@ ProSportsForums

Are you saying that "I" am saying a ToS gives the site owner the right to "carte blanche"?

I have the following in my ToS:

"7. Submission of Content on this Web Site

By providing any Content to our web site such as text, tutorials, reviews, previews, written articles, images, artwork;

(a) you agree to grant to us a perpetual worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive right and license to use, display, reproduce, modify, publish, archive, translate, and to create derivative projects such as tournaments, competitions and compilations, in whole or in part. Such agreement to the license will apply with respect to any form, media, technology known or later developed;

(b) you warrant and represent that you have all legal, moral, and other rights that may be necessary to grant us with the license set forth in this Section 7;

(c) you acknowledge and agree that we shall have the right to remove and or block any access to any "CONTENT" you provide by uploading, or add by means of text into our forums or in articles you submit, but not obligation to remove it only at our sole discretion."

That doesn't mean I am going to reproduce the content but by registering and creating an account the registered member(s) explicitly agree to our Terms of Service.

If you and I are on the same page that doesn't mean that what happened with the OP and the other party is justified by any ToS or even copyright. The other party, if this is the OP's database has stolen their property in this case their (database) regardless of who posted what on the OP's forum or site. This "can" be resolved by what I suggested the OP do with just a simple letter to beging with.

So yes, proving damages is going to be very difficult.

No. I am agreeing with your post. A member consents to the site having the posted material by posting the material. That does not give the site owner legal right to post the material elsewhere nor to sell the material. That is where the ownership issue falls short for the site owner. The member who posted the material is, of course, free to post it anywhere he or she chooses. In the unlikely event a site owner did attempt to sell posted material or to reproduce it on another site the member who originally posted it would still have to prove damages.

Your TOS sets you apart from most forums in that you are specific as to the rights you are requesting in the TOS. I can tell you that I would never agree to your terms. :D

I am glad you now agree that the site owner owns the bits and bytes of information in his database.

However you have erected a strawman, since the owner selling or posting the material elsewhere was NOT part of the original argument. You have attempted to move the goalposts away from your original statement which was:No, it is not.

Ok guys!, here's a link to a law sit on this subject http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98327

This may help a little too https://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/...ility/overview

Did you happen to read her footer disclaimer?

That makes it pretty darn clear Simon, it's humorous to read that convoluted ToS statement and the opinion of the "attorney" there.

Thanks for the post! :D

Hmmm maybe not, read xenforos account, now you know they've had legal issues...read on http://xenforo.com/community/threads...nership.25094/

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Typical legaleese but thats it in a nutshell :)

Exactly on point. Excellent post.

THAT is quite interesting. Was this a US court? Would have been nice of them to post a link to the actual rulings, but I understand why they wouldn't want to do that.

Interesting also that the court seemed to rule that the ToS is more important than some might think.

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Yes, it contradicts what you said, that even if it is spelled out in the ToS who owns what, the person posting the material owns it. Clearly that isn't the case.

If it is spelled out clearly in the ToS that the site owns the content, then the site owns the content and the person posting it has no recourse.

I knew there was a reason I have had that in my ToS for these 11 years.

Selective reading?

I saw that, but then again that person didn't cite any actual case law. Apparently the issue with the aircraft forum being sued was in Australia, I still know of NO such case law or precedent in the United States.

Do you?

But again - earlier you agreed that the bits and bytes of data and information in the site owner's database is owned by the site owner - you merely quibble now with your goalpost-moving, strawman argument of whether that site owner can publish the material elsewhere or sell it.

Which is WAY off topic from the OP.

It's wayyyy different in the US, i only skimmed but the concluding post for me was http://xenforo.com/community/threads...-2#post-305332 in the US you specifically have to have "transfer of copyright" and you can only transfer copyright of an already created work, when someone signs up to your forum they haven't created a work so the US will ignore that agreement that they consented to prior to posting, however it does seem that you can have a pop up with the submission button for a post indicating that they agree to "transfer of copyright.....blah!" when submitting the post, that said you couldn't do it retrospectively for all previous posts.

Here in the UK (EU) copyright laws are very different and more defined.

I never made any such statement.

It does appear so:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showthrea...58#post2374858

And I attempted to clarify it here:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....9&postcount=43

And you might have missed that post, since the page was turning on this thread, so to speak.

You moved the goalposts and started quibbling about whether the site owner can publish the material elsewhere or sell the material, in context you are admitting that he does otherwise, OWN it.

Selective Reading once again:

There is no sense in arguing with you. Clearly that is all you wish to do.

Would you mind if I stole this?...I mean "borrow" this wording for my site. ;)

Could the TOS include wording to the effect "by clicking "Post reply" you agree to transfer content ownership" or something like that?

If you don't mind me taking you to court over it...;)

Your ToS can have pretty much anything you want in it. As long as the people registering agree to it you are fine. If they happen to break any of your conditions, rules or what not then you have the right to ban them or deny them access to your site or forums.

So yes, you can include that wording as well.

Purely for comparison, here is the relevant portion of our TOS:

And our copyright statement:

As you can see, we want no assumption of liability from the content posted. :D

How do you think that would help you in the OP's case ProSportsForums if your database and content was stolen like his?

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This is actually a very good topic to discuss as long as we are civil about it. In the last couple of months I have seen similar cases with others especially with video game and clan forums and websites.

When these clans end up breaking up or members don't see eye to eye they begin to throw at each other a bunch of mumbo jumbo to try and get the other party to pretty much fold or throw in the towel.

Many people especially those who start up sites and forums for clans have no clue of what responsibilities and legalities they are taking on when they decide to build a website/forums.

It would be a good idea for someone to write up an article or something for those who are starting up a site/forum about what they should be aware about before they go on and build one.

I like this discussion, so lets keep it civil so we can help not only the OP but others who might come across this topic.

The default vBulletin registration agreement reads:

So, did the OP change it?

I am not sure if he did or not, I changed that part on my forums and it reads a little different but I did add the ToS and Privacy Policy to it and extended the window to 400px high.

I changed mine as well. My TOS is a novella. I also have separate copyright statements, privacy statements, and privacy policies. But if I had to prove in a court of law that every member has agreed to those specific terms it would be a challenge.

Oh yeah PSF, that is why the ToS should only be viewed as an agreement between the owner and user(s) , if the user(s) break the ToS they should immediately ban or deny them access.

In the OP's case of course this is just so different and really sucks for the OP, it will be very hard to do something if he is not willing to spend money and time I think.

The point though is that the OP can still run his site with the original name...etc and the serach engines will drop the indexing of the stolen content because it's been dupliacted, anyway, he's nothing to loose fro trying every avenue like a DCMA.....etc, worst they can say is no!

Its also worth noting that since recently Google takes DMCA requests into account with ranking. The more DMCA notices a site gets, the lower the ranking.
But basically the OP can get that whole site out of Google, effectively cutting off their organic search influx.
The duplicate site would still be able to email all members to get it active.