This reminds me of the statement my highschool poli-sci teacher used to say all the time: If you are of voting age and you fail to take part in the voting process - shut up! You have no right to complain about the political brouhaha of the day.

Not that I'm telling you to shut up mind you... But I do find it interesting that you as one of the most vocal, anti-xf naysayers (here at the .org anyway) are not even an XF customer. I personally think it should be left to those who have a vested (invested?) interest in a given software...These folks have the right to complain. Others are just blowing smoke and have no right to. They are obstructionist.

For instance - I as a vBulletin license holder should feel free to voice my distaste as regards the current state of vBulletin. I've invested in a product. Same thing with XF - I've invested.

Have no vested interest: No right to voice dissension?

J.

So ya, back to VB discussion : )

Has it ever been discussed before about implementing features like twitter ? Like the Feeds feature ? Have VB dev team thought about it or discussed it before ?

The same applies to vB as well, if you have time check out the old threads at Licensed Customer Feedback section, now the section is almost dead. Many threads were locked down and a few members were banned for bashing. So it happens at all the forums. Some threads were locked down for no reasons too.

NO BIG DEAL FOR ME.

Right for bashing, you said it, and probably for ignoring staff warnings. But you will never see on vb.com a staff going out of his or her way to bully a member and later restrict his or her account by altering the account permission making this user not able to create a reply or a topic without moderation, not able to pm his/her friends and not able to post comments on their friend's profile.

I think we are over the XF drama, it is done, gone. Lets focus on Vbulletin. This site is called Vbulletin.org not Xenforo.

Feel free to open a topic on their forum and enjoy any sort of bashing, there will definitely be so many supporters there.

Not all the time. Some times even vb staffs are rude at vb.com.

May be that's because your put in to some sort of moderation, i don't represent Xenforo. So can't really comment about them.

So back on topic.

I really like vB, especially the 3.x series even the 4.x gets the job done. But i don't like the directions taken by the IB.

I like VB 4.x and have great addons on it not to mention its default features.

http://forum.nihonomaru.com/member/r...1/?styleid=149
http://forum.nihonomaru.com/member/r...1/?styleid=164

Why would i ever leave this that thousand of my members enjoy ^ and migrate to XF that lacks in default features and much more, I think those who are disappointed with VB 5.x did that but they forgot that VB 4.x is there until VB 5.x shapes up better later and it will i think. People assume the future and that is where mistakes are being made.

But as for VB 5.x i am really looking at the seeing the next generation forum with social features and new features that looks appealing. I want to see innovation and new ideas being introduced beyond the forum features we are familiar with.

Design is back bone of innovation, if we cannot present our innovation in a better way no one is going to even take a look at it.. :)
and in design department there 2 major options Flat vs Realism http://www.flatvsrealism.com/
and Instant Notification area more social integration will be good for VB. like the point you make "Twitter Like Feed" i am agree with you and so on other social features should comes in default product

like:
>>Built in Chat System
>>Built in Advanced Post Sharing (Facebook, Twitter, Google+, Pintetest)
>>Thread Featured Image Like WordPress (Extremely necessary for Facebook post sharing, currently we don't get Thread image for links we share on facebook).
>>Built in SEO (We dont want to use 3rd parties as they cannot be trusted as my investment gone on vBSEO)
>>What about user Timeline ?? (If Vb could make user Profile Pages like Facebook Timeline)

Timeline : )

http://i.imgur.com/BKbu7Vo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1ec2m3U.jpg

i think if we ever wanted new features and innovation, i think a new team of web developer and web designer would need to join the current vb team and assist in this new vision.

http://i.imgur.com/Y35g860.jpg

I think you ppl are just wasting your time suggesting things which will never be implemented unless they make some $$$ out of it.

All the list reminds me of the fake promises by vB.

What's To Come For vBulletin - Part II

I'll quote the list here..

It's been 3.5 years, you can figure out the stuffs which have been implemented so far.

Just stop.. we like to waste time, what is your deal? We skipped the XF drama, now this. If you know any better, improvements starts with a change.

And that huge list you quoted many of it was already added into 4.x

Here is the deal, you don't have to downgrade threads like these to praise XF, so stop. XF has the least of these entire features and for them to justify why XF lacks many of VB features, they had to come up with this absurd comment, by Kier

Complete nonsense, that is not a vision. They aren't doing anything outside the box to claim that they are built on being unique and innovative, complete utter nonsense. Superior user experience vs lack of features (Did Kier even thought about his marketing comment before stating it) //

I'm entitled to my own opinion, as a vB customer i have the rights to criticize the product, it seems like you have some problem with xF and coming up with irrelevant replies. My point was clear that vB ppl don't keep up their words nor gonna listen to our feedback.

Ok whatever keep your nonconstructive opinion. You were not criticizing Vb, you were asking us to stop dreaming about future features. See the "Difference" ? k

NO PROBLEM, we will do it on our own if vb can't do something about it.. and we are not wastinbg time we are sharing ideas that can be implemented. take deeper look at my forum http://www.xitclub.com/ and look at Forum Display to Thread Display i've implemented my ideas! and many things without additional mods.

as i m not vb expert but i've done the maximum i can and i m not stopping and every day try to make my site more advanced.

but if VB team could help us to implement new ideas via programming (which currently i cannot) we can make VB a totally different..

and my next target to chnage the complete look of user profile page on my forum

OK, you gotta it right.

Good for you, i am just being realistic.

Also the thread title is just misleading :p

A large number of vB/IB bashers are not customers of vbulletin either. ;)

For everyone who followed this thread, I had some doubts about XF, but this is coming straight from yet another founder of XF. So it became crystal clear now how these guys operates XF. It is ironic that they would act that way when they were the first to whine and appeal to members during their litigation time with IB asking for everyone's support and saying that they are the better people and the good guys, they were opportunists.

So for everyone, think again before buying a XF, they will certainly censor you if they find you criticizing them, that logic is garbage and shows that they are insecure about their own product quality, and that is why it fails when you give few developers the ability to start their own company and act as managers as well, they have experience in web developing may be but not with providing current or future customer satisfaction.

In business, no way should you act that way especially if you are going to sell a product.

You can't compare 10 years in business like VB with different level of teams and departments to an opportunist 1 year in business like XF which is founded by 2 web developers (Mike & Kier) and a 1 business manager (Ashely).

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/66.png

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/67.png

If you love hypocrites ^ who loves to violate their own terms and rules, be my guess. So Brogan, one of their staff, has the right to mention my name with lies to secure the way XF looks but I don't have the right for my response to him to be approved and shown publicly to address his lies but it gets moderated and deleted. What kind of delusional people are they.

If vb did anything like this, and started restricting members profiles because they criticized vb itself for the past 10 years, vb wouldn't have survived all these years and their reputation would have been tainted as one of the bad companies. Xenforo just won this title. Give it a try and start testing XF's behavior, you won't be surprised by their treatment. This is not a one case scenario, this is a matter of good principles and i certainly dislike sugar coating.

For them to censor my replies, they are extremely insecure and they appear to love controlling member's responses toward their product, but what they don't get is that they can't control and censor people's critic outside of their own forum, and i certainly will not invest in XF in the future. And because i didn't violate their rules, my account is not banned but rather they are giving me a limited account access (can't pm my friends, my replies and topics are all being send to moderation).

Imagine if you bought XF and later criticize it just to find that your account was limited and found that any comment or topic you made is moderated and that you can't pm any of your friends at all (function removed). I wonder how you will feel. Brogan actually had to say a lie such as a "disgruntle Xenforo customer who couldn't get it to work properly" just to make it sound that XF is actually better than VB. When i never bought XF in the first place.

http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png <-- (they never approved this reply at all but deleted it) and they are most likely lurking this topic

Garbage business model.

And for the record, they haven't denied bashing.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/63.png

The title of this thread should read Xenforo vs katie hunter

This user has some problem with XF team and want us to jump to a conclusion that xenforo suxx.

No point of this thread and i am not gonna waste my time here.

1. I am not the OP, so I didn't create this thread, i am sharing my exp with a company that many lacked knowing their true faces.

2. You've made your point before, yes don't waste your time here and go back to XF.

3. You forgot to tell everyone that your mad at me for blocking you on skype, we did a project in the past (not even you, your buddy did who left you later) and we moved on, you certainly can't get over that fact and will bump in several threads where i reply like this one, same can be said about Jacquii (you guys should put me on your ignore list, and you won't have to read my comments). But these personal attacks should stay off topic, you guys don't have to pop in topics i reply in to attack me or change the subject. That is just how things are for both of you : ) can't change that.

We don't have to bash VB/IB just so you can stay happy. This was about ex vb developers (Mike & Kier) who ceased an opportunity and made a product and sales $$ from working with VB in the past, they didn't market XF from the start nor were they new developers bringing a new vision with potential product to the forum market. They were ex vb developers, who left VB and ceased an opportunity and marketed off bashing VB/IB and their involvement in a valid litigation by allowing their members to do so and to this day, they haven't stopped. That is how they made sales, especially taking advantage of the havoc which were against vb 4.x and later 5.x. They ceased that opportunity. It is called dirty business, only you will hear about it on Wall Street.

Take it this way, i have a company, and i spend several years in promoting it and later some of my staff, we let them go for whatever reason but they made a company similar to ours and because they were popular in my company, they stole some of my traffic and members, how would you feel about that ? Every one should ask this question. This is the same scenario with XF vs VB/IB. Many didn't see it that way because of how they disliked VB 5.x but this is the reality and it shouldn't be shattered because of vb 5.x.

Vb 5.x will improve, if you know, VB 5.x is made from scratch using a custom framework made by VB but with XF they are using Zend framework http://www.zend.com/en/ , http://framework.zend.com/ instead of starting from the scratch because it takes time to built a framework from scratch. Don't promote XF while bashing VB because you're disappointed with the version they release that doesn't look good, changes come with time.

Sorry Paul M, but I'll stand by my points I made earlier...but that is just my opinion ;)

1. Then create one for yourself.

2. I don't remember saying that i am gonna move to XF, many of my clients still use vB and i provide support for them.

3. Hahaha Wait, was it a multi million project? which makes me go mad at you. I don't give a damn about you/ your projects. I don't want to people to jump in to a false conclusion and you can't digest the facts. Of-course that wasn't a custom coded skin and even here you are just trying to prove that you are right with your Xenforo bashing.

k whatever, just leave, you said.. "I am not gonna waste my time here."

________________________________

I am not someone who tends to join the bandwagon like many did with XF. I looked at what started it and how it continued and what changed. Instead of being blind by drama. I tested XF behavior and found how their staff behaved, and pics are there for prove and they are coming from staff and the founders of XF. I don't need to do anything to prove a valid point, the pictures i shared and the topics over on XF about VB in term of bashing speaks for themselves.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/63.png

The solution here is don't bash VB while promoting XF on Vbulletin forum, do it on XF because they allow it there (you will definitely feel disgusted after a while joining their bandwagon), it helps their sales $$. We certainly had enough of XF and their bashing on Vbulletin. It is getting old and it is rubbish.

________________________________

Back to vb: I really wish that they renovate their site default style because it needs more work, especially their profile look, and make good use of interactive design and user interface. Something like this is very appealing, especially if integrating social features and a timeline

http://i.imgur.com/Y35g860.jpg

It can be done, it just need skilled web designers and the color could be white, gray, blue and black instead of blue and black. Modern colors in my opinion are now days gray, black and blue but not dark backgrounds. A style like this, can leave an opportunity for many new decent features.

Back on topic?!?

The thread is actually entitled What do you think about Vbulletin vs Xenforo?
Yet when someone even vaguely shows a pro-XF stance they are faux-shutdown and screamed at by hypocritical twits who obviously have nothing better to do with their time than stalk the XF forums.

How bizarre and utterly strange vB.org politics are at times.


True. And they should take a seat and shut up ;)

J.

Oh, come on, Pro-XF stance is shown here all the time and no one bashes like XF does with VB. Sigh you really love plain lies aren't you.

Btw please please work on your logo styles http://jacquiidesigns.com/ (: i was really disturbed when i read your description then later looked up the samples you shared.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/4.gif

You can always start by learning from 99design http://99designs.com/logo-design or look up Deviant Art. Or you can take yourself to a whole new level of web design and take a look at https://www.behance.net/ , https://www.behance.net/search?search=logo

But please don't speak about "sophistocated design", btw it is sophisticated.

Insult for insult. Mine a bit more relevant than yours of course...
You really are quite something else aren't you Katie. :D
Thanks for the link push... Yawn.

J.

I didn't insult you, i really gave you a good advise (: with really good links. Post these logos on my site in the GFX section and you most probably will receive a harsher critic but in a friendly tone. Just start from these sites to learn how logos are properly designed then you will be better and meet these words you are talking about. But definitely, i am sorry, these are not any where near the claimed sophisticated logo design.

You dig deep into your old arsenal of insults and don't even have the courage to call it what it is!?
You really are a special breed of human eh?
Thanks for caring

Now back on topic: vBulletin, sadly, is a quickly dying product. Development has slowed to a tedious trickle. The flagship product is dismal. Internet Brands has basically admitted to his truth by failing to move any of their own forums to vB 5 Connect, or even vB 4.

In comparison, xF development is booming.

Why this fact makes you the obvious bitter bit of business that you are is mind-boggling.

J.

You two stop, please :cool:.

If you insist. I was feeling stalked there for a moment... So.
With pleasure lol.

J.

Huh ?? You quoted a post of Katies, not me.

Isnt it funny how people do that with vbulletin all the time (go look at TAZ, or the other admin sites) and everyone thinks its fine, but dare to knock XF and its like the end of the world.

Whats good for one is good for another.

It is because they didn't test XF enough in term of starting to criticize some of their lack of features, XF founders played with VBulletin members' emotions and anger toward VB 5.x, while ceasing a good opportunity.

1. VB 4.x had issues while later 5.x was not a good release at all with many problems.

2. VB ex developers Kier and Mike left VB after like 9 years and went on making Xenforo and claimed that it is better than VB and creating a forum software the right way.

3. Many Vb members were angry and let down by IB changes and bad management and others looked toward a new hope.

4. Kier and Mike knew that this is their opportunity, they wouldn't need to invest in marketing Xenforo because through working with VB, they made so many fans already and would have followers, so why not just use this chance to enter the forum market.

5. IB saw that what they did is wrong and hurting their sales and initiated a litigation against XF with an x amount of claims. Kier and Mike should have expected this.

6. XF kept their members bashing VB and IB, especially VB 5.x while Mike and Kier kept posting several time about the lawsuit and updated their members with how the court ruled in each motion and how some claims were dismissed while others were not. Later let their moderators update the lawsuit progress, as if everyone know about how the court proceeding is and how discovery works, pretrial preparation and so on.

Vb never has done that, although they could have as well. You have one community such as XF who loved to bash while another like VB who didn't allow it. It is unprofessional especially when you are selling a product.

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/63.png

I remember this huge sticky topic on XF about each and every ruling the court made wherein some were not in favor of XF and it made XF members even questioning how the judge presiding over the case was not fair to XF.

7. Case was settled, although the term of settlement were not revealed and that is usually the standard of any settlement but to date XF haven't stopped from bashing VB to gain new sales. They will run toward any VB customer and try to convenience him or her how wonderful XF is while bashing Vb, especially VB 5.x

They will also claim that it is cheaper but by the time a customer buys XF, he will find himself investing into many addons that are already core default features of vb 4.x and will probably spend anywhere form $400 to $800 just to have all his needed addons in.

Many looked at this from a factual eye and accesses true facts while others simply join the bandwagons.

That is why i shared what XF is all about, do you love to be censored just for stating your opinion about XF? I don't think so.

XF founders have no shame in denying it nor fixed their wrongdoing, they believe in "Lets get rid of those criticizing XF so we can grow better" They didn't think about well we have a member of XF who join Xenforo several years ago and she has a certain view that we should address, respect, and listen to. No, instead, lets bash her, and later restrict her profile so she can't post ; lets censor her and let our staff state lies when a VB topic is brought up http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....6&postcount=21
https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....1&postcount=56

It is wrong to do that. It is wrong to censor critics and it is wrong to allow XF staff to lie and bully members who they might not like. Ashley one of XF Founders, said it is not bully and that XF staff has the right to address a member of the community.

What bully is to find that a member's comments are censored through moderation and deleted later so it doesn't appear publicly, while allowing a XF Staff to spread lie for the sake of sales for XF http://i.imgur.com/TJGpqQY.png

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/36.jpg

It is surprising that these same XF Staff and founders where whining and appealing to us for almost 2 years that they were always the good guys and the ones who were prejudiced and better than VB and many were drawn into this drama that should have stayed private from the start.

XF was certainly arrogant and lacked good principles, and clearly didn't think about my contribution in the past and only looks at sales # by saying "ok this member didn't buy XF yet, she i no good for us because she criticized XF" the correct path should have been "We've made a mistake by restricting her profile, we should alter this action and allow her to post without moderation because we see that she is interested in XF and might a year later buy it and bring yet another big community to appreciate our product"

It is my choice to wait and see how XF will change, just like it is my choice for waiting to see how VB 5.x will change later.

I won't blindly support XF without seeing that they improve and listen to members' feedback, another major issue which came up, they actually don't listen to your views, they have a very conservative view and path.

You don't believe me? here is Kier's view http://www.theadminzone.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=78018

Don't you find this vision absurd ? They say they want to provide superior user exp but which lacked in features. Read between the lines and look at what XF did actually, using redactor editor instead of CKeditor. Lacks many of VB default features in the admin panel while giving you a simple system that just does the job without proper control.

Did you actually know that when you soft delete a thread using XF, your staff can't search that thread, it gets deleted from their search engine core whereas in VB you can search for any threads even the soft deleted topics. There are many features and things that XF lacked and they aren't bringing anything new either and they won't.

They are there for business $$, they aren't there to provide you with a better experience.

What i am personally looking for is a company with a unique vision and goals to make the forum market a better place by offering key features which provides a better sharing and communication experience. This is what i am looking for, innovations and new ideas, it is 2014 not 2005. Web developing and Web design is advancing and interactive web design is becoming popular every day.

http://vimeo.com/71187136 I want to see VB moving toward a unique approach. Mike and Kier aren't doing that, they are doing another VB version done their way.

I personally have hopes for VB and only days can prove it. It needs some time and we don't know if IB management will change now or later but certainly no one who invest in a business would love to see it sink. People invest in businesses and buy them for improvements not to see them fail and lose $$

If you're displeased with IB managements, i think the appropriate approach is to start contacting them in 100s and initiate an online petition http://www.change.org/ to tell them what is wrong and how things needs to change and you can only do that if many vb customers get together. I personally think what VB needs is a new set of web developers and web designers to join the current team to bring new ideas, and features to VB like that Feed twitter like feature I proposed earlier.

http://www.internetbrands.com/
http://www.internetbrands.com/contact-us/

If the founders of XF were former employees at VB, why were they not bound by a non-disclosure/non-competition clause in their contracts? I've been working in the computer business as a hardware specialist for 35 years and such contracts are a standard thing, especially in the software end of the business. If they were bound by such a contract, VB needs better lawyers who would make certain they were enforced. IF they were not bound by such a contract, VB/IB made a serious error and tough luck - deal with it.

Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd sold VB to IB - Internet Brands and this clause in the contract couldn't have not been mentioned in Jelsoft contract. We don't know the terms of their contract.

But yes Kier and Mike use to work for Vb and Kier was the lead developer actually. Just imagine the opportunity they ceased when creating Xenforo, no need for marketing especially when VB 5.x had so many issues. That is why i said they were opportunist, many have missed looking at the entire story from a factual point of view and just bashed VB because of IB miss management of VB 5.x.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBulletin

- On 4 July 2007 Jelsoft announced that Jelsoft had been acquired by Internet Brands, which promised significant investment in software development.

- In 2009, long-time developers Kier Darby, Mike Sullivan, Scott MacVicar and Jeremy Hutchings left the company. Kevin Sours, Don Kuramura, and Ray Morgan took Darby's place as lead developer, product manager, and general manager, respectively

Sorry to confuse you! :D

I'm staying out of this post....I realise now that Katie has issues

It isn't funny at all imo. It's rather tiresome.

What I've noticed in particular though is that the vB dissension is based on what we can most all certainly agree is vBulletin 4 & vBulletin 5 Connect: the failure of the script to live up to license holders' expectations and the failure of Internet Brands to give a damn about the circumstances.

Most XF dissension (as you can see with our dear Katie) is based on what I call irrelevancies: how the XF community is blegh, how the XF moderating team are blegh, how XF developers are opportunists, how her feelings are hurt because of bla bla bla and blegh again.

Let the dissension be about the actual SCRIPTS, not some petty BS that has nothing to do with the scripts.

Yes we know XF is a young script. As such it is not as loaded with bloat as mature scripts like vB or IPB. But there IS vast development taking place.

Unfortunately we cannot say this about vBulletin.

Wow! What a read! A mini-novela, 99% of which has nothing to do with the actual xenforo script and its functionality. :rolleyes:

Yes - we get it. Kier and Mike have somehow managed to virtually piss in your Cheerios. You, without purchasing an XF license, ate it up and are apparently mad. But seriously - These types of posts (filled with conjecture and misinformation) make you look quite silly.

What you (apparently?) fail to realize is that vB 4 Gold hit the scene with a dull sizzle-pop! 2 years later - 4.2 seems to have stabilized and usable. Then comes vB 5 Connect, which hit the scene with an astounding sizzle-pop, infuriating those of us who have been longtime vBulletin loyalists, forcing us to find alternative solutions. Perhaps in the next couple years - vBulletin 5 Connect will actually be a usable software? Who knows? I begin to think a lot of folks don't care anymore....

Enter Xenforo, which was a complete from-the-ground-up, fresh rewrite, as opposed to refactored code. It's my understanding that Kier & Mike suggested a rewrite of vB 5 Connect. IDK - I could be wrong here... But fast-forwarding to now: Xenforo is seeing a boom in development - bugs are getting sorted quickly - new features are being added.

Meanwhile at vBulletin: stagnation.

It's my understanding that Kier, Ashley & Mike were under a 365 day non-compete clause. Perhaps someone else can verify this?... They developed Xenforo 1.0 during this time, a script which for all intents and purposes has been called the non-vBulletin - a truly functional script, both in terms of innovation and code quality.

IMO Internet Brands/vBulletin lawsuit was absolutely meritless. Their attorneys dragged the lawsuit out as long as possible. The general online consensus is that they were being the big-bully company, trying to shut down the budding script.

vB/IB did make a few serious errors imo - The most glaring is that they spent huge amounts of capital $$$ on attorneys. This money desperately needed to be spent on developers! As a result - vBulletin's code quality suffered, additional employees became jaded and either left or were 'let go'

Still to this very day, IB/vB are OBLIVIOUS as how to put their vehicle back on track to be the worlds leading forum software... Sad day.

J.

Okay... so lets just skip the nonsense part of your reply and the weird sizzle-pop language you use. But are you a lawyer? Nope. Do you know how litigation works ? Nope.

Dragging a litigation ? That is definitely a XF staff comment. How many times have i heard this on XF forum in the past just to bash VB, like so many many times :rolleyes: and they were talking to people who lacked legal background.

A plaintiff or a defendant has the right to file 1st, 2nd, and 3rd amended complaints and add parties to claims when they see it fit, they are there to win a case or settle it fairly in the first place. Perfectly fine and actually the litigation between IB and Xenforo wasn't even that long and it wasn't dragging, it wasn't a 3 year litigation, most litigation will take anywhere between 1 to 2 years to reach a trial. Discovery proceeding by itself could take up to 9 month.

And btw, Xenforo is not building a software from scratch like Vbulletin wich runs its own custom firmware in the back-end made from ground up. XF used a shortcut and created XF based on a premade custom firmware i.e., Zend Framework http://www.zend.com/en/

I certainly don't have any issues, you came here not liking my responds trying to turn this topic into a useless drama : ) I've used VB for like 8 years and I appreciated the efforts they put in, I've upgrade to vb 4.x just last year from 3.7.6 and i usually take time before i see a stable version. I will do the same when VB 5.x looks more appealing a year or two later. I show support when it is right to do so and that is the right choice.

I have 1.5+ million register members on a forum that loves Vbulletin and receive about any where form 500 to 900 new registered members on daily basis. If i ever switched to Xenforo, the amount of dislike and anger from our members will be huge, this tells many of us something. You can run Xenforo while bashing VBulletin but how many big communities run XF vs how many big communities run VB. Last time i checked, VB won this.

Well, I'll just shut up...

Again with the irrelevancies...as if you know me. And possible misinformation, as if you know what you're talking about. For all you know - I could be a para-legal who knows more about the American system of jurisprudence than those who have passed the bar exam.

Anyway - Can any official vB Staff clarify: Was it suggested by Kier and team (prior to disappearing from vB/IB's payroll) that vB 4 be a complete rewrite? Was the suggestion slapped down or no? Is the XF script based on a complete code rewrite?

Furthermore - since Katie says vB 5 Connect is 'new' -- Can you tell us if vB 5 Connect is based on freshly rewritten code or refactored code? Whether refactored or freshly written code - would you call vB 5 Connect a success or a laughable sizzle-pop? :D

Thanks,

J.

fyi ==> My use of sizzle-pop is actually called onomatopoeia. Enlighten yourself if you must: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onomatopoeia
My use of it (for your clarification) is that vB 4 - vB 5 Connect should have hit the scene like a firecracker BOOM! Instead - both hit the scene like duds ;)
Speaking of firecrackers - have you played with any lately? No? You should https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/3.gif

Please don't allow a twit of an internet-bully to scream and scare you from stating your opinion!
BTW - you ARE right. Katie has issues. I have issues. Paul has issues. You have issues. Everyone has issues.
She's just in lala land and refuses to acknowledge the fact. ;)

J.

God, I'm not getting scared off...just not getting involved with someone who for some reason feels hard done by and has, in my opinion, stated all sorts of nonsense....this is something which should be on a personal blog somewhere or on your own website. I said before that conversations like this bring a site down a notch or two (any site not just on here)...that's my opinion and I stand by it

And for the record Katie, I've been here for 10 years and up until very recently I run 4 sites on 4 different platforms. Each platform has their good and bad points but I've never gone around "bashing" any of them or staff on official or modification supporting forums. I'm certainly not a xenForo-fangirl

There's not going to be a decent discussion on xenForo vs vBulletin - an actual discussion on the merits of each software because there will always be people stirring it.