no one leaves on mass like that as a coincidence.

But you said earlier on, if they have 30 top coders and 4 leave, its nothing.........

I think people need to stop worrying and try and give the new guys a chance

All is not lost!! Believe me ;)

I don't think it's the end of vB. At all. vB is a very widely used product, and even though I have my many quirks with why 3.8 STILL has a messy table based layout, the coding and team work behind vB has always been solid.

I do think something is stirring up though. The drama of the leaked vB4 threads, and now several people up and leaving at once? Something smells fishy, no matter what.

I'm not going to speculate, because it could be a number of reasons. However, all of them leaving at once tells me that there is a lot more going on than just coincidence. And correct me if I'm wrong, but up and leaving your career like that, I'm sure it takes a LOT to get to that point. I'm completely miserable at my job.. i feel like I'm the only one who even cares about quality, and I am the only person who gets work done in a nice timely manner.. I'm stuck with dated designs and dated programmers because no one will move forward and progress WITH me.. And yet I'm still here, and I couldn't tell you why.

To actually LEAVE? Pack your bags and leave? And not just you, you and several co-workers? Something has got to be going down.

Might sound strange , and i suppose it sounds a bit odd, but it does happen, The 5 guys that left my place, 1 went to New zealand, One left because his wife had Cancer and the other 3 left because they had new jobs, But as we have over 40 employee's we don't let it worry us.

You'd be supprised why folk leave their jobs, Perhaps they didn't meet their set targets?? Perhaps VB wanted more and they couldn't produce what was required?? Perhaps for personal or private reasons, Perhaps they painted the room blue and they wanted black?? Who knows??

Good Luck to the Guys, let not make this into something thats its not guys;)

You seem prity sure that the reasons they gave for leaving are the absolute truth UK? Im not saying they are and I'm not saying they are not. I am 99% the reason given isn't the reason why they left though. But what makes you think that the reasons kier and co gave was infact the reason?

Let's say for arguments sake that they left because of pay issues or other grievances. Would they have stated those reasons in the announcements? Now I'm betting they wouldn't have. The I'm leaving leaving for better career opportunities is a great way to leave quietly and swiftly.

Anyway. It's not a concern for people that they left, they just don't believe that the reasons they gave is the reason. As a member of the staff you have to believe that and won't say anything different (not that it's a bad thing) but I guess I'm saying that people that have been around vbulletin for these many years know when something isn't right and suspect. They have a little more intelligence than that. ;)

anyway, either way I'm not concerned. I'm sure the new recruits will do their job just as effectively as the last lot.

Shelley i'm not saying anything of the reasons they left, only giving options, I don't think anyones really knows the real reasons they left and it would appear rude to speculate.

All i've seen in this thread is that 4 guys have left VB and all hell has broken out. Why can't people say something positive for a change.

All i'm saying is that folk need to calm down on the theory that something drastic has happened, it hasn't as far as i'm aware.

lets try and not make something so simple, so over complicated ;)

Whatever Reason they've given for their departure is purely confidential between VB and themselves, I can't see why it would be anyones elses business apart from their own.

It's a big deal.

I have mixed feelings about it. When that many people leave a small company, the software and the community will never be the same.

I wouldn't say it's rude Uk. People have the right to be concerned (I'm not one of them) but it's well within their rights as customers who some have purchased scores of licenses. Unless speculation is now being branded as rude then by all means let's stop discussing right now.

But I agree, the staff have their reasons (and entitled to their privacy) but the subject I expect is the future of vbulletin that some members are concerned about. We can both agree that they have a right to discuss a matter close to them. Regardless of that.... I'm not fussed either way. :D I think I may have said that already. :rolleyes:

Since I have been PermaBanned on vBulletin.com because they didn't like my opinion on Internet Brands I guess I'll have to post over here.

Internet Brands is ruining vBulletin. There are so many reasons to avoid using vBulletin due to Internet Brands, ESPECIALLY if you make a living off of running forums like I do or just care about the company you are purchasing software not having a ridiculous advantage to suppress your forum.

I'll be damned if I am going to purchase a forum software from Internet Brands when they are out there buying up my competition. I'm not going to suggest features, provide feedback and fund Internet Brands so that they can better position themselves to compete against me.

I do not trust Internet Brands to put vBulletin and it's customers before themselves and the forums they own.

Internet Brands cares about one thing: Making money. They make their money via forums and now that they own vBulletin they have inside access to tailor vBulletin to their needs and not the majority of vBulletin customers.

It was made very obvious that money was their only objective when they rushed in that last minute feature for vBulletin 3.8. You know that Google Adsense integration that made them money for every new person that signed up for Adsense.

Give me a break. That isn't a useful feature.

Internet Brands has now ran off the majority of the old staff.

I will not buy one more vBulletin license while Internet Brands is in charge of vBulletin. I'd rather take my experience with running forums to another forum software and become a contributor to someone who actually cares about the software and not tailoring it for the needs of their sites so they can improve their stock price.

I'm just waiting for Ray Morgan to come over here and start ruining vBulletins excellent mod community now. Sadly, I have too much money and time into my biggest site so changing to another forum software is not an option.

I generally agree with everything you said
and the adsense thing is a joke, I've yet to suggest to a client to use their built in feature.

vBulletin will continue to sell reliable software, I don't doubt that; however, when such a majority of original staff leave a company they devoted a lot of time and passion into it has to be a big deal.

This is of course all speculative but I am disheartened by all the staff members leaving. It's like going into your favorite bar and realizing that there's a whole new crowd, it'd be ignorant to expect the same atmosphere.

I am waiting for vBulletin 4 - I think that is a fair first assessment of the new staff and environment..

yep, exactly what i said.


I never used it and i wish there's a way to remove it. the same spot where vb set it too. I have it placed so go figure.


Honestly i really don't care what happens !.I see business come and go and some go bankrupt.Running a business is not easy and seeing that a few guys leave in the heat of the moment,something is going on.No matter how you guys sugar coat it.

Actually, vBulletin 4.0 won't be the farest assessment of the new team, but vB 5 will be. All devs gave to the vB 4.0 SVN, so it doesn't truly reflect on the current team.

Well everyone knows Floris stepped down due to IB changing his contract and what seems like not supporting/caring about his medical condition. That seemed to start the avalanche of just about every non-US based Jelsoft employee leaving rather soon behind him.

Scott McVair? left "due to sanity" reasons, and the others have been pretty hush on their reasons. Kerry-Anne I beleive is done in a few days as well there and while purely specualtive I don't think Steve will be to far behind once he's the last of the original staff there.

It pretty much seems that IB either wants to move everything state-side for whatever reason, of the former/current Jelsoft didn't agree with the future vision of vBulletin (also a reason Floris was going to leave soon any way).

so that pretty much will leave Jelsoft up to some new coding/faces of the community starting today. I doubt any one of them introduces themselves or an announcement made about them, and that.

Also, don't count on vB.org being here much longer in its current form. Soon as they finish off with the main product and whatever plans they have going on with that, this place will be the next target of either monetization or simply killed off perhaps.

And you're getting all of this from where?

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...=870249&page=2

Pretty much has it all.

That was an interesting read.

But you need to read this bit too

I think we need to keep a level head with all thats changing, if there are new changes happening then we should trust VB to make the best choice in the long run. I'm sure they have their customers insterest at heart.

Or we can run and shout "Battle Stations" Panic and create a sense of unrest, choice is yours.

I feel we need to give the future of VB a chance, rather than closing in like a bunch of vultures, ready to put the slightest whim into bad light. We need to stop all this negative thinking and saying "I like VB before, when everyone was onboard" its never going to be like that again! so forget it. New Products, New team = Positive outlook for VB.

How about we give them that chance??

Mmmm... He was in jelsoft, and after that comment it makes me and other people cautious about vB's future outlook.

Well - at the same time - there has been umpteen posts about IB being in it for the money - if that is the only reasoning behind all of the recent changes, shifts, resignations, etc. -- then one can logically deduce that is in the best interest of IB to put out a fabulous product. I too found it interesting what Floris said "And I still believe vBulletin is market-leader for a reason. Converting over to free alternatives such as SMF or phpBB or commercial alternatives such as IPB or UBB, honestly feels like a downgrade." --- Ergo - if you are worried about the immediate future of the 4.0 series - then I'd say it's safe to say "don't worry - be happy" --- But yes - One interesting human condition that many of us share in common: worry. I think all the speculation I've seen in so many threads & sites around the net only adds to that. 3 cheers that vBulletin/IB will soon introduce some novel concepts to alleviate all the worry and such, so that we fellow vBNerds can continue to enjoy the most innovative online interactive software currently available :)

Jacquii.

ps -- Hmmmm - I do wonder about some comments made about the vB.org site - Will certainly be interesting to see what actually comes about.

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggg we all doomed :)

well not exactly but what ever happens,happens,simple as.Nothing us poor customers can do about it.Im actually amazed we getting away with even discussing it on this site.

It's a topic that people wish to discuss (there's no reason for this to be closed). It's well within a persons right to speculate/discuss about the future of vbulletin and the direction it will take. With that said, I still believe myself it will remain the no1 forum script and moving onto free or other paid alternatives will merely be a downgrade.

My 2 sites are merely hobby based so whatever direction vbulletin goes won't concern me in the slightest. And, if vb4.0 isn't what I expect or need I'll remain using 3.8.

Regarding Floris thread (on the webmaster forum) clearly it showed there were issues and we can only guess the same with the rest of the teams departure (as I suspected).

Hi there Lasto. :)

Please read that post by floris again. He nowhere states that IB was unwilling to change his contract or respect his medical condition. This was not the issue, and it is useless to debate the reason why other people made a decission if the person is not around to clarify his thoughts. This is all pure speculation.

As for the reasons why others left, they have nothing to do with the decission Floris has made.

Floris isn't here and would not come here to clarify, elaborate on his thoughts. But as a staff member of jelsoft marco, your position is to bring a certain comfort to customers and keep the concern level down to a minimum. To repeat what I said, it's quite well within the customers right to discuss and speculate on the future of vbulletin (with many customers) investing in many licenses they have money tied up on a forum software they have shown dedication and support to for more than a decade, If they didn't speculate then something would be wrong.

Last time I checked (and I do check daily), money doesn't grow on trees and many customers have got vast amounts of cash invested in a forum software they are now showing concerns about and the direction things are taking.

Yes floris is not here to post his view, hence why speculating on his reasons is useless.

Yes you can debate the future of vB/Jelsoft, but discussing the reasons why a member of staff made a decission is useless as this was a personal decission. Furthermore discussions on vB.com/Jelsoft staff belongs on vB.com, not here where nobody of the people discussed is visiting.

I'll repeat what I said again marco. Floris will not visit here to clarify/discuss/elborate on his departure.

Hence it serves no point in speculating here about his reasons.

The whole topic is mainly about the future of vbulletin marco (please try and read that part). The floris speculation is just a miner part of this discussion (not something you should concern yourself about, Unless you are concerned). As useless as it maybe to speculate, it's within the rights of the customers to discuss this. And to elaborate further marco, Kiers departure is a case for concern (not for me) but for some customers. He was lead developer for a long time and the future now lies in the hands of another coder(s), so people (cannot repeat this enough) have a right to be concerned. They want a level of comfort (something unfortunately you cannot provide) knowing that the hands of vbulletin is indeed in the right hands and the future looks bright.

I personally try not to worry about things I have no control over. While it is disconcerting that so many of the original developers have left and I will miss them and their fingerprints on the product, I'm not too worried about the future. I hope I'm not mistaken, but I just find it hard to believe IB would spend the money they spent to purchase Jelsoft only to kill it intentionally. Will it be the same company/product it was?...probably not. Will it be worse or better?...time will tell. It is not uncommon in all types of business to see these kinds of staffing changes when a company is bought out, that I do know.

This IB buying vB is starting to look like Vince McMahon buying WCW only to bury it.

winner, that is the philosophy to go by....

things change, people change, etc, if you don't have the actual power to change what is happening all you can do is sit back and watch it happen.

what is wcw means?

World championship wrestling? I'm guessing but with the name vince McMahon it has to be wrestling related.

Man people read into thing WAY to much. Over the past 12 months, I have read so many complaints about how certain aspects of vBulletin work from Blogs to Community Groups.

How come we can not look at this as fresh blood coming into a company that needs a few new faces that are INSPIRED to create and develop. Pushing the panic button prematurely is always a bad idea until you have some facts in hand.

Calm down peps... As someone stated earlier, there is no way a company will spend the money it did for Jelsoft to see it fold. Hell, I live close to LA maybe I should submit my resume. :)

Fresh blood coming in is being hired by Internet Brands who can't even find the time to properly run their own forums, which is their main business.

I have no faith in Internet Brands. They are terrible at managing their forums.

I dont understand what the big deal is? People change jobs, that is just the way the world works.

This provides jelsoft with the opportunity to get some fresh meat in there along with some new ideas.

A buddy of mine is a full time programmer. He has told me over and over that companies need an influx of fresh people and fresh ideas to stay on top of the market.

We are sensitive about our vB LOL :D

Jacquii.

I have seen tons of people moan about the state of vB with over-loading them with useless and pointless features. But when new staff come in vB get some stick.

They can't win, lol.

TBH, and like I stated in this thread on numerous occasions. I myself am not concerned but then I don't have thousands, 10s of thousands of dollars/pounds etc and so forth tied in my forums. As a hobby, it won't affect me or concern me in the slightest with the new staff structure. I can certainly relate to the people showing concerns though, who have, vast sums of cash invested and making a living from vbulletin. I guess, if the shoe was on the other foot, I may have had a reason for concern but it doesn't matter whether I get bloated forum script from the developers that where, or the developers that are now.

Ain't that why we are here using the members wonderful scripts from here, so we can disable those nasty 3.8/3.7 features that lack functionality/features?

If 4.0 is anything like 3.7/3.8 then the concerns are warranted imo. But that would be speculating so we can only wait and see.

if it is none of your concern, as stated multiple times, why keep posting? how do you know the multiple license owners are concerned or should be concerned? seems to me you're trying to facetiously be the voice of many and end up being the opinion of a few.