Not sure if you guys are talking about TAZ, or vB5.
I think if IB will listen to their customers (or fans) then they could have the best forum software again.
XF > vB 4 > vB 3 > vB5 at the moment :D

They have actively ignored their customers for over five years now. From those who coded the abundance of free vB3 and vB4 addons, hardly anyone is left. And that's not just because there's no plugin system anymore. Look at xF: They have no plugin system, the learning curve is pretty similar to vB5, and yet there's plenty of addons being coded. It's just that hardly anyone that witnessed the vB4 and vB5 release desasters still thinks that IB has a clue what they're doing and that coding for software in the state of vB5 is worthwhile. Most addons here came from people who used vB themselves, coded what they needed and wanted themselves, then shared with the community. IB suceeded in practically destroying this, and those with enough coding skill to make good addons quickly saw that they never would "upgrade" to something like vB5.

I agree.

That's not actually correct Mark.

They were removed - I was given the task of removing them after we completed 4.2.0.

In many cases, yes.

The large number of vb3/vb4 mods were written by people who created them for themselves first, then released them here - a prime example being myself. All the mods I wrote and released here were things I created for myself in vB3. Allthough I did also port them all to vB4 as well, even though I dont have a vB4 forum.

I'm still baffled as to why it was removed Paul it just baffles me... to have vBulletin, to have a pre-sales area on here even where people ask about mods before purchase - all the times we've steered them in a direction or told them it could be done, mods and methods that made them want to purchase and now that has simply been removed? Remove the system remove an increase in sales through modding. Why is it I see more migrating from the Cloud everyday saying it could not give them what they wanted (customization) so that is a clue if anything.

I just don't see the logic in it, so they paid you to remove what brought them more sales it just does not compute and I'm a fanboy, on the vBulletin bandwagon even but I still can't see it, I hate to say it.

There are both disappointed customers and vicious haters. I'm not blaming the customers but it is almost a full time job watching for lies being posted from the haters- two wrongs do not make a right- they seem to think it does.

Log into your Member's Area at https://members.vbulletin.com and add your vBulletin.org email address to the Priority Forum Support list- check what you have listed there- and double check your vbulletin.com account email matches exactly. If you still have trouble open a support ticket.

Certainly in the forums and tickets when people inquired about VB5 I (and most other staff I could see) would warn people VB5 was a very big change from VB4, the biggest change from any version of VB before, and we suggested they try the demo first before deciding to upgrade their forums. I still suggest this to people inquiring about VB5.

A more modern, more social forum experience.

Plugins have a downside... They make overall system less safe- with a plugin system if someone gets Admin access to the forum they more or less have access to the whole hosting account as they can create a plugin to give them disk access. With the VB5 extension system a hacked Admin account would not give disk access.

Also plugins only really work for the desktop version. With ForumRunner, Tapatalk, and the VB Mobile Suite plugins cause problems- some are active, some are not- some will cause errors on this mobile platforms.

The idea of doing everything via extensions is a clean one and one that would prevent such problems introduced by plugins- but what we got was a system simply not capable of allowing all the mods we were used to.

If they could redo the extensions system in some way that allowed total control I'd be for it, but realistically a plugin system would be easier to implement.

Agreed - but keep one thing in mind.. Most of those 'haters' started as disappointed customers.

Its my belief that the majority of mod creators didn't leave because of the lack of a plugin system. That may have contributed, but I don't think that was the primary reason.

Things have happened incrementally over time. IB taking over, releasing vb4 too early, losing Mike & Kier, XF launched, The lawsuit, vb4 plans being discarded, vb5 being released way too early, cutbacks on staff..

All of these things cost more and more customers as time went on many of whom migrated to XF or IPB. And its those customers that created mods and used mods.

Its ironic. One of the reasons IB bought vBulletin was so they could control the software their owned sites operate on, yet none of them have upgraded to vb5 my knowledge. Almost all run on vb 3x.

IMO, its a terrible shame, and how top management that controls vB still works for the company is amazing to me. Personally, I think vB can still be saved, but it seems nobody that makes decisions wants to hear it. They seem to be in some kind of denial that things are as bad as they are.

I think the access issue could be easily resolved by not running the code from within the ACP but make it so you need something like this:

Well I've fixed quite a few hacked forums in my time and truth be told if I think back and honestly think hard... yup it was more often vulnerabilities in vBulletin itself then it was a plugin vulnerability. I just don't think saying you're safer without them is the best thing to do or way to think... of course you're safe on a 100% default board without any customizations UNTIL an exploit is found within vBulletin itself then it's another patch release.

If you google "Powered by vBulletin" I'm pretty sure if you spent a few hours (anyone for that matter) and actually clicked on the links you would find waaaaaaay more customized sites than default... if I can build a business based entirely on vBulletin customization and make enough money to support a wife, three kids, a new car and a house payment then I dare say YES they're required (since that many people are evidently looking to customize it beyond the default appearance and functionality) and the ability to further customize vBulletin should always be there, removing that system was a mistake - someone should address this issue with management repeatedly until they finally open their eyes imo, pass it up the chain of command but do it with some gusto ;).

If that was the reason then they never really did this.

All the large divisions within IB that run vBulletin have their own full time developers, and pretty much run their own heavily modified version(s). They dont really have any contact with VBS and I dont see that it would make much difference to them who actually owned vB itself.

^ Now that Paul mentions it, if you all recall a majority of the IB sites at the time they purchased vBulletin (the larger boards) were running and still run vBulletin 3 instead of 4 or 5.

Lol so much for worrying about the plugin system, https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthread.php?t=313021

Security issues happen, regardless of who codes what.

The plugin system is a legit nightmare when someone figures out how to take advantage of it.

I've actually started visiting TAZ again since they updated their forum software. I think they made the right choice. ;)

I doubt anyone left TAZ because it ran on vB3.

I 100% agree and it's something the costumers have been saying for years now.
I never said they did.. But it's a lot more welcoming and actually pleasant to use since they upgraded.

With vb 5 it seems like security issues are occurring at an alarming rate.

Whereas xenforo on the other hand, has never had a security issue during all its years of existance. That speaks volumes.

Well its "years of existance" have not been that many yet.

People used to say exactly the same about Linux v Windows.
As it grows and becomes widely knowm, its only a matter of time before the hackers start to target it.

It will... With certainty. Its just a matter of time. As Paul said. Look at apple. Macs used to have the reputation of being virus proof, when it was just that hackers preferred to hit windows based machines as they are 95% of the market. Its nothing against Xenforo, its just the nature of things.

Wrong as a matter of fact, I reported when using XenForo (search XenForo for the thread their, if they have not deleted it since) that I created. How two files got code injected in them (same hacking code listed on paste bin searching google on it) because XenForo after installing made config and another file 777 chmod permission, which lead to the hacking. I didn't change chmod to 777, XenForo did it after install, only forum software I've used that makes files 777 chmod after installing it.

So your assumption that no site using XenForo has ever been hacked, well is wrong. And that's the first and only time I've ever had a forum run (or any site run) hacked. It may not be an exploit in the forum software itself, but the installer sure left my forum wide open because of that silly 777 chmod forced on some files used by it.

Not sure I agree, after they converted from vB3 to XF it's been quite noticeable a lot more XF users have started to post their that didn't before, even become pretty vocal posters. Most topics posted about XF get deleted or censored to death (posts deleted) in defence of XenForo. While it seems bashing of all other forum software gets a much easier ride with less moderation. Seen the latest topic bashing Burning Board posted on TAZ... you'll get my meaning, and funny how that topic has been allowed to run like it has (because XenForo got brought into it, saying BB4 is a clone of it). However, go start a thread bashing XenForo and see what happens to it, how quick they are to start deleting posts in it, along with banning you from the thread itself from posting further in it.

Don't mind the fact people may be disappointed in vBulletin and air it their on TAZ. But when a site takes sides on forum software like TAZ does, then that's different if they can't accept it being done with them all.

Aha...Gary....I thought we'd meet again, somewhere, sooner or later. :)

If anyone else has any threads they need killing off, drop me a PM....I'll post to the thread, and I guarantee nobody will ever reply to it again. :)

Thread assassin!

Yup, that's me.

3 years is quite a lot of time. But what is happening with vb 5 btw?

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...-through-5-1-2

Please dont post exagerations here. Two together does not equal a "weekly basis".
If you are going to post the usual nosense then feel free to do so to TAZ, or any of the other places that the trolls hang out.

This man does it right at least... the rest of you always forget the smilies... kill them with kindnes... err I mean SMILIES!

:D

Paul, I am not posting nonsense nor am I exaggerating anything. I am merely stating facts. vB 5 released 2 security patches the last 2 weeks 6 days apart. If that does not classify a weekly basis then I don''t know what does.

A weekly basis suggests every single week of the year.

As always, vBulletin takes security seriously and if a patch is deemed to be required, one is released, six days apart or not. I applaud this.

However if only a one-time or even lets say for example it happened twice it's still rare and therefor does not constitute a "weekly basis" as that would be ongoing as that's what "weekly basis" relates to in meaning respectively.

Clearly you dont.

A weekly basis means something happens [once] every week.

Anyone who considers XF an upgrade from VB3 needs to see a psycologist.

As it turns out, they appear to be having problems with custom code they had with VB3 and getting it to work with XF. They are also having to implement things that Howard said they never would in order to attract and keep posters, since changing to XF, after the initial surge the daily post count has dropped significantly, partly due to posters not liking the change, and partly due to every thread digressing into bashing VB and IB.

Which is the case for the last 3 weeks.

This week 's.

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...-connect-5-1-2

Something such ridiculous I have seen only with vB. Not even the free scripts have had this kind of issue with security.

Ohh good grief, call Jessie Ventura, it's a conspiracy. :D:p

Patch friday....:p

Was it the case for the previous three weeks ?

Will it be the case for the next three weeks ? (I certainly hope not).

If an issue is found, its fixed and patched. Sorry you don't seem to like that.

The attachment issue is obscure at best, Its unlikely anyone would have noticed it unless they went hunting for attachment ids, but however small, it is still a potential issue, so was fixed.

I dont suppose they have the same kind of issue vB has with endless trolling either, lucky them.

Every major software vendor has security issues, how they react to them is important. When we find an issue or it gets reported to us we verify it and get it out the door ASAP.

All Major forum software has had issues, as long as humans are programing programings there will be issues. Sometimes its because of the language, sometimes its human error. But if you think other scripts are free from errors you're mistaken.

I'd far rather my software vendor was upfront about issues of this nature, rather than hiding, denying, saying nothing, until they have no choice (assuming they admit it at all).

There are many examples of the latter. the software I used prior to vBulletin was notorious for it. Defunct now, thankfully.

I completely agree that the majority of forum softwares have had security issues, except xenforo btw. As there has been none with it till now.

However, the thing is that none of them has had the security issues with the frequency of vb 5. One each week for the past 3 weeks. This is what I was talking about, and not why it has had security issues, but the alarming rate of them.