these php'ers wich think they all that, they all whine about my code but none of them could improve my code. People over vbulletin.nl are whining about my code but none could say why or could improve it.

Just don't talk about any security holes in my store hack if there aren't any.

This thread turning into a personal rant thread?
Please don't generalize the members on my web site.
I'd hate having to ask a staff member to close the thread because things are getting out of hand. I rather continue on a normal conversation.

What hack are you talking about? The administrators are able to read user's PMs one? You really think I copied that from you?

If the thread wasn't deleted, then I would have asked you to look again. Anyways, I believe the hack is still there (just invisible to regular users like you and me, but staff can see it still) so they could check the code and I can assure you that I didn't copy a single thing from your code :)

As long as the person does a good job of porting my hacks..... then its ok with me.

If someone says here in this thread that my store hack contains security holes and that the code sucks then i reply to that and i want an explanation. Obviously right? Anyone would of contact me if he would find a security hole in my store hack. Faranth probably couldn't even find one!

Very cheap if you talk like that about my store hack without any proper statement or evidence, if he can ok then cool but if he don't then he shouldn't talk about my store hack like that. He gives members/users here on this forum a wrong image of my store hack wich i don't appreciate. I guess you won't either if someone talk like that about one of your released hacks floris.

I wil contact him through pm because he probably don't reply here anymore and then i demand that his post will be edited or even deleted by the staff here because his post is definately not appropriate!

i saw a group of hackers reak havok via your store hack on the forum, with using some secutiry holes, i knew they were not admins, i knew they didnt have admin access. however they never insisted to shrae some stuff with me. a few other hackers here that i know warned me not to use your hack due to some major secutiry holes, i never asked to know the securit holes as the ppl who cantected me i trsuted / the ppl i asked.



in the past when i used your store hack, my other admin followed all the instructions and only half of the features work, and the other half didnt even seem to function. so i though up a test board and installed it my self. and it didnt work, from that point on i decided that the ppl who warned me and their opinioins were right. i have no knowleged of the holes but ive seen them exploited

Yes, true in that view if we talk about earlier versions of the store hack. Not true if you talk about my new version: 3.0. Ofcourse, we as php coders can never say that a script is 100% secure, but i think that i am very close to that percentage with my new version 3.0. So if someone says that 3.0 contains security holes then i slap my head and want to know about it. But you are giving your opinion/critism on earlier versions of the store hack, i mean.. we don't judge vb 2.2.2 when 2.3.4 is out and we don't judge vb3 beta 1 when vb3 rc1 is out right? ;)

And my forum had 3 admins a half year ago while i only had 2 admins, a very friendly hacker pointed me to my mistakes in my coding, from then i have learned alot regarding security and improved my code. I appreciate it if people judge the code/script of the new version instead of any earlier versions.

i havd never meant it an attack on current version, so i am sorry if it came out that way :\

Thats how i took it Faranth that you was regarding towards the new store hack. My bad ;)

The no hacks was a vb.org club rule. If you snooz you lose. One should never put all their eggs in one basket. There were other places that you could have coded at.

I don't think anyone but the original author should release a future version unless they were given permission. To me, hacks and mods are improved on the best by only the original author, especially larger ones (such as the store hack ;)) since they were the one who coded it to begin with.

Miker not always true, but some things like newest posts, and very small mini mods are frivilous, theres only one way to do them

like ammount of new posts / threads :) no other way to do that, the only thing that might change is the html :)

I disagree with some of it - there's plenty of cases where someone else could make a much better improvement of a hack than the original hack author.

Np, faranth. :)

noppid, that one basket is the official place to hack vbulletin. If you put your hacks in any other place then unlicensed people get the change to get your hacks. Wich is a thing wich most of us want to prevent!

And a store hack could have many different directions if we talk about layout(html) , code and purpose. Yoshi showed us a whole different store hack then mine.

I have a completely different one as well.

I had a completely different one too, that used NO extra queries in showing the items. :) Believe it or not. But it was way too customized to be released, and I haven't yet ported it over to vB3. But I will one day for my site.

Oh I remember that store. How beasty was it ;)