that's what we would call a steal. vb.org is just "hosting" releases, they are not the ones who produce them so they can not control their distribution... people have to understand that, and it's way beyond your need to be informed of the install/uninstall process... it's about ownership... people don't care as i see... you are not coders(or you do not care about copyrights).

They have to :)
After all, all those Add-ons/Codes released here are intellectual property of the respective authors; neither Jelsoft nor vBulletin.org staff does hold any rights on it.
So if the author decides to remove all files that's solely his decision really and has to be respected.

vBulletin.org staff is not responsible for you not keeping track of your installed modifications.

ok, you bought a Commodore 64, 25 years ago... the model was still on the market when you bought it, so you thought it would be just great to buy some games for it, and all the possible extensions.

now, you want to use your commodore again, but the joystick is broken... you call at the shop you bought your machine, and they refer you to the Commodore HQ for pieces and service. They say they can not help, and that you will have to go to a flea market to find an old machine for the pieces...

You whinne, you complaint, you fill a grief, and they turn back the regular answer: we can not help, we do not support the engine for 24 years already, sorry...

i personally think they would not let any discussion go after 2 pages of a thread, nor 25 threads in the last year...

so why do you continue?

... and yes, my example is flawed... just apply it as you wish

Would it be possible/plausible to add another setting to the mod submission process that specified "uninstall instructions"? This would be similar to the supported setting.

The instructions could then be added as another upload (text file) that somehow couldn't be deleted by the mod author.

Obviously somehow, instructions should be able to be updated, not sure how but perhaps this could be a start to people on both sides to work together for the betterment of the community.

90% of the releases here are NOW made via the products manager and require no uninstall process... we talk about old hacks that are hard to uninstall...

10% is worthy enough for something like this to be discussed.

Here is another idea:

This site is based on the hard work of volunteers. Admins, moderators, coders, everyone is volunteering their time for the greater good of the community. Why not implement another "program" where volunteers can submit uninstall instructions for modifications that may require them?

Create a new forum that only these volunteers can start new threads in. Set some guidelines, do your best to promote it and leave the rest to the community.

there are still mods that ask for template modifications, or new templates to be made and $CODE to be inserted manually, or files to be uploaded.

all im asking is that there is a system or something where if a file is moved to the graveyard it is noted how to uninstall the thing incase there are suers who have it installed that dont have the original information any longer. why is this such a debate??? its a VALID argument, one that deserves the observation and consideration of the staff here. im not asking for cheeseball smilies to be added here am i? im asking for information to be available to those that have INSTALLED the mod, instructions on how to uninstall it, a reversal tool, what needs to be uninstalled and deleted from the server and if any template edits need to be reverted.

You know, there is nothing to stop you from posting uninstall instructions in the thread for the modifications you have installed. If you do that, then when the modification gets moved to the graveyard, or archived, you can search the thread for your posts and find the uninstall instructions. I'm sure the others in the thread will be thankful that you took the time to post them also.

maybe thats the solution to all this. Tell hack designers to also include the uninstall in the text part of their post, and not just in the attatchment...

That is the correct/best way to modify templates (if template hooks can't be used).

....:down:

And we also have valid arguments - you are not the only one with them. Your suggestion of keeping the files on board have been "heard" and have been rebutted by another argument (the law). Reg's idea does sound good in principle, but if the author decides to remove their modifications, why wouldn't they remove those instructions as well?

Do you care to elaborate on that?

Who do you think is better qualified to write good install instructions - a user who has installed the product and has an interest in making sure there are good uninstall instructions OR some user who has never installed the product? I mean seriously, I thought it was a good suggestion. Right after you install the product, just write down what needs to be done to uninstall it. Then just post it in the thread. Why is that a bad suggestion?

well gee, instead of myself sharing the information of uninstall procedure, maybe i should be knida selfish like the person either requesting the mod to goto the graveyard or movign it to the graveyard if there is a exploit or whatever found, not care, and just keep the information to myself? but that would defeat the purpose of my argument that if data goes missing on our end, and a mod is moved to the graveyard, atleast we will know what we as owners and installers of mods need to do to uninstall the thing

you havent read this thread have you?

if there are users who have installed a modification, clicked install or whatever, and then say down the line the owner removes it, UNINSTALL information should be provided to those that have either clicked installed, or just in general be posted there.

you know what else i thought of when i was making this post....if a coder releases a mod that is just a plugin, 1 file, then it gets installed, and say a few months or weeks down the line its moved to graveyard, we will forget its just 1 simple plugin and not know if there is anything else there we need to worry about. not all mods are released as zip files and have multiple files in there, alot are just the plugins for import. if we know to just remove the plugin, then that small bit of information goes a long way.

soyou mean that instead of being secured by releasing hacks that only you can manage, you would let any member, coder or not, releasing the instructions in some other post, just to avoid you do delete your stuff pathetically?

we see this on a bunch of sites, they take all the hacks here, and re-release them to avoid being deleted...

we call this PIRACY... sorry but you have no more point in this, you just try to find solutions where there are none...

My personal suggestion would be to take responsibility for what you install... test mods before throwing them onto your live site.

what r u talking about?

--------------- Added [DATE]1235585877[/DATE] at [TIME]1235585877[/TIME] ---------------

its not about testing. read the thread.

and keep your site up to date each time you add or update something... not only the core system, but all the hacks you have, they usually update when there is a new version of vB, and they usually get updated when someone find a problem...

--------------- Added [DATE]1235585961[/DATE] at [TIME]1235585961[/TIME] ---------------

looks like you did not read any of the official answers, isn't it?

You *are* being kinda selfish. You come to this site, download the modifications, and expect other people to do stuff that *you* should have done in the first place - kept track of your modifications and made sure you have good notes regarding each and every one of them. That is *your* responsibility - not ours, not the developers, but *yours*. Take responsibility, Gotti, stop trying to push it off on someone else.

oh, btw, when a mod is found with a security risk, it is NOT moved to the graveyard, it is moved to the quarantine forum where the coder can debug his work without deleting it... looks like you missed the announcement 2 years ago...

It is webmasters own responsibility to follow the modifications etc. If you download a modification and install it to your forum , you should always keep a backup of both files and install instructions of the mod.

If you donot do that , there is no meaning to complain.

Seconded.

So, you would rather have us impose several rules on developers so that these items can be placed here. To me, that's more work, as I'm now forced to duplicate uninstall instructions just to get my work released here. I would be extremely averse to the idea! As stated several times, it is the user's responsibility to keep track of it. Copy your install instructions to the server when you install, keep a back up in several places. I can't tell you how many random mod files I had stored around here (my own) that were of various versions and install instructions and such to keep track of them. Now, everything is under SVN so I don't have to...

nah not getting turned around on me, no way.

the idea is to have the uninstall information placed on the mods when moved to the graveyard. either removal of the plugin or whatever. staff can do it or dont, its the suggestion i submitted to this vb.org feedback forum. take it or not. im not gunna argue and debate it anymore, aint getting anywhere obviously. its not just my lost when it happens so whatever.

just close the thread already or delete it, useless.

It's only not getting anywhere because you won't accept the reasons why this isn't really feasible. So you need to accept the reasons and suggestions given to you and move on.

I backup everything in Zip and Rar folders on my Large Hard-drive

Everything i use i keep 2 backup's of, that way no matter what happens here i have my copy

i already did. im over the topic already.

You really seem to be missing the point here. Short of having a time machine to go back in time and download the modifications before they're deleted by the thread starters, how are the staff supposed to do that?

That's obviously excluding the time constraints, which, quite frankly, shouldn't be a staff duty anyway. I'd rather they were moderating the site, not spending hours writing instructions for someone else's modification.

You should take this up with the coders who don't leave uninstallation instructions, not the staff. It's the coder's modification, the coder's decision to delete their mods (barring security issues, obviously) and the coder's failure to leave uninstall instructions.

Aside from providing this (free) resource, Jelsoft and the staff aren't responsible for other people's work and to be frank, that's the way it should be.


If you really want uninstall instructions or backed up modifications, you have both your server and your hard drive. There's no real reason why both should fail and there's also no excuse not to use every opportunity to backup everything, especially as you seem to have such a big problem with this. I have modifications spread across 2 hard drives and my server. There's no reason why you, or anyone else, can't do the same.

anyways, im over the topic. not taking any suggestions from anyone regarding it, go ahead and close the topic or move it to the graveyard. dead issue already

Its a good idea, why doesnt everyone just take a deep breath and realize its for the greater good.

When they first imposed a seatbelt law everyone screamed and hollared...

click-it-or-ticket

If you really want this taken serious by other developers, why not set the example with your products. Quick glance I've found at least one that goes completely against what you want.

Unless things have changed since I dropped off the planet, we are not allowed to say why we left or removed our mods. Uninstall instructions by the author are a good idea though, I agree.

I did not realize that was a vB.org policy. Is it written anywhere or is it something that you got hit with in the past?

I've seen authors leave reasons.... or I'm pretty sure I have seen reasons. But, why do they need to post a reason? I've seen authors simply write "I am closing this project" or similar in the thread. The reason why doesn't matter at all - anyone can leave uninstall instructions which is why I suggested that a user who wants to make sure there are uninstall instructions available just post them themselves in the thread.

There is no such policy that I'm aware of. However, the GY is read only, so you could not post to it after a mod is moved.

i dont write modifications to release, and if i did write any that were plugins, i would leave uninstall info if it were moved to the graveyard. why not?

that's so hilarious to read you GoTTi... you preach for something you're not even able to provide, this become more and more pathetic...

Modifications, templates, anything. They all still need install instructions, yet I have missed the uninstall. Unless I'm mistaken. A wise woman I know always says, "Seeing is believing."

At the time of my departure, it was over some disagreements in how security holes in hacks where handled. I was angry, but for the most part rational and posted a number of suggestions for why I was so upset. The suggestions where not taken seriously at the time, and I was 'warned' that I was not to continue. Ironically, most of those suggestions have now been implemented. I also posted a note in my hacks, basically saying that they were being moved off vb.org due to policy disagreements and could be found on my site blah-blah-blah.com. I was told to remove the note.

So, whatever the official policy is, that is what happened, and not just to me.

I am not trying to stir stuff up - I'm back, and long over it, but someone asked a question and I gave an honest answer.