How would it? They can post in the general vBulletin forum and seek help. The paid requests forum is just messed up, and scammers are signing up because they know they can get away with it. Like nexialys said, do you even see the coders who help in the "Paid Requests" forum helping in the non-paid request forum....NO! You don't! They are just waiting until they are told by one of you post in the "Paid Request" before they too accept the inevitable and get SCAMMED!

i know that a lot of projects suggested in the not-paid requests are evaluated to be big projects that would cost a lot of time and efforts, but then again, there is already a lot of requests that are not requesting more than 2 minutes of code that are posted in the paid forum because everybody is lazy without cash at the end right now...

some people will always require that everything is coded for free, and we always have coders who require that they get paid for their codes... we can't avoid that... but as Princeton indicate, working on requests here and giving positive results will bring you a good reference, and a portfolio too... because i know that a lot of the actual releases on the Mods section are created due to requests here.... and most of the time, in the paid requests we have no possibility to release exclusive works...

With the feedback system, how would you stop a coder getting his friend to create a fake paid request thread, and then saying the coder completed the job perfectly when actually he did nothing at all?

That way a user could have perfect feedback and still rip people off.

that's what we've seen lately though... someone asked all his small clients to post a review in the very old threads they created, blah blah...

You can't, but it's better than nothing. The "Service Requests" forum was set up to aid members, and it does that for the large majority, but until something is done about the bad apples, this site will get a bad reputation.

How long are we gonna beat this dead horse?

Someone will always complain. If we closed the forum - someone would complain. If we keep the forum open - someone will complain. If we implement a feedback system - someone will complain that no one hires them because they have no feedback.

We can't make everyone happy at the same time...

close vBulletin.org, everybody at IPB will be happy...

see Hanson, everybody SOMEWHERE can be happy.. lol

There already is a feedback system: Reply to your Paid Request thread with your experiences with the person who took the job.

If we would see that this feedback "system" is used on most Paid Requests threads, then we would start to think about adding a specialised feedback system in order to make it more user friendly. I really don't see why staff should implement something if members already don't use the tools that they already have.

It has to come from both sides, you can not expect staff to do everything for you. Start by showing us that people are really interested in a feedback system by using the tools already available first.

Discrimination due to girth size is much worse, mate :D

Now you tell me who actually does that? Most the people who come here are NEW to the internet, let alone forums.

I'm not saying that staff should do something, you haven't even done anything, anyway -- apart from create the forum, which takes...10 seconds.

How much more *interest* do you want -- people are voicing their opinions here...and most are saying they want a feedback system. Read the thread..

Like I've said, there is iTrader....that will NOT take very long to install.

Hum, Jase2, i think you missed the sempiternal discussions we had here for years about support, commercial ads, ranking and rating of coders... actually, Marco have done a lot in the last 2 years here about giving voice for you and the others who are releasing work here...

please refrain your attacks, they are not to be toward what the guys here are doing or not -- because you have no history here yet... you can discuss the topic without flaming anyone.

nice words Nexia ... :)

PS. we wanna Nexia 4 Mod! :D

thanks Kurtz, but i personally refuse to be mod or admin on sites i do not own... lol

nexialys it is called 'having your say'. I don't even know Marco, why would I personally insult him? Can't see anything in my post that his insulting him.

To be honest, I don't care if I have no "history" here....that is just totally out of context. Hmm....no-one has got a sense of humour like us brits lol.

I'll stay out of this one...anyway!

This is intended to point to the staff, isn't it?!... and the one you were answering to was Marco... so indirectly pointing to Marco, as anyway he is the manager of this site... so he manage nothing if the guys did not do anything...

anyway, this part of judgement is related to your "no history"... you are new here and you judge for the last months you're here, but you know nothing of what have been done in the last 6 years... i've been here from the start, and i know that a lot was done for the coders, developpers, protecting people, protecting clients from scammers etc... (ok, sometimes it was not obvious until i hit the floor, but hey, i'm the big head here [below boofo for sure!])

You can always use a site like rentacoder.com - if you both sign up - the job can be down - you pay the fee to the site and they keep it in escrow - and they will not release funds until the results are good for both parties.

You can post the job - then have the person from this site join - work out the details and boom your all set.

Well if you're going to play the "I've been in this community longer than you have" card, then let me put my cards down. I've been here before you, I've seen it from both the staffs view and the publics view, and other than trying to educate buyers/sellers within that forum, and occasionally intervening in disputes nothing has been done to stop this from happening. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, because quite honestly short of a coder feedback system, I believe nothing else CAN or could have be/been done. And that's what we're suggesting here :)

There is no validity to this statement. Just because people don't use the system that is in place, which IS NOT A SYSTEM, it's posting in the same thread as your request. Does not mean that people won't use a rating system or feedback forum specifically.

I mean let's say I'm a new customer and want a new code, how in anyway do I search through the paid requests forums for ratings of the coders that were hired? There is no good way to search that. Therefore making the current "system" as you call it, useless.

yeah,. i did not play that game at all, i was just indicating that from someone just here for some month, he could not say "i've see all and i'm not happy"... and btw, do not look at the join date, i was coding hacks on vb 1.0rc

what about those customers whom we take...and they start cusring us saying this that...when we dont want to do their works...due to their wrong behaviours...people should understand both sides too...most of them put one work while hiring and start adding more works later....

veeery simple!
Let's pay for this to be done, or for this thread to be closed :D

what you mean like raising donations for get this done ?

raising donations for big project is a mess... i faced that 2 years ago here on vb.org... a bunch of guys willing to pay in team for a webcam manager inside vb... they all paid their due, and i provided the script... and then, the project starter is gone crazy and started to threat for sueing everybody in the project because he wanted the exclusivity of the script....

that was hilarious... for 5 months they beated the hell of themselves just for exclusive rights... they lost it all, as Jelsoft released 3.5 and i refused to upgrade the script...because of the fight.

Hi edenx,

Let me know what type of modules you need and I'll help you out for free when I get some time. It makes sick to think about somebody using this community to steal money from members.

Vbulletin Staff:

What are the requirements to be able to reply to a thread in the paid request forums? I tried to reply to his original thread and found out that I do not have permission.

Is nice to hear history :) I love the subject...

So the name of that hack/mod [the camera one? ;)]

p.s. I didn't mentioned raising, I meant: every major attempt to do something big got rip apart from many different point of views, as money rules most of our lives, is a method suggestion to settle this... but personally I don't think we need here a system like that, There are PHP/MySQL Coders for hire anywhere...

I not staff but I think I know answer .
only thread starter can reply in that section .

If that is true, thats one mistake (IMO) right there. It makes it hard for him to even prove that he got ripped off if there is not a post in the thread showing that a deal took place.

It is most likely done to prevent bidding wars, but this should be reconsidered. You are asking people to contact the thread starter in private. Allowing the deal to take place in a public forum may make some think twice before ripping people off.

Unless they are honorary positions.

--------------- Added [DATE]1213486092[/DATE] at [TIME]1213486092[/TIME] ---------------

We have been here for a while and seen a lot of changes both good and bad. ;)

Only staff (and the thread starter) can reply to a thread in the paid request forums. If you are interested in bidding on a project you will need to contact the user via PM or email. :)

Thanks,
Roms

I disagree with this completely. It isn't time, it's interest. They don't want to have to investigate anything. I mean you people must be under the assumption that even though a ton of projects are "listed" in there that all of them are filled, and coders are working here 24/7 on projects. The staff is not that busy here, and not only that, only rare times will complaints be brought up, and investigations have to be taken place.

I mean hell, here is an example of abuse. I got bad ratings on all of my graphics I submitted, ALL ON THE SAME NIGHT, after a thread was made asking for the "type" of graphics that I had submitted. I think it was done by the lone competing designer, and yeah, I think it was petty and trivial and never made a complaint to the staff. Why? Because I don't really care if other people like them or not, or give me bad ratings. I made them for free, they took a whole damn week, I looked at all of them on my board and I tend to be a pretty picky person, so I think they look alright. Anyways, I never made a complaint.

Pssh, so what I'm saying is after my mini-rant is that many people won't make complaints. But other things could be done. Like in the specific feedback forum, YOU CAN'T put a rating on a thread, until you've replied to it. OR we could require all users that post feedback of coders to supply an attachment of the code/product that was made IN APPLICATION, (( not hard code)) so that everyone can verify it's a valid job, AND that person has a right to give a rating to the coder.

The real issue is everyone is afraid of negative feedback, and negative feedback has to be allowed. I mean from guru, I got 8/10, 7/10 service, the one time we used a coder here we got good service 9/10. But still, if someone did not fulfill the details they should get what they deserve.

---------------------------------------------------------

In all honesty I cannot believe this place hasn't been sued yet. I mean you can stand behind the "we are not offering the service" all day long, but you allow for the interaction of prospective client/dealer relationships to foster and you dedicate a section of your website for this specific purpose. So to try and backslide and say "hey...it's not our responsibility or fault", are you sure? Because you allowed people to join and your site allowed a scammer to join, and you supplied the medium for which they could interact and in turn someone got ripped off.

It kind of makes you wonder, if it's not necessary for escrow, why do the other sites use it?

Even if vb.org never was sued, the other thing I'm surprised on is that no one has ever tried subpeoning for the IP address and information of a user they wish to take to court.

After all these years you think it would have happened by now.

A feedback system with ratings would actually protect this website in saying, "hey, the person viewed the user ratings of the coder, they made the decision to buy". So if someone has no ratings, pssh, its' completely the clients risk as this website has no information on the new coder applying for the job.

--------------------------------------

I disagree even further with the stupid rule that only the thread starter can respond. Not only open up competition on bidding, but jeez, when multiple admins come here, we can't even reply in our own requests because the other admin made the thread. It's annoying.

---------------------------------------

Lastly making a feedback forum, with a description, and rules would take 15 minutes flat.

With 15 more minutes on some specifications in the admin cp, or some very basic coding for advanced things like "require an attachment" or "require post before rating".

I think of VB.org as Unsecured at Use At Your Own Risk, and while I like the members here and ironically have had good luck with coders, due to the management of the system, this is my last resort for hiring a coder.

Don't be insulted, some of you are great, and while you might get hosed sometimes to, protecting and insuring your customers is number 1. Because without customers, you have no business.

Thanks for your time,

I'm done

Legion of Angels

vBulletin.org isn't here as the site legal background that will protect our members in that way. As we have the forum, we allow our members to list jobs and find a coder. It is up to the client to do research (even I admit it is kind of hard as it stands) and chose the best coder. The business is taken into private as we are not here to manage the transaction.

The staff are run by volunteers who have "lives" outside of vBulletin.org and cannot devote 24/7 to this site. And just because you don't see staff actions, it doesn't mean we aren't busy.

Nice Edit.

I never said you weren't busy, I'm busy, I know what it's like to run a forum since i obviously do, so no need to try and patronize me.

However, the changes that I've suggested, whether the best choice or not, are fast and will work. It's not like it'd take 5 weeks to implement.

Hold a vote in the staff forum, thats what we do, 7 days on all decisions, then implement. Sitting around here discussing things for pages upon pages, and this ain't the first time we've had this discussion shows a complete lack of action by the staff.

And I'm sorry, but I don't care too overly much if you're volunteers or not, so are my staff members and I appreciate the work they give, but MOST if not ALL vote, while I and ONE other person implement. So granted there are few workhorses, but everyone is keen on voicing there opinion and the need to fix problems as they arise.

This is a problem, and one you people haven't fixed for quite some time. It's time to do something about it.

Thanks,

L E G I O N

Yeah, thanks Roms. But staff discussions are held all the time. The administrators are all extremely busy as of right now. While I am not meaning to patronize you, but assumptions were made without solid proof, which cannot be obtained by you. But, if any system was implemented, I garuntee there would be a staff discussion.

Also, this site has what I would call "unique challenges" when implementing a feature. The best interest of the goal of this community needs addressed, as with most other sites I have been staff on, will implement features because they are wanted and won't neccessarily benefit the community as a whole.

quick question :

vbulletin.org staff have Discussions about members feedbacks post in this section ?

Just a quick question:

Why is it a problem to add a subforum to the Paid Service request forum called "Feedback" with the same permissions that currently exist in the Paid Service Request forum? A user can create a thread that only they and staff can reply to.

There seem to be two arguments against this kind of addition:

1) It would be too difficult to moderate/control.
2) It would undermine the site's roots as a free coding community.
3) User's currently do not update their service request threads, therefore there does not appear to be a desire to post feedback.

The first issue is true to a small extent. However, such a simple feedback forum would be only marginally more difficult to manage than the status quo in which feedback is mainly "hidden" in updated service threads.

The second issue is basically a mute point. The unpaid modification request forum was demoted to a subforum, and the Paid Service Request forum exists. Both of these details have undermined the purity of vBulletin's title as a free modification community. Like it or not, it is now also the best place to hire talented freelancers familiar with vBulletin.

The third issue is also valid to a certain extent. User's do not consistently update their threads with feedback. However, the underuse of feedback systems is fairly common on many sites in which trade/hiring occurs. Also having a clear location for user's feedback to be heard will promote, rather than discourage clients to "follow up" on their experiences.

Finally, the goal of the feedback forum is very conservative: stop serial scammers. Right now when clients post a paid service thread they have no way of easily checking to see if a coder is a known scammer. Having a feedback forum will make it absolutely clear where a client ought to check before hiring.

Um, yes you did.

As previously said, the staff here are volunteers, who have busy lives (and other forums) away from vb.org.

I dont know how many times or different ways we can say this, but there are no plans at the moment to either close the SR forum, or add any sort of feedback system, and whatever you may think, this has been discussed endlessly by the staff behind the scenes.

Seriously, pride a little hurt because of a joke?

Give me a break.

I didn't say it unequivocally that you weren't busy at all, I said "not that busy". Nor do I care to hear this "who have lives outside of here"...for your information, I've heard that from like 10 years ago when I found my first forum and a discussion that touched on staff activity came up. Just so all of you staff here know WE ALL HAVE LIVES OUTSIDE HERE TO!

So it's not like you're telling us something we've never heard before or don't experience ourselves.

It's just amazing if time has been wasted endlessly discussing this, why nothing has been done. I mean considering the fact that in a few months now I've seen this same thread reoccur, and reoccur, and reoccur.

About time to do something, yes?

Oh there is no plans for a feedback forum, here is a hint, make a plan.

Admin CP > Forums & Moderators > Add New Child Forum > Parent Forum > Requests For Paid Services > Moderator = who cares

^ how's my plan look? I just timed it, it takes like 1 minute 43 seconds to do this whole thing.

1:43... you're slow, LoA.... it takes me less than 20 seconds to create a new forum with moderator.. lol

You're slowing down, Nex. ;)