Everyone still is referring to errors, which is wrong and completely different from warnings, which is what has been suppressed. :)

And a warning means?

As far as I understand, a warning is something that people, generally should pay attention to.

Allow me to illustrate. . . .

http://b4thethrone.webng.com/Graphics-C/BridgeOut.jpg

Most of them are warnings telling you something might be depreciated, but that does not necessarily mean that it is going to stop working. I am trying to defend anything, just trying to make sure everyone understands it's not errors that is being discussed. :)

OK....let me ask you something. If vBulletin said in it's advertisements that some warning messages are intentionally being suppressed would you still be willing to purchase the software not knowing what those warning conditions were?

Yes, as I knew this was being done in the early stages of vB3 when I was a admin on various sites. I then proceeded to purchase my own vB license, and have since then purchased 2 more, one of which was vB5, and TBH I wish I would have waited on that till it was stable. :)

Really don't want to be pedantic here but we are talking about a platform that is a hell of a lot more popular/used/viable/functional than the example quoted above.

Well, would you still be willing to purchase it if you knew that the current staff has no knowledge of some of the code included and apparently cannot support it - according to a current staff member?

Where does Zachary say it can not be supported? From what I read he says the suppressing of the warnings was turned off, and sure some went unnoticed. This is bound to happen as code acts different on various servers due to different configurations. :)

And yes I would still but another license if I needed to, but I don't. ;)

Well better late than never....:D

When does an error become a warning ?

True, but hopefully with the latest release of vB4 they are all fixed. :)

When he says there is no knowledge about the code "laying around" and also when he says it has not been addressed in about a decade. If they haven't corrected it in a decade then I would say that means that portion of the code is not being supported

So you are assuming then, he never came out and said it was not supported. :)

He also stated in that post that all the warnings should be taken care of now, " In 4.2.3 I believe they've all been addressed, and we're working on 5.5 issues now. "

Does that mean that there will not be more in the future, no. It also does not mean that everyone is corrected. :p

You actually do not know what you are talking about, and you've also ignored every single attempt anyone's made to explain it to you.

Please refer back to Joe's earlier post which explains it precisely and answers every point you're trying to make.

Of course, what you're ACTUALLY trying to is bash the company, which is why you aren't taking the slightest bit of notice of the facts being presented to you and instead keep posting the same thing over and over again.

--------------- Added [DATE]1410124101[/DATE] at [TIME]1410124101[/TIME] ---------------

Utter rubbish.

I don't appreciate you accusing me of trying to bash the company. I therefore accuse YOU of trying to justify bad coding and support.

Please tell me when it is considered good coding practice to ignore warning messages instead of identifying and correcting the root cause? If that's the way you design systems then I suggest you take a few business and systems design courses at your local college. It sounds like you could benefit from them.

Again, please read Joe's post where he explains in detail that these matters have been fixed....

4.2.2 behaves the way it does by default because vBulletin were FIXING the warnings.
Yet here you are, complaining about warnings not being fixed, despite you being told several times now that they are being fixed.

Really don't know how to spell it out any better than Joe did in his earlier post.

You need to get a clue. I am complaining about the following (so it is crystal clear to you):

1) I was not informed prior to purchasing this software that warning messages were being suppressed. The sellers should have informed potential customers of this

2) I was told by a support staff member that these warning messages have been around for a decade without being addressed. That is unacceptable coding practice in my book

3) I was told by the same support staff member that they did not have the knowledge "laying around" about the code that was generating the messages. This means that they are selling software that they have no knowledge about. If you know nothing about the code then how do you support it? How do you properly test each new release? How do you even know what it contains? And why can't you understand it? Do you not have the technical skill set to understand it?


Are you clear now? Do you now understand what I am talking about?

PHP "warnings" are really nothing more than information messages, and are intended to be suppressed in production environments. Go read the set-up instructions for php production values.

Actual php errors cannot be supressed, they will generate a fatal error, and the execution will fail at that point.

Ill informed ranting will not change this, nor will it change how php applications are written.

If certain people cannot comprehend what they have been told several times now, then there is little point in this discussion continuing.

If you have issues with the software and how it is coded, and what may have been or not been told to you prior to purchasing, then you need to address this on vB.com.

This site is not for this type of discussions, it is about modifications and making changes to templates and such.

Yes vBulletin do have the technical skillset to develop and support their products. Hence 4.2.2 and 4.2.3 dealing with the warnings and also adding php compatibility to latest versions. However, feel free to ignore these facts and continue with inaccurate rants, as everyone else can now see the facts.

And yes, I do understand what you're talking about, it's just that you're completely wrong.

Understood

This is the way vbulletin works these days... Just hiding the errors is not the answer. :up:

So you are saying, there is no other software out in the world that does not suppress warning messages?

I'm saying vbulletin is doing a sh*ty job here and now I have clients asking me why all these errors are on their pages while they configure the style as they want.

It's making vbulletin look bad for me to say.. Oh, vbulletin knows about these warning and their fix is to just HIDE them.

The professional vBulletin we all knew 5+ years ago is long gone, it's ran by lazy management now that only cares about selling more products and sock puppets that seems to believe their still supporting a superior product.

I wish them the best but I'm moving clients away from vbulletin as fast as I can, it's nowhere worth the headaches it's causing.

For example... I have a client moving from ipb 3.4.6 to vb 4.2 and impex itself has 3 errors in the code which where all reported over 4 years ago and would take a few mins to fix the release package.. Do you think it'll be fixed anytime soon, I'd be impressed if these simple fixes where in place in the next 4 years.

Example #2.. I reported a bug in that godforsaken bug tracker called jiri several years ago.. I'm JUST NOW getting email updates that someone is looking at it. It's always up to the consumer to "post in jiri" yet nothing ever happens, even if the customer goes out of their way to figure out exactly what the problem is and how to fix it... which is wrong on so many levels..

It's time vBulletin acted like the million dollar company it is, not like a few high school kids working on a script on the weekends..

</rant>

You do realize that these error messages have been suppressed since 2004?

So it has nothing to do with the past 5 years, it has been 10 years like this. :)

Yes I read that several times but does that make it right?
Also if they've been hidden for 10 years, why are they popping up now?

Well it may not be right or wrong, but it makes the below a mute point.

They are showing up now because the suppressing of the errors was removed, in order to fix them, AFAIK they are all fixed in the latest beta of vB4/vB3

It doesn't really make it a mute point to me or my client but there is nothing anyone is going to do about it. ;)

There is a reason why error suppression is a built-in language construct. @Brandon Sheley you are arguing something you really do not understand. I doubt that you will find any advance programmer or program written for multiple platforms that does not contain error suppression or error response altering. In fact I do not want to work with a language that lacks this type of mechanism.

If more users would have been involved with alpha testing the releases (I am at fault here), then the error suppression would have not been an issue by the time it went to beta. The lesson here is that vBulletin needs to leave their releases longer in alpha, as I have written about before. From what I can see vBulletin has done exactly that.

I am not sure what your point is for even bringing this up anymore. All I read was a complaint with no suggestions, when I have employees like this I get rid of them due to them wasting everyone's time. Install the latest release and spend your time here on a real issue -- there are many to choose from. :)

To tbworld, thanks for assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, it really reflects on your character.

You said if more would have been involved in beta/alpha testing then this wouldn't have been an issue. As ozzy has said, this has been present for 10 years, I wasn't around to beta test 3.x but I was around for 4 and 5 and I know for a fact that the testers reported tons of errors and it went on deaf ears. If you're in the alpha team for 4 or 5 you would have seen that as well. I don't know if this "bug" was reported but I do know we gave great feedback and it was ignored for the most part.

The lesson is that vbulletin doesn't care about quality anymore, not just in this issue but in general. What the customers get is 50% rubbish and half of the rest works as it should.

My point was that my client pointed this thread out to me thinking it would fix the errors they're seeing on their forum which they paid for. This was a stock setup with only one new style added which the client was working on to make it match their brand. I had to tell them to just ignore the errors because that's what vbulletin told us to do.. Very professional indeed ;)

Why is it up to the customers to suggest how to fix a broken product? Also this was the latest stable release in the members area, so not sure what "latest release" you're talking about.

Define anymore, as this has been around for 10 years. Some very popular developers that are no longer with the company, that are on their own now, activly developed the software knowing they were suppressing errors, and did noting about it either.

As it has been stated many times over, there in sot one software out there that does not do this in some way, at some point in the script.


Well either ignore the error, or add the suppression of the warnings to the includes/config.php file. Since it was this way for ten years, and no one said or did anything about it, including the former developers.

carry on.. everything is fine :rolleyes:

We did carry on, you were the one that replied to a thread that was last replied to over two months ago. :p

haha.. that just makes it that much sadder.. :rolleyes:

We'll just give it 2 more months and maybe the warning will vanish again..LMAO

Good grief, you just don't get it.

See that's where you're dead wrong. I do get it, but then again I'm not brainwashed like some fan boys these days. ;)
I may not be active these days on the org but at one time I was and was a big supporter of vbulletin. Then it went to crap and many of us left.

Enjoy the dust

Ok lets look at your flavor of the month software.

There are a number of application configuration options that are in the library/config.php file. These are advanced options and should be modified with care.

Incorrect configuration of these options may render your XenForo installation unusable. If you run into any problems, undo your modifications.

If you wish to modify any values in your config.php file, simply add a line to the end of the file. This guide assumes a basic understanding of PHP syntax.

• $config['db']['adapterNamespace'] - default: 'Zend_Db_Adapter'
  Controls database connection adapter class that will be used.
• $config['cache']
  This is discussed in the Defining a Cache section.
• $config['debug'] - default: false
  Controls whether debug mode is enabled. Debug mode gives more access to error messages, debugging/performance information, and development tools. It should not be run on a production forum as it may degrade performance or even open up security issues.

Not this is interesting, Debug mode gives more access to error messages

Why would I need more assess to error messages if they are not suppressed somewhere? If they are not suppressed, then why is debug mode needed to show them? Is it magic?

Not sure why on earth your talking about xenforo. Are we drinking early tonight?..lol

Well you seem to think only vBulletin suppresses errors, so I am pointing out that is not the case. :)

I never said that, but feel free to think that's what I said. :up:

Then what is the issue, as it had been stated, every software suppresses warnings in one way or another. If you have a issue with that, take it up with the developers that write PHP, and ask them to remove that functionality in the next version of PHP they release.