Where are you getting your nulled vBulletin from? I assure you there are plenty of copies going around without backholes. Just because it's warez doesn't mean it's automatically not secure. I've personally seen copies without back holes going around..I know because I've downloaded them and compared them line for line with a legit version. All most of them remove is the .js call home in the admincp and the step during installation where you have to input the customer number. I've even seen copies floating around that supply you with a customer number to use during installation..I assume whoever released it just modified a certain constant in a .php file. ;)

My point is vBulletin is easy to nullify and anyone that can read the source code can do it in a couple of minutes. Yes there are warez copies with backholes floating around the internet but they are the minority. Most warez groups pride themselves on releasing good software, not crap.

Getting back on topic; I stopped caring about my modifications begin on warez sites ages ago. If it bothers you I advise you to send a DMCA notice and hire a lawyer because you're going to have to do it yourself.. it is your responsibility to protect your own IP if you choose to do so.

You'll never stop the warez scene so your best bet is learning how to work with it. Keep in mind that someone using a pirated copy doesn't automatically mean you lost a customer (assuming you code for money). Most people that pirate wouldn't have bought your software anyway.

Simply...because they can.

They are already free to download here, so what's the problem? You can download them here free of charge so what's the difference if they are somewhere else free?

Because only license holders can download mods here. Essentially by having them on other sites, users of pirated vBulletin have access to them.

I found a site that was redistributing paid works of some coders and warned one coder of what was happening. She, in turn, posted a thread about it warning others that their works were stolen but the thread was censored by a mod because I guess she wasn't supposed to post it. I was on my way to notifying some of the others when I saw her being dressed down about it so it made me back off.

Now, I'm not a coder and I appreciate the hard work of those who put out fabulous work but it seems to me that vb only want to hear about it when their software is ripped. The coders do a lot of work to enhance vb software and it would only seem fair (to me) to at least allow them some way to warn others when the works have been stolen.

You are correct that Jelsoft doesn't "care" that hacks/mods are begin uploaded to warez sites. Well I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't care..when I was an admin here I did all I could to control it and we even went as far as designing a way of tracking who downloaded said files. The reason they don't track them anymore is due to one person (a coder) complaining that the .zip files he was uploading were begin modified on the fly. So if you want to complain about vB.org not begin able to control this problem you have one of your own to blame.

As for the thread in question I didn't see it but I'm willing to bet she posted a link to the site which is a no-no. Even if it was a "pm me for link" type of post I would have deleted it too...

What it comes down to is this; As programmers and designers we are responsible for our own work. So if we want to pick and choose where it is released it's up to us to hire our own lawyers and start fighting these warez sites through the legal system (if that is even possible, a lot of places don't respect copyright laws).

In summary;

1. Jelsoft is only concerned with stopping people who pirate vBulletin.
2. It's up to whomever released the modification to deal with people that distribute their work. Send DMCA notices..hire lawyers...pay court fees...etc.
3. Hunting down the people that upload modifications is useless as there will always been more people to replace them.

Something to think about; Is it worth spending time/money shutting down sites that distribute modifications that were released for free in the first place? Keep in mind that users of such sites have a hard time getting proper support because they can't post here. Also keep in mind that you're not losing anything if your free modification is on a warez site...if anything it's helpful to you because it gets your name out there. The warez scene respects quality code and programmers just like we do here...is a little promotion on a shady site really such a bad thing?

Last but not least; People that use warez software rarely pay for commercial software anyway. So even if one of your commercial modifications is on a warez site you probably didn't lose any money. Heck you might even make some money. A lot of people use warez software to try out things before they buy them.

The point I'm trying to drive home; You gotta learn to live with warez and the people that use it because it/they aren't going away any time soon. The scene is as strong as ever and as long as usenet is still active I don't see it slowing down anytime soon.

But I wasn't complaining about vb not wanting to control the problem. Even with my uncoder spidey senses, I know that's not a possibility because of the infinite status of the information superhighway. My thing was that a coder should have been able to warn others that their work was being pirated like that, and yes I do believe she posted the link although as yourself, I didn't see the actual thread because it all happened too quick. Some of the works that were distributed were items that were NOT free, such as skins and other programs I saw offered on other sites for pay. I know people like getting stuff for free and well, I'm not generally the one to kick sand on free things, I was just thinking that the coders should be able to sound an alarm. That's all.

I'm sure Jelsoft is concerned about sites that create warez sites to distribute vBulletin software and its modifications. If they had billions of dollars they would go after them, but as it is they use the money they do have to put out a good product.

Policing the internet is not Jelsoft's directive... If Jelsoft had the resources I'm sure they would make a good effort. Hell, my styles are currently on warez sites and I'm not happy either, in fact it pisses me off! but what can I do?!?

In short, the internet needs a new set of laws if it is to be governed (these laws should have been set in the first place by countries).

Just my opinion.... :confused:

This... Fighting Piracy is already one of the single largest costs of the company. Devoting more resources would only increase prices.

However if a site is reported on the forums for Piracy, the link is entered into the anti-piracy database with the thousands of other URLs under investigation currently and removed from the forum posting. This is so the offending site doesn't get advertising and the reporting individual maintains some sort of anonymity so there are no reprisals against them.

Please keep the thread on topic, thanks!

Very good point Brad,I never though of it that way.I knew they would download it for free,but you are right,they wouldn't buy it either :)

no mods or styles are safe if added to vb.org :(
if you look down the member list, you'll even find members that have the word "warez" in their username :eek:

and ya wonder how the hacks get out :erm:

Just to clear 1 thing up: regardless if Jelsoft would want to address warez sites offering modifications. They can not. They are not the copyright holder of the work and have no say over the sites it is distributed on. The only person who can take any (legal) action is the copyright holder.

There are thousands of sites that offer warez content. Posting the link of each such site would only end in endless postings of links to warez sites. This is not soething we want or need. Of a coder doesn't want his work on warez sites, do a simple search on google or such for your work, it will result in a better list of sites distributing your work then any links posted in a thread on vB.org will have.

You are more and more acting like a troll. You are now posting messages about this, reporting posts, complaining to jelsoft that we allow such a username, PM'ing staff for at least 2 months because there is 1 member with the word "warez" in his username. There is nothing in our rules that prevent such a username and we will not remove it only because he has such a name. So please stop your trolling behaviour as it won't change anything.

was that a joke? a troll being passionate about anti-pricy or stopping scammers.... k guess you got me :)
You know darn well there are several members here that have warez sites.
I have had 100's sign up on my site, show me a link to their profile here on the ORG and they show me a link to this website and GUESS WHAT!! They have pirated wares on it..

Glad you can sleep at night knowing that YOU LET the company you work for, lose more and more money. I guess I just carry a bit more respect and honor for the work I put out, and the companies I've always worked for. :rolleyes: Don't worry.. I wont waste my time reporting scammers and wares owners. I know nothing will happen.

I ban these users, without a second chance to steal any styles posted on my forum.

Don't even get me started on the way's this site lets scammers and pirates get away scott free. :eek:

scott towels ?! FREE ?!

i want some, i want a ton !!!

LOL, and I thought I was the only one.

I tested out a nulled vb and paid for legal one.

The only thing that sucked is paying money for "something that you already had."
It may sound stupid but it hurt. I had to also buy vbseo.. so $350+. I'm glad to have done the right thing. I love VB and I'm glad that I can help support it.

Brad, just because you think there is no backholes, that isn't quite right. There's always a backhole in every script that has some kind of advanced processing system...

If it's nulled, chances are the script kiddies that nulled it left a backhole to hack their own software and gain control of the board that they didn't make. I've seen it numerous times.

[high]* CodingMonkey will not be replying anymore to this topic - it's becoming stupid.
[/high]

I did the same thing and got caught... But my intention was paying for a license I just wanted to run it for a month and see if I could get everything working properly



but who cares about piracy considering if you have pirated mods/vbulletin half of them are bad code which can mess up sites and the support for pirated vbulletin on the internet apart from vbulletin sites is so poor so at the end of the day they aren't really getting anything


and then they have to request everything from someone who has a license, I think there should be a more secure system so people can't do things like this, like enter customer number to install mod :)


at the end of the day it is always going to happen so there is only so much vbulletin can do

And what about the people that you've added to your licensed account? For them to have access to the scripts here they would need to know the license holders acount id which poses extra sercurity risks to the software you've bought.

Attaching a license to a user here does not mean that you give access to account IDs. It is paired by email, you must know the email for you that they added and authorized.

Piracy of anything, including modifications, is bound to happen. All I can say is I wish people didn't do that, but that's just the way it is. I don't see piracy ever stopping, same as with I don't see general crime stopping anytime soon as well.

I know that KK, what the guy is proposing is to implement additonal sercurity by having users here download content by inserting their customer number. And anyone added by e-mail to a persons license would also need to insert that licensed members customer number to download content here. Firstly, just to download content here it would pose additonal sercurity risks if somene is added to your license via e-mail. And secondly,I wouldn't trust this site holding my customer number and lastly, it's not your content and/or jelsoft to implement this suggestion.

what I'm saying is, the people listed on your license would need to know your customer number if content could only be downloaded by inserting your customer number.

I guess I missed that post, in that case, I would be highly against implementing such a system.

[/high]
Run away from the argument if you want but it doesn't change the fact that I am right. There are plenty of warez copies floating around without "back holes" in them. Anyone can confirm that by downloading a warez copy and comparing it to a legit copy from the member's area with Beyond Compare.

You obviously don't spend much time around the scene (which isn't a bad thing). If you did you'd know that most real deal groups pride themselves on releasing good software. On that note most real deal groups wouldn't waste their time on "cracking" vBulletin anyway..there is really no challenge in it after all.

What you're getting are second hand warez copies (someone took a good release and placed a backhole in it) or something released by a shady group that isn't well known (because if they were they wouldn't risk their reputation on releasing crap).

they always come out with backdoors/viruses etc to frighten people to not use warezs versions.
Ive used nulled versions before and never had any problems and as brad says in the scene there are respectable groups who pride themselfs on what they do and if there was backdoors then it would`nt be to long before someone found them.
Anyway we getting away from the intial thread which is why are vb.org getting ripped :

Well it like everything - we get ripped off big style on here and what happens - nothing
Same as when people copy hacks from here to somewhere else.

Live with it is the attitude i think.

Perseverance is the way to go lasto. There's absolutely nothing wrong with sticking to your guns despite what anyone says. When the day draws to a close you'll gain a lot more respect despite the feeling of being worn, torn and thrown to the dogs. Am I making much sense? probably not though I know what I'm trying to say.

Ps. Nice sig. :)

with some treacking down i think i found AAA webhosting provider

Malaysia WebHost (i tracked this webhost down according to the whois info on their site i just tracked the nameservers down and it lead to this host..

http://www.tm.com.my/business/small-...pn-premier.asp

and according to this they might not be so safe after all considering malaysia does have copyright laws

http://www.lawyerment.com.my/intelle...opyright.shtml

just some info that i have tracked down by research incase someone wants to try and stop these fools

ya know, you worked for nothing... all these informations are well known to everybody, and spreading them on this forum would help nobody...

actually, the AAA is not a problem here, as the only thing they do is re-release what is supposed to be free...(ok, if you do not count the paid scripts)...

they are not ripping the work of others for profit, they do not lie to others saying it's their own work, and they do not try to invent a new world...

the problem comes when we see a coder who steal someone else's work and ask to be paid for it. I just had someone paying a fortune for one of iTrader's addon that was in the graveyard... the guy who did that is the one who is to be pointed at... because all these addons are for free on my site, and i never charge for them.

Nexy, simply because the scripts and graphics are free doesn't mean they aren't doing it for money. With the amount of modifications they steal from here they can demand donations (which they do). You think your work (generally speaking) is any better than the person who is providing it for free. And lets not forget, you deal with the AAA to have them not distribute your scripts which kinda explains your response in a nutshell in your opinion that it's not a problem.

What you should have said it's not a problem for you personally because you have negotiated with the staff/admins.

Your word is not gold, nor is it final and if somebody wants to press to get AAA kicked off their host or sue they are very much entitled to do so despite your own personal opinion.

Yes, I read over there, and have had attempts by them to steal my styles and bumped into numerous threads of yours gloating to other members about being protected. It's nice when it doesn't happen to you, your opinions can span a wider spectrum and point out to others how wrong they are.

hum, Shelley, i would say as a mirror, that your word is not gold either... you just point at me, but i'm not pointing at anybody on my side... and basically, my opinion worth what it worth, i'm not telling that i'm the reincarnation of a god here...

i had a deal, maybe... that does not mean nobody would steal my stuff... actually they did last week, 20 minutes after i released iTrader, a guy there copied it to their site... does that mean i had a deal?!... nope.. that just mean that what he have done was not worthing a panic.

you can not be happy with someone steal your work. i mean, nobody can be happy... does that mean you have to focus 24/7 on piracy?... jut close the shop and there will be no more. do your job, do it well, and the people that worth focussing on, your real clients, will be there to pay for your efforts and worth. there will always be pirates, there will always have someone stealing others ideas... just think, China sent some guys in space 2 months ago, just because they wanted to. they are now heros in their country... 40 years after the USA... does that mean the USA have to bail them for the ideas the chinese stole for the trip?

i personally don't care if the guys there steal my work and have donations for the scripts... even if they rename the files, drop the credits, etc... because the one who download the results are unable to give a penny for the job, they would not pay me more if they come to my site, because they would not pay for it.

it's an american way of thinking to focus on profits. i personally prefer to be paid for the respect and great exchanges between the client and the coder... i hate dirty money, so having credits where the things are pirated is not interesting for me... they can drop my names, its even better for my reputation.

you don't see things the way i see them, that does not mean my way is wrong.

this happens all over the place
even paid mods with small memberships
I don't think there is anything the Org can/will be able to do about it

Just share your work with everyone, include a readme file with links to your site and info installing, and just maybe, a few of those pirates will turn into good members and visit your site.

They're only disableing the the customer authen code and anything that requires its info to work and removing the linkbacks and data thats sent to vbulltein.com's databses. If vbulletin really wonts to stop pirating make software that depends on authen so pirates wold literally need to re-code the entire software itself just so it will work or create an auto locking mech that checks for hidden codes to see it there there using preg_match(); or something aong those lines and if it returns false it closes the site down by removing the database. That simple nullers shouldnt be allowed access to stuff us members pay for. Who cares if they lose there database and member info, certainly not me I know someone from a site I joined who posts nulls to some sites and hes a member here. I dont konw his username on here or the nuller site(or the site he does it on) but one of the guys I work with has posted my templated edits on one of those site. I feel that vbulletin security needs to get beefy if vb is to survive the nullers. There even nulling dreamweaver and adobe isnt doing anything I payed 200 dollars with student discount nullers need to be shutdown and fast.

actually you did not pay to access vb.org, you paid for the software you use, and though here, your license that you paid 160$ is not nulled by anybody, even cracked, it's all yours, nobody else can use it... that's the only security Jelsoft need to apply on what you are refering to.

for the Xth time, vb.org is a privilege, not a gain when you pay your software... you may loose that privilege, but you only have to behave properly and nothing will happen. it's a per-person basis management.

piracy?... i can count at least 50 nullifiers who release their own version of vBulletin 30 seconds after each release... if that's not one of them, someone else will do it, pathetically. vB is not costly enough, people can renew anytime, and they can share their gain anyway. look at Esvon, which is 650$ for the minimalist package... i'm not rating the script, but try to find it on the nulled market... hackers just don't want to purchase it just to leech.

I'm not focusing on anything other than the facts. Your reply is vague (or would appear vague to people when you stated that a certain site isn't stealing if the work here is posted as a free piece of code/graphic. You stated it wasn't a problem, I stated it wasn't a problem for you because you dealt with them. And on occasions the community told you were to go, they were going to post your works regardless. I'm just opening the discussion behind your opinions on how this was deemed not important and to state another fact that they do make money from stealing peoples works. Content is valuable, and last time i checked they have just that tons of stolen content without the permission of the authors which in my books is stealing. You can distract from the facts or side track this thread and post additional jargon but they are stealing and making money off peoples works here.

I'm not questioning your motives or how you conduct your business, just simply simplifying the reasoning behind your comment prior to the post which I responded to which is not this post but the post prior to this post. hmmm yeah, bit of a tongue twister but you'll get your head around it. It's late and it's all work work work. And a little more helping of work.

And the comment about you not caring about them stealing your work. I'm sure that's not the case otherwise you wouldn't have dealt with the staff at this site you simply just gave up and deemed it a waste of time to pursue any action, I'm sure we care a little but trying to avoid this is merely a waste of time so I do agree with you on that which you knew. I'm sure there is a few white lies in that response but who am i to judge and I can't be bothered quoting each and everything you said because we both know that's just a sidetrack ploy.

People care, you simply don't. End of subject as far as I'm concerned.

i do care about is as i and a new vb designer on the vb scene and guess what they already tryin to rip my **** so im doing everything i can and just to help fellow designers out there...

I have an idea you can have your theme live on the site for view without having to fear of them being ripped....and i will tell you how ....and i plan on doing this myself.. What i have come up with is this when u design you or theme make 2 copies of it and 2 copies of the coded version as well.. one version will be a total leigt version in which your customer base gets and the one on the preview will have a transparent( but clearly readable ..watermark over the entire theme... that way u can still see the live preview in action but...if they try to rip it they will get a theme with water marks all over it..... so in a sense the ripping of the theme would be useless...

i think it will work but not 100% but i think that will crack down a bit on those idiots..maybe slow em down ...now if your a designer that does not know how to add this water mark contact me and i will be glad to make a short video tutorial on how to do this(but im sure if you can design a theme u should be abel to figure it out)

alright, let's stop the you said-she said drama...
it's getting off-topic

thanks

the problem with your technique, Xphusion, is that the rippers usually don't bother with the watermarked images, 75% of a theme is without images, and most of the others are easily replicated. what the "kids" want most is usually the structure of your forum, they can handle the images, as you've done when you created yours...

everything that is "seen" on the net can be replicated, and if it's visual, nobody can really protect you, because lawyers now give the reason that you gave access to your site so the leechers could be inspired by it. the logic of copyright is not broken if they are just inspired (what lawyers say because they are lazy)... the respect is not part of copyright. i know a lot about this, my wife is teaching Arts, and they always have debates about what can be copy-protected and what not... if you inspire yourself from Van Gogh, you do not break it's art's copyright... even slightly inspired is not the original, and if you did not painted in the same technique as Van Gogh, not using the same colors or paint, this is not wrong, UNTIL you try to sell it and say it's a pure Van Gogh... on the other side, you would break the copyright if you leech his painting and apply your name instead of his...

ya know what, code, design, inspiration, everything is based on what you think is good or bad... when you purchase vBulletin, you do not pay for the code inside the files, you pay for the work the guys are putting to create the engine... because the code is PHP, free and copyprotected... so it's all up to you to evaluate the value of the work they put in... leechers give it no value at all, and that's where the stick tongue the most... i know at start that they do not respect me or anyother here, so why bother... i'm sure at 99% that their mothers do not know.

Interesting last paragraph Nexy. Couldn't agree with you more. Where some people will give up and stop releasing My way of thinking is to release. I wouldn't say my work is valuable but then I wouldn't say it's any more worthless than anyone elses. An author will always or in most case put a high value on their work, they spent the time in creating it and it came down to their imagination, creativity and that's where I think you miss the point. When you create something you have created it from scratch, you've developed it with months sometimes years of your time to see it grow and evolve into something your proud of and whether you agree or not when someone comes along and makes a duplicate copy/ steals or decides to distribute it without your consent it's stealing no matter how much you sugar coat it.

With regards to re-creating images, watermarking them is not a deterrent or atleast not a good one. As stated, they can easily be re-created then implemented to the style. Is copying stealing? I'd still say yes, I know if someone copied any of my images i would know, I intentionally make graphical errors in my images so only i know and will know if someone purely copied it or stole it and used it as part of their style to distribute and sell off which they do and I regard this as stealing also.

Most people don't want to work nowadays, they don't want to put in the time into creating something that would benefit the community they want an easy solution to a way of either making money and/or receiving credit when in some cases credit shouldn't be applied to this group.

Hmmm Yeah. Rambling hour.

hey hey, i just said to my wife 5 minutes ago that i had to work for $$$ today, unavailable for painting the walls...

btw, Joe, it's a debate, not a drama...
[high]* nexialys will avoid Joe for the next hours![/high]