Time will tell but currently VB wins over Xenforo for me. I am looking for a good 'Complete' product - feature rich, so i won't abandon VB just because IB is so bad. There are other means that can force IB to change their business practice, more public criticism. No one likes to sell a business and yet instead of receiving good publicity, receive bad criticism. I haven't seen bad criticism about IB that would cause them to worry and start revising themselves, what i saw is criticism toward VB instead of IB more.

You can't put words in my mouth because i never said this. I quotes some of the replies when others say Xenforo is catching up with VB. That is just a plain dream or a lie. It is not about "I don't like what ppl like about Xenforo" I am a member there and i have test it myself and found lack of major features, especially when it comes to the admincp.

We know you support Xenforo and you sell mods there, it is ok to support what helps you make money or the fact you don't like IB, but it is not ok to support wrong facts.

And the fact that we want to see for instance the new Ckeditor on vb 4.x , and it is not done yet because it is time consuming, it would be hypocrite of me and others to demand it when Xenforo have completely choose the easy way out and implemented the Redactor editor which is ugly; simple but ugly and not feature rich.

Business practices are like the wind. You never know which direction your favorite company is going to go. That's why I pay little attention to it. I look at the product. If they're not manufacturing their line with souls of orphan babies, I'm probably not going to care how unintellegent they are. It's not like they're going to pay much attention to me.

Where you can make some headway is on the user to developer level. You express your needs reasonably to the development staff (or their equivalent, depending on the company we're talking about) and you can sometimes take advantage of changing winds. Consider the fact that the changes with vBulletin, the one's you don't like, were sudden and unexpected. No reason it can't, and most likely will, change again.

Consider, too, that these types of discussions seem to want to place vBulletin and xenForo owners in two distinct categories, when they don't have to be. I happen to own licences for both. I like both. I use both. I am starting to develop for both. I don't care if the companies, or the fans, want to quibble. Because leaning one way or the other cheats me of the user experience gained from each.

That is exactly right (: and what Mike referred to below.

What people seem to forget is what a tiny fraction of IB's business vB is. They simply don't care, and they have proven that over several years now. Where people muster their optimism now that the dev team is down to three (!), is beyond me. Now, of course, people will say that xF is only two devs. Yes. But those two devs were able to come up with a very good forum software, and, since that's up to taste, with very good code quality and very low bug count. I will not go into details what vB's legion of coders came up with since 2009.

Xenforo is new and based half on Zend framework, modified version + Xenforo. Vb from what i know is not based on a pre-made framework but done from scratch.

It is not about optimism, everything needs optimism anyways but if IB received a bad buzz through business field because of VB and how they handle it, this will affect the remaining of their other businesses and they will have to revise their plans. No one wants to do business with company which disregard customers demands and voices, that is how things are. Money comes with customer satisfaction and good opportunities.

There isn't enough buzz about IB, and how they handle Vb, it is not even in the main stream media. Members have always focused more on VB and complaining toward VB but never changed their direction to complain and make topics about IB and see who manages VB from the inside and so on.

Funny. I thought from the sound of the thread title that this thread might border on lunacy.
I was correct. "4.x is amazing."? Ha! Yeah right.. With its hundreds of confirmed, yet unresolved bugs!?
Total nonsensical thinking....

J.

After Years On VB, And Days On Xf. it Is Not Looking Good For VB from My Point. Especially After The Vb5 Release, The Future Of VB Don't Look Good. VB3 Was The Best Release And has Went Downhill Ever Since. Don't get me wrong i still have a vb license and may or may not switch back, bot over the last few days on XF i am truly impressed.

One can find something flawed amazing, if the bugs don't directly relate to anything they personally do on their site. Which is why so many people liked Ford in the 80s.

Most important thing when big boards decide about the software they use is not only today. They also try to think about the future. Will you create a business which is dedicated to casette's ? Of course no because that technology is dead. That is the unfortunate truth about vBulletin. It is dying slowly and the future doesn't look so bright.So why expect anyone to dedicate their time on a software which has no future at all.

Also as stated earlier not all boards move to XF , we moved to IPB and happy about it. Digitalpoint were ahead of us on post numbers when they move to xf and we completed our move. Now we have more posts then Digitalpoint.

We use some free some paid modifications for IPB but we also had a lot of custom development because of our boards needs.

Which also can clearly point out that all boards needs are different from one another. So no solution is perfect but at least other solutions seem to have future.

Some of the things you list it doesn't have. But I think you are looking at the software from a administrator perspective.

What really counts is how users rate the software and from our experience in the last two years its nothing but positive after people have adapted to the new forum software.

User experience is king imo.

The free add-ons, I actually avoid. Paying a tiny bit to a proper developer ensures me that there will be ongoing support, improvements and so far every installed payware mod (with exception of one) has worked out very nicely.

If vB4 and 5 are so feature rich and good, how come vb.org is still using the 3.x series since 1978?

The fact that you react so agitated to my honest comments makes me realize i shouldn't have replied to this topic in the first place.

I am not a vBulletin hater, on the contrary, still owe my old licenses from back in the days and if vB6 or 7 will be better than other forum software out there Ill migrate back without a hesitation. As said: user experience is king, so the challenge is all yours.

You have some points.

Agreed, that's missing. But there's a great addon that offers better functionality than vB.

For that, I honestly don't care. This is a setup once and forget functionality. Doesn't bother me at all.

Given the state of blogs and articles of vB4, I consider them unusable for me. So this really is feature parity for me. And what I have read about CMS implementation in vB5 leaves me seriously underwhelmed, too. On the other hand, I could say: Does vB3 or 4 have a ressource manager (capable of being used for quite more than managing ressources)?

Multiquote is in the making.

You mean the functionality vB deemed so importand it removed it from vB5?

Given vB5 has not even 50 modifications after a full year this is really not a point vB can make. And yes, xF has lots of very good quality free addons, and 1095 addons at the moment in the ressource manager overall.

That, sorry, sounds like a quite lame excuse given the bug record of vB4. Most of the code was from vB3, which was virtually bug free, but still vB4 managed to introduce a gazilliion of bugs, many of which are still unresolved.

At least for me, stability and future are key aspects. vB4 will soon no longer be usable, given there won't be much development and IB's lagging when it comes to adapting to new technology (IE versions, PHP versions...). In the end, vB5 is vB4's future, and that's just a too horrible perspective to even remotely contemplate it.

Well, there's xF-functionality I really miss in vB, too. WebDAV template editing, for example, or Private Conversations, which are so much more versatile than PMs in vB, or AdminCP search, or a working and worthwile notification system, or @Username tagging. And, as I pointed out, xF has one absolute key feature for me over vB: future, and reliable, stability oriented development as opposed to the cash grab stunts IB pulled with vB4 and vB5.

Yet all this is my personal preference. I just sometimes feel people have taken a look at xF when it came out, then never cared to follow the releases after.

You speculate so much to defend Xenforo. You're making it sound like VB will close and Xenforo will live which doesn't make any sense and the cash grab about IB, Xenforo is there for business and money as well. It is hypocrite when we say VB is all about money and Xenforo isn't.

For me no matter how i look at these statements or similar, i can't join the bandwagon and say Xenforo is better, XF is missing a many features and it is not that great currently other than being light and having good SEO aspect. It needs 3 - 4 years to shine and see what it is all about, then we can make judgement.

You don't know the future of VB and you don't know if IB will hire new developers to increase their staff. You don't know how VB will expend but I am expecting that VB might take a future approach into becoming something more than a forum but rather something closer to social network, more profile options and features. The goal of forums is to create a community and try to connect your members with each other in the easiest way possible, inspired by Tweeter and FB features. If IB is smart, they would take this approach as something fresh and new, by thinking outside the box.

For Xenforo, they need at least 3 years to have all the features that vb has, bug free as well, then they can start to expend on more ideas. Seeing as it is now, they are choosing the quickest and easy way in term of features and relaying on developers to create some of Vb default features in order to push forward their product.

For ex https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....1&postcount=54

Why should i buy something that is missing but available on VB core features. So many of vb default features XF don't have, Xenforo software will cost me if i want to cover every vb default feature that is missing. It doesn't make any sense.

At the end of the day, truth be told VB is better than Xenforo at the moment and that is the cloudy truth, the hype about XF and joining the bandwagon is foreshadowing these facts. And when i say better i am referring to vb 4.x. It will take few years for vb 5.x to become more stable and feature rich and only then we can compare and contrast between VB 5.x and Xenforo.

The one thing i hate about VB though is how ravage they keep changing the system and core coding that it forces me to lose my current addon and custom skins, and I would need to invest several times to get them back. That is not fun especially when support gets discontinued.

Poor example on your part. You're comparing a topic subscription system (which XF has built in and works very well) to a bookmark system. Those are two entirely different things.

There's actually very little missing from the core XF system as compared to vB. As a matter of fact, many of the core functions work better than vB (user and usergroup permissions for one). And what may be missing, I don't miss at all when I use XF.

Following this thread, it really sounds like some people don't understand how to use some of the XF functions so vB wins out by default.

Who Has Visited In Last 24 Hours (VB has that in its default function)
http://xenforo.com/community/resourc...24-hours.1442/

Ad Manager 1.0 Beta 3.0.1 (VB has that in its default function)
http://xenforo.com/community/resources/ad-manager.294/

Better Blogs 1.0.33 (VB has that in its default function - blog feature)
http://xenforo.com/community/resourc...er-blogs.1055/

[1.2.x] Current Thread Viewers/Browsers 1.1 (VB has that in its default function)
http://xenforo.com/community/resourc...browsers.2333/

[1.1x&1.2x] New Users Welcome 1.2 (VB has that in its default function)
http://xenforo.com/community/resourc...-welcome.1293/

Multi-Quote Posts 1.0 (VB has that in its default function)
http://xenforo.com/community/resourc...te-posts.2066/

I think these are good examples while they are many more, if i keep adding up the price, surely Xenforo will be so much more expensive than VB. Not to mention upgrading these addons when a new XF is released.

You mean like a like system or working notifications? *lol*

You're obviously confused. It is vB that needs three years after every release to get their versions at least half way usable (I'm not saying bug free, just look at the vB4-tracker).

Thanks for proving that you just have no idea what you're talking about. vB does not have a bookmarking system, it has a subscription system (which xF has, too). In fact, there is a bookamarks addon for vB :p
http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/produ...st-bookmarking

And of the many you choose the single one that did not fit, huh?

No one is asking you to. That's entirely your choice, just as it is mine.

It doesn't have to make sense, and you don't have to buy it if you don't want to.

You're entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else. Problem is: Everyone else's arguments are "joining a bandwagon" and "speculation", while you yourself only present "the truth" and "facts" (poorly researched and understood, at that, see above).

And, hm, it does not make you think twice at all that it takes new vB releases three years to get usable? And I'm not talking missing features. I'm talking usable at all.

Ah. Now, you see. You said yourself in the past that you had no idea of code quality. But obviously you experience what happens when code is poor and design is without thought.

Did you intend to skip this reply and comment on the bookmark post only :d ?

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....1&postcount=54

It amazes me when people talk so confidently about things they don''t have a clue about. No offence meant, but for future reference, make sure to think first before you speak, well in this case write. You will prevent yourself from looking like ignorant.

--------------- Added [DATE]1385665262[/DATE] at [TIME]1385665262[/TIME] ---------------

Not to mention the security that it leaves a lot to be desired lately.

Hey everyone, I'd rather not have to delete this thread so please keep all "pricing" out if it, I've went back a few posts and removed a few references to prices. You're free to discuss this but not paid versions/pricing or anything related to $ so lets keep it clean otherwise this will be removed like the last topic that was off course when prices were starting to be listed.

This went totally off the rails. I have removed a couple of pages of largely utter nonsense & arguments, which I cannot be bothered to go through post by post. Time to move on and behave people.