This isn't the best place to ask as Corey doesn't visit here anymore. He has been addressing the thread at WHT so i suggest making a comment over there :)

WHT?

Sorry www.webhostingtalk.com - the link to the thread is posted at www.raviowarning.com :)

Yeah, he won't respond over there. Hope that guy gets what's coming to him.

[edited by mist]

slinky - i've edited your post. If people had done what you said you'd both be breaking the law. Please don't post such things again :) Thanks.

Mist, I appreciate your zealousness and high regard for the law.

However, I cannot conceive what part of my post would be or might constitute, in any fashion, "breaking the law" and thus deleted in the entirety with your ambiguous follow-up message. If I am mistaken please let me know but given my day job I'd be extremely surprised if something I posted could in any way be a situation where myself and some other individual would "both be breaking the law." ;)

Let's see -- I said I paid for a skin and paypal told me that I had done so. After not receiving said skin my three requests for support are still unacknowledged to my knowledge and much to my chagrin. I certainly cannot see what is wrong with the reiteration of those facts and truth is the absolute defense against defamation, libel in this instance which is a civil cause of action. Additionally, I had mentioned that anyone who had information concerning the whereabouts of this individual's business would be of interest to me and I would check with my sources to see what we might be able to do in order to bring about a resolution of these matters.

I would enjoy continuing the conversation and understanding the reason for the 'moderation' of my post.

The fact is you paid for your product. If you didn't receieve it that does not entitle you to get the copy via other means. That is an invidual zip file which only you have rights for so you should pursue getting it with vbskins and if you feel necessary take action. So if someone gives you the style and continues to use the style themselves they will be breaking the law for breaking copyrights. Secondly you'll be breaking the law for using it. Compare it to buying a copy of office xp. Someone gives it you and continues to use it under their license.... :)

Just a little update on Corey Wojen & Co.

I had worked out a deal with him, that if he were to correct his problems with not only myself, but the other people he screwed, I would consider posting a follow-up on however he handled matter with me, and possibly even taking www.RavioWarning.com offline. Again, if he proved he had changed.

Well, from what I was told he was taking care of the clients that he had problems with, me included.. With regards to me, I spend probably 20 hours working with him on the new design, hacks and all.. I mean he was over half-way finished.. And POOOF! Gone again.. It's been almost a month.. Same story.. No contact.. No replies..
I actually started worrying about him considering the change I thought had taken place based on his actions, until I saw his new Ravio site design and progress on other sites..

I didn't loose any money, because I hadn't paid him a penny, though I told him I had decided to pay him because he had been working so hard on the new site design to makeup for the crappy first one (it was going to be a freebie job).. But, he just proved to me for the last time he is not to be trusted or relied upon..

I can only speculate on why someone would do what he does... He had EVERYTHING to gain by completing the work he was doing for me.. He was almost there! I even told him I was going to pay him $750.00 because of his effort to make things right and how hard he was working.. (Again, he started out doing it for free to make up for the past crap)

I'll admit, I have just shaken my head over this.. I wasn't going to use him at all, but he convinced me otherwise.. Made me believe he changed his business practices and then just cut his own throat with me.. (And others again) It sounds very characteristic of someone with substance abuse problems... Get some money and they go binge.. Of course, I am not saying that is his problem, but damn if I can?t figure out why the hell someone with talent and potential would just throws things down the tubes like that...

Of course, there are others out there that don't know his history.. Unfortunately, many will find out the hard way.

I have been in contact in the last couple weeks with a number of others past clients of Corey / Ravio that used to be very happy with him.. Some of them gave me the initial reference about him that was glowing, but turns out in the last year he has screwed many of them over as well, even after them sending him gifts + cash.. Their boards are sitting largely like mine was? With A LOT of bad code and barely functioning. They have sought out new coders and designers to fix them, since Corey never came back to fix the work, or the incomplete work that he never finished. That is one of his worst traits.. Not completing the work.. And it is one of OUR worst mistakes for making final payment prior to EVERYTHING being ironed out.. I am guilty of this.. I am guilty of a lot of things when it comes to Corey Wojen / Ravio.. But, I have learned my lesson, and it is an unfortunate one at that.. Because being burned by him has made me take a different stance when it comes to contracting people to do work.. Contracts.. No payment in full until the job is 100% complete, etc..
Before, I wouldn't have a problem leaving a few loose ends that need fixing and paying someone the money for their hard work, because I trusted they would get them fixed.. Most people I have met in the design/coding community are like this.. They do it because they like what they do, and they like the friends/associates they make along the way.. Well, some people just take advantage of that..
I hope all the Corey Wojen / C-UN-pr0mpt / Ravio groupies (if there are any more left) understand what he has done.. He has made people looking for designers, coders, etc, question WHO you are and what you do, and whether you are legit..

Anyway, I promised I would keep everyone informed about how things went with him.. Well, there it is.. I didn?t loose any money this time but I did get a GREAT BIG confirmation that nothing has changed.. I won?t waste space here, but for those of you that doubt it, I have every single email from this ?episode? as well..

If you use Corey Wojen / Ravio LLC, you DO SO AT YOUR OWN PERIL..

Thank you for the explanation Mist. Respectfully, are you speaking from experience with the legal system or the way you understand it to be?

There is a common law doctrine known as the "unclean hands" doctrine. In the example you gave, if someone purchased a license to use Windows XP from Microsoft directly and Microsoft (in this example) took their money but didn't give the customer a CD and the customer obtained a copy of the CD from another source and performed one install, Microsoft could not even come into court and sue the purchaser for infringement. Without even getting into the license that is actually purchased, since Microsoft had wrongfully breached the agreement and withheld the CD from the purchaser and kept the money, Microsoft would have "unclean hands" and could not avail itself of the protection of the courts to enforce the "agreement."

With regard to the logic, respectfully it is again aberrant and somewhat absurd. Let's not deal with the point of whether the Windows XP license is the physical CD or the right to install and run 1 copy of Windows XP on a single computer -- do you even think that, provided someone bought a Windows XP license with a key, that Microsoft could give a crap if that person left his CD at home and used a friend's copy to install it provided that person used his key and installed only one copy on one computer? You tell me -- what would even the damages be to Microsoft? There are none.

And if you think I have 'my remedies' to travel wherever this person is to get my file and take action, e.g. sue him in court (small claims only effective in the local county of the defendant) then who are we kidding? Let's get real....

I hope that before our moderators start editing and censoring entire posts here and accusing illegal actions by members of this forum, we might have a little discussion first to discuss rather than concluding.

Funny thread. Sad, but funny.

Yes you have the right to all of your little rants and stories of non work by Corey Wojen but do you really expect anything to come of posting these stories over and over again on each forum, there's no point.

Whoever created RavioWarning.com you're funny, what's the point in creating it? At most a couple of hundred of people have probably visited it, a quarter of the comments are probably made up in an attempt to further put down Corey Wojen for whatever reason. I doubt he, that is Corey Wojen, gives a **** about the website, as it looks childish; looks childish, with comments left by... probably children.

If you're going to make any complaint about him, do it professionally and do it legally and not posting on forums, which on the whole gives the whole situation a bad impression.

Make complaints "legally?" If I had been stiffed for several hundred bucks or a few thousand I might feel very angry so I cut these guys some slack. There's no other practical way to extract remuneration or retribution other than going after the culprit where he's most likely to surface for business... as well as the hope of preventing another person from experiencing the same agony.

Given how many of these people allegedly lost their money, I wouldn't be using the words "funny", "rants" and "childish" so loosely although I do concede some of the actions seem a little over the top and may not get the full impact desired.

Good argument. This thread, for example, has likely cost Corey some clients because of the irritation expressed.

I second that. I've tried contacting Corey twice in the past regarding him doing work for me. I never did hear from him, so I just figured he wasn't interested, but you'd think a decent business man would at least reply stating he/she isn't interested, or to busy.

After reading threads like this here, yaxay, and web hosting talk I can assure you I'll never be contacting Corey for any work what so ever, and I do recommend people stating clear of him.



-Michael

I had the same luck as you did till recently. It appears he isnt choosing to respond to my emails or trouble tickets. Several others I know are having the same problem.

i do agree, this argument is going to cost a few clients to ravio skins, but if you look at the majority, people dont take cautions as often as they should. I always would look for user feedbacks for anything if money is ever involved. And do a alround search about the company, which is in this case ravio.

But the thing i'm thinking about was, that someone is going to snap soon and might take legal action against Corey, but would i be worth paying all that money to take him to court, just for a few tempaltes, mabye yes, mabye no. I hope someone will stand up for themselfs, and do what they think will benifit them and others.

What if everyone gangs up and takes him to court as a whole?

then alot of people are going to get alot of money, he has no good advantage other than he was busy or he didnt have time. Both the same thing. I'm not sure though, somewhere i heard, innocent before proven guilty, so....

I think you are being a little naive? If you go into business with that attitude then you'll be morally correct and bankrupt in reality. There is no substitute for using the knowledge base available to you. If the accusers are wrong then Ravio / Wojen can sue everyone for slander. If that doesn't happen (because truth is the absolute defense) then your common sense should kick in and say "despite how nice the building, there is a LOT of smoke and maybe I should look elsewhere because I'm not going to get what looks pretty good."

Perhaps with regard to charging someone formally with a crime we need to keep that in mind. With regard to civil stuff...I laughed my head off when I saw Johnny Depp explain all this in Pirates in the Carribean when he tells the young man that "there are things a man can and cannot do." That's it. Keep it in mind.

Unfortunately the amount in controversy is too small in total. It takes tens of thousands of dollars just to begin to make this worthwhile and usually in the hundreds. Unfortunately, the Internet promotes small time thiefs who prey on the relatively innocent optimists because of how difficult it is to find someone and take them to court AND then to enforce a judgment (it's not just handed to you after a court decision.) They rely on the fact that it's so tough and that 99.9% of the time they can get away with it. Then you screw the wrong person....

Hmm this is really sad. Not sad because I feel pity for Ravio, but because I truely like the designs of most ravio-made forums (hostingdiscussion.com, WHT, yaxay). To be honest, I would still consider having a custom design made by Ravio, but of course after reading the various warning threads, I would make precautions (like have an agreement by Ravio to finish his work etc).

Or, if someone could point me to another designer (since I am *** in design) with equal capabilities, I'd be very happy as well!

Alex

[no self advertising please]

the first thing anyone should do before contracting work with someone should be to verify their business credentials

If this is the case, you can check if the company is a legit company by going into their states' website (business section) and verify that the company is registered with the state.

If the business is not registered than you are taking a LARGE risk.

read the thread the guy already said hes been through the professional approach all he is doing is warning us
Simple as :tired:

Ahhh.... a contract is only as good as the person signing it. What you want is for delivery prior to payment and that is simply not gonna happen with Ravio. You pay at your own risk and he may or may not take advantage of the lure of his talent... but if you lose, don't say you weren't forewarned...

First time I've seen this thread, but I'm not surprised by any of it! I'd say that 1 in 3 of my clients at present are Corey victims, I've heard some astonishing stories. I can't believe how much this kid has managed to get away with. :(

Yaxay as a warning in the topic somethink about iNET payed for a custom design and never got it as you know iNET owns yaXay and wht and so many more

Ravio as gone bad check out they site all it has is a -

he will have a bad name for how long he use's his name ravio now

After reading threads in various other boards, I agree it would be fatuous to do business with Ravio again.

Which IS sad! I have checked with numerous other custom designers (style3, insidethepixel, designdevise), but none fit my taste as well as Ravio did. A pity :(

He certainly screwed up big time with me personally as well.

I can't go into further details while I'm investigating legal action with my legal team.

Same here...we too were a Corey (Ravio) victim :(

I used his services for a couple of years...and during that time he would just disappear for what seemed like months...each time, new excuses....and like a knucklehead, I took him back time after time....Then in Aug 03, never heard from him since...We spent allot of moola with him...(thousands)...but that?s all water under the bridge now...Live and learn I guess... :(

I agree with dFrisk as all the signs do indeed point to substance abuse...get some moola and out on a binge .. probably in some crack house. Although I personally will never use his services again, I hope he does seek the help that he seems so desperately to need. Wish him the best...

For those that are seeking help, keep hunting and don't settle...there are plenty of qualified developers out there...some that have expertise in graphical design, others in php/mysql and VB...some with both skill sets (ideal). Keep looking, ask questions and get recommendations from others...They are out there!

The good news is a new developer is now on our team since December, John from Eovie....Great to be moving forward once again without the headaches that Corey caused us.

I agree that sunstance abuse or Bing Cocaine use might be apparent. I get alot of people that have me fix his skins that are ridden with errors and I hated seeing people I knew that were ripped off. I personally have never met him, so I couldn't guess to many details, but I don't like the fact that people that put faith into people get ripped off. I am a professional designer and own a firm with many great designers and coders that are part of our group.

We went (and almost was successful) in taking vbskins from him and putting it to better use without the drama. I hope he does get his life together, but I think he has pretty much screwed the pooch on that one.

I finally decided after much debate a few months ago that I will be releasing a group of 4 skins to start with in the very near future. Its not even because we at the firm hurt for money, but the fact that there must be a better alternative for low cash users that can't afford a full custom skin from us at around $4000.00. But more importantly, karma and good business is the forefront of any successful venture.

Always deal with contracts that protect both the client and the designer and always insist on a contract if the amount is over $250.00 and require a 50% deposit to seal the deal... I hope if it is drug abiuse that somebody that gives a crap about him, would do a damn intervention.

I feel y'alls pain, it make us decent and karma concious designers get a bad rep. I know that there are mnay talented designers here, from designdevice to a few more.

midnightz

PS - Alien - I will be emailing you in a couple of days to get that thing together we talked about...

Peace all

Wow $4000... that's a lot :)

Drug abuse - where did you get that idea from? I just think he's got big too quick and couldn't cope.

Its from a few posts up in a middle paragraph, and the pattern does make sense, but so does taking on too much he can handle and not being a good business person to block time correctly.

I can see both scenarios, together or seperate working in that matter. Its from seeing it before. I just hope he gets his stuff together regardless. Even if he never designs a skin again, he still owes it to the his clients that are in the middle of this drama, a full refund! He could have hired subcontractor designers and or coders to help him, if overwhelmed and still made a great profit.

The world will never truly know :(

Looks like there's activity over at www.ravio.com.

He's put a bunch of links on his front page, so he'll earn money through affiliated license purchases.

:rolleyes:

That's been there for weeks amigo ;)

Apologies, I don't check the Ravio site on a daily basis.

Last time I saw it (about a month ago), there was just a dot.

Maybe this thread should be closed now? It's really getting no where and it only serves to give negative criticism, whether it's true or false the outcome is pointless.

lol, I was waiting for somebody to say it. ;)

There are a lot of other threads in the same category. No point in closing them all.

I agree. I hate closing threads when discussion is taking place, but most of this has already been discussed and again. The 'warning' is in place for members to beware, thread has served it's purpose.

If any positive information is related to this thread perhaps it can be reopened at a later date.