you are so right. me to i feel the same. that's why i dont post there.

@xiphoid: if you mean me (it's behind my post), then one of my sentense is wrong

I do agree on that one, although I usually get responses from the members, the vB guys never respond to PM's (I asked one of them about the new rules last week, and if something I posted would violate them. -I never recieved a response -as if it's so hard to click reply to PM, type "Yes, please don't post that on vbulletin.com" and click send. I guess they just don't have time for the folks that keep them paid.)

They have to much to do to get 2.2.x secure this time?
They have to much to do with 3.0 this time?

I don't know.

PS: should I better keep out of this thread? Newbee & no english?

Edit:
I had an agreement with my English teacher at the school time: You let to me in rest I let you in rest. Today I regret it.
I do not know whether I nerve you.
PS: This is a program duch translates.

Next edit (last: on 04-13-02 at 05:27 PM):
Slowly I come here to myself too before as air. But that is certain only at my English. I do not give up, only so I can learn English and do simultaneously good.

This section is also about a program translated.

manual: Hope the programm do it perfect.

I've asked to have my username at vb.com changed (to match the one here), I never got a response. Bumped it once, still no response, so I gave up.
IMO, the development team and the forum moderation team should be seperate. So the one activity doesn't interfere with the performance/quality of the other.

I thought thats already like this.

Ehm harvey, thats a funny problem. i have the same one.
hmm.. ich schreib dir noch ne pn.

I just changed your username at vb.com for you.

Thank you sir!

I agree with you Freddie... vb.org is different... when i first signed up and bought my vb i thought it'd be quite the experience... but i seem to have been mistaken... don't see very much help and i don't know what kind of help i would recieve it i asked questions... props to PPN for showing both respectability and reliablity... yeah i don't see many mods around much... mostly just PPN who's done a great job... i've seen some of your comments around Freddie and i think you're correct... this community needs to make a turn around... i've seen alot of criticizing and what not as well... the way PPN once stated... "if the hack is useful and its what you want thats what matters"... sure quantity != quality... but sometimes such a simple hack can be very useful... as i've seen many around...

gforce2001

Hi all. I'm not sure it's necessarily fair to indict a community for not helping when you haven't yet asked for help. (Sorry if that makes no sense!) I recently delurked after spending months in the shadows, too shy to post. My very first post was a hack request, and only a couple of hours later, Logician replied with some questions asking me to clarify myself a little better.

By the end of 24 hours, s/he'd provided me with no less than three attempts to get the hack working properly, and the last one was perfection. S/he even offered me an alternative just in case what I was asking for wasn't possible. All this for a hack that no one else has requested, so it may not be all that useful to anyone but me! I'm incredibly grateful and humbled by getting such quick, thorough help.

Maybe I was just extremely lucky by having Logician be the first one to find me. (Obviously s/he truly enjoys hacking and helping. :)) Or maybe it's the way I posted -- I was honest with my lack of experience, and tried to be as polite and undemanding as someone requesting free help should be. That doesn't seem to always be the case. (Some requesters are pretty rude in response to the hacks people provide them -- a service y'all are getting provided to you for free, people! Jeez!)

All in all, I think the vBulletin.org experience is what we make of it. If one comes off like a demanding idiot, it's unlikely that others are gonna be inspired to offer much help.

Sorry for the length. And thanks again to the supportive people who make vB so helpful!

I agree with that fully, well said. When I first signed up here, I am pretty sure one of my first posts was requesting a hack also, only a few of my posts have not been answered and I really don't have a problem with it as I realize that people have lives to. MOst people don't sit at their computer 24/7 and develop hacks (while some do :)).

I can not really pin-point one hacker or person that has helped me out more than the other - bascially everything is equal in my line of sight.

As said above, vBulletin.org is what you make of it, if you come off as a rude and hateful person, no one is going to want to help you, more over flame you. If you are respectful of others, you are more likely to get the help you need. Sometimes you will not get help, but that is life, you will not get everything you want.

- SaintDog

Ok, I haven't read this entire post even though I probably should have, but my thought on selling hacks: I find that, like others have said, is just 'kids' trying to make a quick buck. I do this because I find it exciting, and I hope others feel the same way.

I get a little gleeful burst of happiness when people reply to my hack(s) and offer their appreciation. Seriously -- it gives me a lot of joy to know that I'm helping people make their forums better.

Hell, there's not enough money to be made in providing general hacks for a fee. You drive off too many people with the prospect of paying extra for a little added feature. I can understand someone who invests their time and energy into a custom project -- at someone's request -- and asks for compensation.

But I also think it's repulsive when someone posts a request and the immediate response is "I'll do it for $30". MORE IRRITATING is when someone posts that they're working on a hack, and the Gimme-Gimmes come slithering out of the woodwork to demand its release with their cries of "Why isn't it done?" and "You suck."

I myself just mostly come here and download the great hacks you people make. I dont associate unless necessary because there is a little stinch in the air. I just came from looking at the Shoutbox thread and there are bits and pieces of that hack everywhere. The first post doesn't say whether its been updated. Can't we all just get along? LOL .. I've learned since coming here to read everypost in every thread pertaining to hacks. I see a lot of questions asked 2 or 3 times one right after the other. Maybe a set of rules that newcomers should read with instructions:

If the same question is posted by someone else already do not post the question again.

Please read the entire thread before posting any questions or comments.


That Shoutbox thread is a mess though! It would be nice if the first post of every thread could be updated with the current working version when fixes are made. Figuring out what files to download can be a chore in itself. To all you hackers though, you are appreciated by the majority of us.:)

Using my position to make money from something that is free? Well what "position" you are refering to I have no idea. It's ok to put tons of hours into a design and sell it, but once that design "can" be used for vBulletin it should now be "Free"? I released a Christmas style for free for everyone to use, and that was my contribution. I also posted template modifying tips etc. I sell one Style and all of a sudden your portarying me as someone who only does it for the money? I take these comments quite personally. Maybe take a look at all the things I've done for the community, rather than just that 1 xbox style I sold. How many button sets to do I have avaiable for people to download? Do you know how many hours I put into those button sets so people can use? A lot more than you'd think.

I agree with you there Sinecure, I can't say that I have seen you advertising anything on these forums other than stuff that is free. I am also fed up of everyone expecting to get everything for free, why should people like Sinecure and c-pr0mpt work for hours creating styles, buttons and graphics for everyone else to use.

I agree 100% with Freddie. This site is completely out of hand. I think the underlying problem here, is the fact that there are gobs of 14-15yr olds with growing egos on a quest to showcase. Take afterlab for example... That kid is continuously dangling his "innovations" in front of everyone's face. Newbies are met with a shrug-off attitude, and this seems to be more a source of competitive resource, than helpful resource.

On the commercial side.. I think the idea of selling hacks is ridiculous, and that's not what a "community" is all about. You could say "I'm supposed to put hours and hours into something to give it away for free?" No, you're not.. the simple solution is, don't make it in the first place, you greedy jerk.. but don't come showcasing your crap, and dangling it in the eyes of others either. Speaking as a professional developer, I can say that most of the hacks found on here aren't anywhere near the level of being labeled "commercial worthy." These kids need to learn proper usage of queries, and explore table joins versus queries in while loops. I've seen some of these hacks in action, and there's no excuse in the world for 1+sec exec times, with 60+ queries.

i think you exagerate here... in every apple tree is gotta be a bad apple... that's how is life. we are talking about almost 17,000 members at vB.org.
you will not get help from alot of people because not alot of people know well php. take a look at me. i'm a novice in php but still try to help as much as i can.
since dec 2001, i didnt see alot people laughing at newbies... only few and there is no need to name them. pointing fingers at people here will not make you feel better, but exacly the opposite. you never know when it comes that day when that 'named' person will help you and you will feel bad for judging him fast.

I think it is you who is missing the point.
What ever vB.org may have been in the past, it sure as hell is not like that now. Now all I see are 14 year old kiddies who run around posting about the so called modifications they have made while making empty promises to release them as a ploy to generate traffic to his or her site. Most noticeably are the kids who own Final Fantasy sites. God as if we didn't have enough of them already. They latch onto an idea, make it and then go around telling others they will give it away at "some point" but to go to the site and see it working anyway. They need these types of cyber crutches in order to stand above the rest, and get mad as sin when someone else does similar.

I say so called "hacks" because adding to vB is not hacking my any means.
Looking around at all these lame "hacks" has taught me that it requires next to no skill. All one has to do is add about 80 new profile fields and then BLAMO, instant "hack." vB is slow / cumbersome as it is, and they go and turn it into a 230 query, 2.000 second loading monstrosity that will surely upset the hosting provider if kept up. Not surprising seeing as how most of them cant even spell, let alone code proper syntax. Bottom line, if you are here to promote your crap FF site with your proposed "hack" then stay the hell away and don't complain when people become frustrated with your empty promise.

i'm not trying to be rude but those 14years old kids are clients after all. most of them paid $160 for support. so what if they release poor hacks? the people who know about coding will always have a word to say... and point out the errors.
look at me, i'm really glad that firefly is reading all my posts and looks into my hacks. how many time he didnt find errors? many times... and he told me also how to correct them.

i read an adversity onto your post and i dont know where is comming from all this anger. if you are a better then those 14years old kids, start by talking decent here. if not hard to be polite in a public place and it brings you only good in life...

btw, i'm 33years old, if that makes any difference to you and i dont have a FF site.

Essay on Making Hacks

When I first opened my message board, it was with UBB (this was in May 2000; I don't know if vBulletin was even around then). On Infopop's site, I read about the hacks that were available, and downloaded them, and installed them. I knew nothing at all about programming, but the hacks came with instructions that said exactly what to do. By knowing what the feature was that I was adding (the purpose of the hack), and by looking over the code that I was adding and replacing, I came to have a very basic understanding of how it all worked. I came up with some of my own ideas about new features or modifications, and realized that for much of what I wanted to do, I could find examples of similar things already in the code. Since I had already learned the basic idea of how it all worked, I was able to find the bit of code that worked the feature that was similar to what I wanted to do. By trial and error, I was able to learn more about the programming language, and was able to do bigger and better things.

I don't believe I ever created any of my own hacks for UBB. I modified some of the existing features and modified some other hacks. But I didn't get more into making my own hacks until after switching to vBulletin. With the new language of the program itself, as well as the separate and different language of the database system, I had to begin anew. But again, as I installed others' vB hacks, I came to have a basic understanding of the new system, and I was once more learning my own tricks.

My hacks, at first, were fairly simple, just doing basic things. As I created each one, and installed more and more from other fellow hackers, I learned more and more, and was able to do bigger, more complicated things. And I've never studied programming or taken any classes. I did buy a basic book on PHP, but to be honest, I never looked in it much. Aside from vBulletin itself, my greatest asset has probably been the PHP website (www.php.net), to use as a function and syntax reference. But, as I just indicated, my biggest resources in learning this has been vBulletin itself. I believe that anybody can install some of the hacks from other people here and use that experience to see how vB works. All you have to do is pay attention to what it is you're doing. Don't just blindly follow the directions; open your eyes and learn. Then, don't be afraid to try things yourself. Everything I learned I learned by trial and error. I learned how to install Windows after accidentally formatting my parents' hard drive. :) (So make backups first!)

So, don't be afraid to try things for yourself, and don't be afraid to ask for help.

Wrong again.
Those rude 14 year olds are not the clients. It is there parents who have to shell out the money. If you think differently then tell me where it is legal for a boy or girl to actually work an honest job making money, and have the time to buy a bulletin board and still manage to find time to make "hacks" to flaunt around.

I actually have no anger.
No, not at all. Just a world of pity. Once a tall pillar to define what a hacking community should be throughout the net... has been tarnished by all these mucus sniffing, bugger eating rug rats looking to generate a quick plug.

Powered by: vBulletin version 2.2.6, copyright ?2000 - 2002, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
This site is copyright ?2001 - 2002, vBulletin.org. All hacks are copyright their respective owners.
All smilies are copyright ?2002, Dark Project Studios. Logo created by nakkid. All graphics created by Sinecure.
Page generated in 1.06544399 seconds (7.92% PHP - 92.08% MySQL) with 24 queries.


I wonder how much longer till this whole board caves in.
[edit]
And this was JUST on this page with ONLY 2 replies
:confused:

It's not legal for anyone under the age of 18 (in the USA) to own property, job or no job; property belongs to the parents.

Aside from that technicality, it's perfectly possible for a 14-yr. old to be a paying client. I had $160 to my own name when I was 14; I had a lot more than $160, actually. Most of it was inherited. I wasn't actually allowed by my parents to use that money, but someone else easily could have. It's also possible for 14-yr. old kids to get paying jobs; they are allowed to take some jobs. Then there are the "off the records" jobs that kids of all ages get, like mowing lawns and babysitting and stuff like that. Oh, and I can't believe I almost forgot the biggie: Allowance! I'm not getting myself involved in that part of the argument, I'm just pointing out that it's quite easy for lots of kids, of all ages, to have $160. Oh, and I think a lot of kids are quite good at programming. Shoot, I was taking computer classes after school in the first grade, way back in 1980 (Commodor 64); they weren't programming classes, but I'm sure they had them, too. I'm sure there are lots of 14-yr. old kids that are pretty good programmers. I'm sure there are even some that could write code circles around any of us here. They may not be here, but I'm sure they exist.

Excellent argument, touche.

Take the time to do a little research and find out an un-hacked vBulletin generates 24 queries on showthread as well, and that is without the tons of improvements we have here.
I also don't know where you got the 1+ second statistic from, in the last 20 times I refreshed the page it only took around 0.51900399 seconds.

It's very easy to criticize others and do nothing about it. I've seen you do nothing on this board other than putting down others.
Surely some people don't act nice, you will find this anywhere you go in life. But what you do is generalizing almost 17,000 members on this board, placing them under that category, which is wrong.

This is thread is older than me and most of the things that were said here are not relevant anymore.

If you don't like one's hack, don't install. No one is forcing you. If you think you can do it better, do it. You talk so much, you must be one hell of a coder, huh! :rolleyes:

As a matter of fact,
(we) are. Trivaya and I are better known as Ace and Sara on OpenBB. Plans have already started on a follow up flag ship that will have faster loading times than the current Obb, and still retain all of the functionality of most modern bulletin boards to date. Load times on this new project are sub .01 with a simulated 1000 member sessions.

You would be shocked to know what proper coding can achieve, pal.

*Smirk*

OpenBB trolls. LOL, what will we see next?

The loading times will also depend on a few other factors that you forgot to mention. Like the server setup, maybe, for one? :)

Also, good coders usually don't have to announce themseleves, unless they are trying to prove something to someone for some reason. :) *Smirk* back at ya. :)

It's so easy to say something like, "You would be shocked to know what proper coding can achieve, pal." Anyone can say something can be done better; few can actually show how to do it better. I suspect you're in the former category, not the latter. But prove me wrong. Why not give a few examples as to how the vBulletin code can be improved? I would suspect because you can't. I'm sure you would say that you don't have time to waste on proving yourself. People who can't put up always say things like that. I am not impressed by your smirk and your smug attitude. I'm sure you'll also say that you could not care less about me being impressed. But I think you do care about impressing people; that's why you came here, to make your bold claims and snide remarks: to impress people. Well, I'll be impressed by proof and results. I, for one, say it's time to put up, or get the hell out.

That should be "put up or shut up", but "get the hell out" actually says it more clearly. :) Good one, JJR512. :)

Well with a speech like that I just had to try your ultimate software, right?

Cute errors, love that. Someone forgot to set error_reporting()...?

Apparently you require register_globals to be turned On, which is a pointless requirement since you can emulate register_globals On (being an extraordinary programmer I'm sure you've heard of extract()). However, users that have it turned Off will never be able to see that requirement since they can't get to step 2, pal.

How come this wonderful script didn't create the database itself, even though I gave it the root user information? Very user friendly indeed.

Ohh, what's this?
Nice, built-in methods to nuke my site! Or to email you my admin details!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say 24 queries on showthread was quite a lot?
Of course I'm not as gifted as you must be, but counting the lines I see 33 queries. And that is with only one post! Geez, I wonder how much longer till this whole board caves in!

Not to mention I see some double queries in there, specifically:
Thank you for this great enlightenment, I am truly shocked to see what proper coding can achieve.

Now, Chen, have we learned something from this? :) With the help of these fine people, you are on your way to being the crack programmer they are. Aren't you blessed?! :)

My God I have to switch to OBB right away, I know its dynamic code are going to prove to be much better than VB3.

And don't forget those excellent coders that have taught us all so much with their superb software. Isn't life grand? :)

Oh look, they also ripped two of nakkid's tutorials.
http://forums.prolixmedia.com/read.php?TID=1111
http://forums.prolixmedia.com/read.php?TID=1113
What a great group indeed.

Gee, after all this, I decided to look up this OBB and see what it was like.

http://www.prolixmedia.com/

Funny thing! When I got there, the newest member was "vBulletin", who is already correcting some of the misstatements made by Ace! :D

FireFly, I just read your post, and my.. that was hilarious:D

I signed up a few hours ago, and the email came about an hour later.

Well, first off... OpenBB should not have been mentioned in this thread.. This was honest criticism and agreement with Freddie's point that many hackers do not take pride in their hacks, from two developers.
You will get similar erros running vB in E_ALL
Emulate being the key word there. I can think of 5 different ways that range from extract to the infamous foreach() tricks.. All any of them do is circumvent the security of register_globals... Using your logic, why even bother having register_globals? Shouldn't even be an option, the hell with security, just leave it on. Don't get me wrong, Chen... as I said on our own forums in reply to your post, OpenBB has the same issue as vB does (and then some) - however, I believe in user awareness, and I'm not going to mislead people into thinking they have security they don't. So, if they don't have register_globals, they don't use it.. period. I'm obviously not on a quest to financial success.. and I'd rather send a few people away until the new version is released, which is done the proper way, than "emulate" a false sense of security.
lol you're *really* reaching now. ;) very few users have mysql root access, and 80+% do everything via a control panel... furthermore, last I knew, vB didn't even generate the sql details file for you, you had to edit it yourself, before proceeding with the installation.

I will be the first to admit OpenBB needs a lot of work... Through a year of various coders in the mix, a complete release of the development team.. it's not exactly where it should be... which is why a new product is being developed from scratch, using the latest technologies. I personally never claimed OpenBB was superior to vBulletin as a whole... but there are definite faults, just as you pointed out in OpenBB (though, I would like to point out, openbb doesn't cost $160(?) either) There are somewhere around 6(?) queries on the index alone to generate statistics (on-the-fly, might I add)... Storing statistics in a seperate table is far more efficient than generating them on the fly, and could cut the index of vB down by half. Don't get me wrong, vB was very innovative, and back in the day (yes I was, and technically still am a vB license holder.. before my obb days), from a coding standpoint, it was the hottest thing since sliced bread. Those days have long passed (as they have for obb as well)... the coding is outdated, slow, lacks efficiency, and doesn't make use of the latest technology. That's what vB3 is for... and I hope it's everything it claims to be, because we ALL have a lot of catching up to do imo.

Anyways, this has turned into a vB vs. OpenBB debate, and the issue at hand here was the hacking community. Given the number of users you have here, I think you're doing a good job... but I still take issue, if not as a vB licenseholder, then as an advocate of the idea of "community support".. I take issue with people like afterlab who come around to showboat their "creations", generate traffic to their own sites, and play "dangle the candy in front of the kids." It's unnecessary, and if memory serves, there's a section of this forum dedicated to just that thing... it's a shame that showoffs feel the need to get an ego boost at other's expense. The question of skill was brought in when commercialization of hacks was discussed. As I said, I too was a vB user, and I've seen the hacks produced.. and I will maintain that 80% are not worthy of being sold. That's not only because of skill, but if you look at some of these hacks, you know people can do better... as freddie said, it's an issue of pride. People already paid more than they should for vB itself, the whole point of a hacks "community" is to provide others with resources. 'Hackers' shouldn't be creating hacks with the intent to profit, at least not publicly. No, people shouldn't "waste their time" for free, but if one thinks of it like that, they really shouldn't be here anyways.

At any rate, that's my .02, and I apologize this turned into something it shouldn't have.

Regards.

Edit: As for the "ripping" - there is no stolen code, and I believe you're referring to the tutorial? If that's the case, I was not aware it was from vB, and it has been removed. I suggest such issues be taken up with Anthony.

trivaya, you forget about my tutorials rip????????
who gives you the right to label them as yours????
do you have any idea how much time i spend to test everything and put it toghether?
no, you dont. you didnt even bothered to change the graphs and the sentences a little...