YIKES!...all this sounds good on paper but by the time RC gets released and this gets put into play, it could be summer already.

Everyone is not a perfect coder and some are still learning. I say filter all the hacks through the beta forum until it is confirmed that it is ready to be released. Who needs a code rating and who wants someone to micro manage their hacks.

i'm not totally downing the idea, I just think some of the suggestions of how it should work are overkill. I say we keep it as simple as possible.

There has emerged atleast 3 other hacking sites since the betas have come out. Do we really want that one awesome hack to be an exclusive on another board because the author got ++++ed because he got a silver rating for not being able to offer support? <---not a good case to argue but you get my point.

I say we keep it simple and encourage innovation or however you spell it. How many "points systems" or "you need x amount of posts" to do this are we gonna see.

What if the Approved forum is only open for admins/mods to post in. Make everyone post in the beta forum, and when an experienced hacker thinks its ready, let him move the thread

Forget my last post....I thought this was an overal view of all posts. Not just security.

If its just security we are talking about, can we just have green and red images beside the hack somewhere. green means it's safe, red means its bad.

will hacks be able to be posted when Vbulletin goes GAMMA?

Would you want to spend hours and hours making something then have to turn around a few weeks later and redo it? If you want a hack now so bad, make it yourself. Otherwise, quit wasting bandwidth and my time posting. That would be super, thanks.

-Colin

BigJohn, vB is expecting the release of vB3 in late november, no hacks will not be released until then. I believe the vB developer wishes that as well, you should read the front page news before you ask.

I did read but vb.org said once vb hits RC1 you can then release hacks. Now that vb.com said it wont be RC1. It will prob be GAMMA they said. So I am asking if hacks will be able to be released for the GAMMA here at vb.org

vb.org still states that hack will be released once RC1 is released, gamma doesn't change that fact. ;)

Gio is correct.

Besides, according to vB and jelsoft, Kier says that RC WILL be released before end of 2003, so you have 95% chance that vB3 will be released in December.

Just browsing through, is there any need to be rude?

Im pretty new around here but the first post should set the standard here on this thread!...Im sick and tired of installing hacks, then having to come back for help and help is not given by the creator!...

In this up coming week I will be removing about 3 full hacks which the creators have not responded to help questions in the last 2 months...I don't want to use a hack that will not have support or is not working properly....

I support all hacks and the creators of their hacks, but PLEASE follow thru with what you create!

This is the only and best site to get hacks, just wish there was a standard or a set of rules to govern what is created and support....

Hats off to all who have gave up their time to others to better the system...now lets get the ball rollin and keep it high...

MuSuL

A lot of the hackers have lives outside of vB. :) So they may not have time to answer questions in their hack threads, especially if the question has been answered before.

We used to have a tag that stated whether the hack author would support the hack or not. Maybe we need that back...

yes we will need that Back ;)

Interesting concept, but I'd like to add a little...err..a lot. :D

When posting a new hack, offer an option to the hack writer to have it "certified". This would basically be the in-depth inspection mentioned in the first post..but it wouldn't be free. If someone writes a hack and wishes for it to be "certified" as functional and secure, they can have it looked over by by a qualified person for a small fee...a couple bucks. This fee would go to the person who certifies the hack via Paypal. Perhaps smaller fees for super simple hacks.

The couple bucks is a small amount to pay to have a hack certified, but for someone who knows what they are doing, they could certify a few hacks a month and earn some spending money, or money to pay for their cable internet. Of course in order to be able to certify hacks, you would have to prove yourself a worthy coder.

So here's how I think it should work...

Member goes to post a new hack...
They choose whether or not to have it certified by a "professional".
If they choose yes, then the hack gets posted to an area only accessible to those members that have been designated to be able to certify new hacks, and an overview of the hack gets posted to a "waiting for cert" section viewable by all members. (this would prevent someone from attempting to code something that is already in the pipeline for release)

Those people that are able to certify hacks would have a section that lists all hacks currently requiring certification, and they can then choose which hack they want to work on. They would only be able to certify one hack at a time. The person who certifies a hack would also be responsible for providing support for that hack, since during the inspection process, they would know the code as well or better than the original writer. After the hack is certified, they are paid via Paypal and the hack gets posted with a "certified" icon. Payment not sent? Hack not posted. Simple.

If the hack writer chooses to not have his work certified, it gets posted immediately with an "as is" and "not certified" warning, and people can download and install it at their own risk, with support offered when possible.


This pay-for-certification system would benefit everyone. The hack writer would get piece of mind knowing that his hack is worthy of a "certified" icon, and can begin work on new projects while support for his certified hacks is provided by someone else.

The certifier benefits financially for his time and work.

The end user benefits by having the choice to only install certified hacks and gets piece of mind knowing that certifed hacks will always be supported.

Additionally, it would be great if anyone could pay to have a hack certified. For example...

Member XXX posts a really great hack, but for whatever reason chooses not to pay to have it certified. Member ZZZ loves the hack concept, but is nervous about installing a non-certified hack, so member ZZZ can "sponsor" the certification process by paying for it himself.

Just my thoughts. I for one would have no problem in paying a small amount for the piece of mind in knowing that what i'm about to install wont cause security issues or conflicts.

This will not be a paid system. We're aiming to raise the overall quality of hacks with this, not to segregate and create a sort of "elite hacks" vs "plain hacks" system.

Moreover, payment for Hacks is not allowed on vB.org, and as far as I gather from vB.org and vB.com Staff, your proposal would fall under that mention and thus not be allowed to begin with.

Yes, I think there should be more made of the fact that most hackers are freely sharing their modifications and doing so in their spare time. It is frustrating to see support threads where hackers are criticized and attacked by people who do not even know if they have access masks enabled or not. This rudeness might discourage good people from contributing more hacks.

Since vb.org is starting fresh with vb3, it might be good to become less tolerant of people who badger hack creators and make a nuisance demanding (not suggesting) additional features. A hack is a hack, IMO. Take it as a free gift or just leave it alone. We are all administrators and should have some mutual respect for each other.

My mindset is that "authenticated" hacks should be presented in a way where a person of reasonable skill and caution can successfully install it. And maybe you can ask for volunteers who (with permission) would like to be caretaker of other people's hacks once the original hacker moves on?

PS. Yes, I know I have too much to say....but if feedback is solicited, I will give it! ;)

The Ease-of-Installing aspect of a hack will matter when we review Hacks. Something that is very nicely made but a complete B!tch to install, will possibly not be QA Approved because of that.

On the whole, though, there are ways to ensure that your hack is easy to install for people. One such way is by using the Hack Tracking Log to create your hacks. Tons of benefits come with that, one of which being the Installer Routine that comes with it, which will allow you to generate installer files that others can use, similar to Chen's vBHacker, but then taken to far higher levels of usability, ease of use, functionality, etc.


oh, and we're very happy with your feedback! :) Keep it coming! ^_^

I wasnt suggesting that anyone pay for hacks. I was suggesting a small fee be paid to the individual who validates and certifies a hack. Similar to the way your Service Requests forum operates.

I know, I got what you were suggesting. But that's still a paid system for the Hack author him-/herself.

Ahwell, it's not just my decision only or anything, but I can't see the benefits of making this be available only to those with money to spare, when our goal is to raise the quality of ALL hacks released here. Involving money in one way or another will create a `niche market`, pretty much, so that would defeat the purpose of all this. The Service Requests forum is for those with mucho $$$, not for your average joe hacker on this site (which is 95% of the userbase).

I prefer 5-point scales where 3 is average, 4 is above average, and 5 is well above average. (And if it is decided to have a 10-point scale, I'll just give ratings of 1, 3, 5, 7, 10.) Having an example of what qualifies would be helpful.

It'd also be nice to separate the criteria. So have a rating for documentation & implementation. But don't go overboard on this and have an "ease of installation" rating--otherwise the complex hacks would, by definition, have a lower rating. And who really cares about something subjective like that--what is trivial to one person may be confusing to another.

We're currently working hard on balancing out all the criteria and how important they really are for the Hack. It's quite a pickle indeed, as we have to cater to all people between 100% n00b and 100% masterful coder. But, we're doing the best we can and it's starting to look real good, now :)

is vb.org gonna offer vb3 hacks when gamma comes out???

.com asked them not to as altho the style will be inplace the backend is alteast another build from nearly final

poetic, it is stated in the announcements forum that when the vB3 RC is out, vB.org will then allow the hacks to be released, Gamma is Gamma, not Release Candidate.

ok sorry i just thought that gamma was pretty much RC1 just before it or something lol i thought they just wanted to rename it

vBulletin.org is at liberty to allow vB3 Hacks with the release of Gamma. However, Kier said that he would prefer it if they waited for RC1 instead, and the Admins of vBulletin.org decided (either on their own or due to Kier's request, I dunno) to wait for RC1 with allowing vB3 hacks.

So that's early december, then :)

From what vB says, they said around Christmas time.

My only input on this issue is to make sure every hack that uses MySQL queries uses:

" . TABLE_PREFIX . "table AS table

This is because vB3 now supports table prefixes and any hack that does not do this should not be quality assured. That is all 8)

There is a lot of new standards in VB3, The MySQL queries are just one of them :)

Other noobs is also the PHP (conditionals) in the templates, url link format and much much more .....

The devs have raised the standard of the overall coding of VB3 and in doing so the standards of the hacks will have to be lifted to comply. All of this will be taken into consideration during the QA process.

I have not read through all of this yet - but its a great idea, and maybe this was already mentioned, or planned, but it seemed the first half of the posts seemed to get to caught up in becoming an English teacher with a red pen.

I think the idea is awesome - but I think that when being reviewed that it should be more looked at not as a review or grading process, but as a finalization process. Most hacks are really not that big. Some are, but most are not. If there is something wrong with it - lets just fix it, give feedback of what was done, why it was done, and then release it as a completely solid piece of work - with no mention of any changes made or not made between submission and release.

The last part would be crucial as otherwise people would be scared of having to much red ink in the public eye - which I think you guys are trying to cover already anyway.

But again - if this process was used to just take out that extra two db calls and tighten stuff up, use more standard variable names, etc, this would be something spectacular for the community. If it became a king on high, you pass, you fail, thing - even if that was kept private to everyone but the person that "failed", it would kill things - it would create a three class system - the judges, the ones that are always accepted, and the ones that always fail. While the guys that didnt get accepted would be only known to that one person - that person is going to notice that some Pot Smoking goody goody (sorry overgrow - I have been around to long and still get a kick out of your forums topic and your importance in this community) - but anyway notice this pot smoking goody goody is always approved, while they are not - - which would start to build up resentment in some, and discourage them from submitting more.

done rambling - just full of my two cents remarks today -

Just finished browsing through the rest of these - and I will say point blank - the direction you are headed scares me - How dumb would it be to send something back to someone because they didnt put table prefixs in? Or something like that - when it takes probably less time to just fix it and get it released - nobody gets hurt, the community benifits by the hack being available, the hack writer gets feedback and knows next time to do that - if the same person keeps doing that, it takes one skim to see that, and the third time just hand it back then and say - "come on dude - we told you the other two times we need these table prefixs in it" just get those added and we will then look at it" - and still say then, that you have not looked at the code all other than to notice they missing prefixes so this is no rejection of anything cause nothing has been looked at.

Got to actually help, and in doing so, as corny as it sounds, inspire others to create more. Need no grading - which leads to praise - which is great - but what about the opposite end. There is no good with out bad in that system. The bad makes the good not worth having.

Well, gamma is here and soon all the talking will be replaced with action.

Just a personal thanks to the staff. Your efforts to keep things organized are appreciated. Whatever you do, a percentage of people will complain about it later. At least you tried to solicit opinions. ;)

Sounds good guys look forward to seeing what hacks are made for VB3 !

yes, vb3 hacks are going to be so great !

Around Feb 2004 was a reply on vb.com http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showp...74&postcount=8

they are not vb staff, I don't believe what they said. also I wanna know when too, but there is no clue for the final, any way, RC1 should be enough :D

Why waiting? --> --edit-- wrong url

Kier said ASAP. And the code will only change bugfixes.

well, I love the below post of Kier: hackers should start to work now :p
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showp...8&postcount=24

Yeah, I don't understand the VB.ORG policy when Kier so obviously sponsors the starts of hacking. Vb's message to the hackers has no positive effects, and only annoys people still waiting for a postponed RC1 with slighty bugfixes.