Ohh, i already started a new one. :mumbel:

LOL @ Lottis

Im getting confused.:confused:

Agreed. It's not my place. It is, however, the place of a moderator to do exactly that. I merely stated my agreement with the administrator's post to "get back on topic". My complaint was that so many threads go off-topic here that it is nearly impossible to follow-through on anything. The original thread didn't need any "lightening up". It was a good thread that was immediately hijacked into off-topic nonsense. That seems to be the norm with all "Site Feedback" threads. Someone has a legitimate idea or complaint, and rather than addressing and discussing it, we get either 1) pages of one-liners or 2) personal attacks.

I mean, the vBulletin software we all know and love has moderation features for a reason, and we all have moderators on our sites. At least on the sites I moderate, the site owner didn't tell me "whenever there's a serious post, a negative criticism, or a post that goes off-topic, your job is to jump in there and act silly!".

I don't want the power to tell people where or what to post. I do want the staff here to exercise that power when necessary, rather than being part of the problem. Amykhar and I definitely do not see eye-to-eye on some things (such as the private Coders' Forum), but I applaud the way she stepped in and split this thread up. Better late than never!

Play all you want... I just hope that when you do, and the playing is off-topic or disruptive to the thread, that a moderator will quickly correct the situation.

no doubt Lottis. Now we have thread police. Don't you dare have any fun, or do any kidding around or teasing on these threads, because sure enough, it'll be either deleted or the thread will be closed and the "silliness" split off to another thread.

I stated in another thread today that I was in support of the staff here 100%, but after seeing the BS happening in the past hour or so, that support has diminished greatly.

Like noppid said in the closed thread... it's no wonder that staff here is fleeing. Add to that, the fact that y'all just lost noppid, one of the best coders, mentors, helpers you have... and I see not such a good future for .org

sad

Man, you and I are diametrically opposed on this one. And you know it isn't personal, since we get along great on the other site. There is a lot wrong here, I'll agree. The site is disorganized, the best coders discussion can't be seen by everyone, there is a "hacker club" mentality, etc.

The one positive thing I've seen recently, which gives me hope for the site, is that the staff is finally, actually, doing thread moderation!

What's wrong with thread police?? I'd much rather have good thread police than the anarchy that's been the norm.

I know I've been negative here, but here's something to be positive about. Thank you very much, amykhar, for policing this thread. Keep up the good work. Split threads. Keep them on-topic. Delete personal attacks. Three cheers for the thread police.

Ohio, I am the queen of off topic antics. The original thread was cleaned up though because the original topic was totally lost in the other stuff. Sometimes, threads have to be split. I'm sure you've split a thread or two at your site if it's active at all.

well damnit........I don't want to stay on topic, i hate that.........I also don't have a mentor now.......aughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

"I'm sure you've split threads..." All the time. Actually, I don't let them get off-topic in the first place. I'm ruthless ;).

It can be tough (note, I'm trying to stay on the "off-topic" topic), since on one hand casual conversation between members does help build the community feel. On the other hand, it makes it very frustrating for new members, or potential new members who find a topic through a web search. They end up wading through pages of humor they don't understand from people they don't know, when all they really want is information the thread is supposed to contain. Sloppy and unprofessional.

My philosophy has always been to keep threads high-value and on-topic, and to keep the humor and casual conversation in a "lounge" area.

lol....

Well, you got your way now so why don't you go over there an play and let us grown-ups have some fun here?

Actually my site is quite active, and no, I've never split a thread. In my experience, they almost always get back on topic eventually, and I see nothing wrong with letting the posters involved with the thread let off steam and joke around a little. The ONLY time I ever close a thread is when they resort to childish name-calling, lol... that's where I draw the line :bunny:

You closed the thread, and wrote a message. Witch you rewrited right after.
If you could write, that you are splitting the thread. And that it would be opend after you are finished? (a suggestion at least)
I cant remember in words what you wrote, but it was something like that you closed the thread because it was off topic. Not that you were splitting it!

Personally, i never close threads in my place.
And i do not split them. And i never delete anything.

Please stay on-topic :). The topic of this thread is, is it okay to go off-topic? My point of view is, not in a professional, technical resource forum. For example, imagine a site administrator who is wondering if she should do anything about off-topic posts, comes here, and sees this thread? How would your quoted post benefit her? Instead of seeing a quality discussion on the topic, she'd have to wade through "lol" and childish non-sequitor insults.

Delete personal attacks?
Why not just drop the personal attacks? If you do so, the world would be a better place. :pinks skyes:

If this is a policy vBorg is gone drive on with, then this place has a grey future.

The titel of the thread has been changed some times no.
Its actually not so easy to know whats the next topic here is gonne be.
Who gives you the right to bee the only one the stay off topic?
The topic should be, is it alright to go calling other ones childish ore name them other things?
Pls mr,tgreer. Deside what the real topic is here.

Bravo, bravo.........I totally agree with both of ya. Life is way to short and serious to take "off topic" statement's this serious. Sometime's people need to be able to go off topic and just kind of mess around. It helps relieve stress when a person can say something and get a laugh out of it. Why oh Why do people want everything that is talked about to be so serious?
This thread had nothing to do with coding, it was just some member's lightheartedly talking about having a mentor (a mental mentor in my case) and getting some laugh's out of it.
Please please please, take a deep breath and don't let the little stuff bother ya. If a person doesn't like the way a thread is going, move on.....go to another thread. Just because it get's under your skin doesn't mean that you have to stay in the thread location, there are hundred's of other thread's that you can go be so serious within.


Now, Group hug's...........


And i am still a bit upset that i don't have a mentor........Would it be okay if i pretend i have a mentor? Or would that be off topic? Bwhahahahahahaha

I'm not picking the topics, Lottis... you can see the topic by looking at the title of the thread. This one is "...discussion of staying on topic". The "mentor" discussion is a different thread. If you, I, or anyone else wants to talk about something else, we start another thread. I'm not being dogmatic, that's just how forums work.

Ok, I'm really very curious. Try, if you can, to forget any impression you may have formed about me... respond to what I'm saying, not that it's me saying it:

Does anyone see the difference between an official, corporate, technical resource site, and a general-purpose (or even niche) site that primarily exists as a self-contained community? If not - then we'll never see eye-to-eye. If so, though:

Don't you think that this site, owned by a software vendor, and used by that vendor as their official site for product customization, needs to have perhaps a different standard, in terms of thread moderation, than, as an example, a gaming clan site? A car fan forum? A general-purpose discussion group?

I use the word "professional" a lot, and I use it mainly as an antonym to "amateur". Note, I'm placing no value judgments on either term. I'm an amateur at lots of things which I enjoy immensely: publishing haibun, writing for school textbooks, playing guitar. I'm not insulted when someone calls me an amateur at any of those things, and I'm not insulting anyone who runs an amateur forum.

I'm a professional, though, at programming, and at site administration/moderation, and have been for decades (I ran some very high-traffic Compuserve Forums, pre-internet). One of the tools I use in my profession is vBulletin. When I visit either of their sites, I expect professional-level help and support for the software I've purchased.

In my opinion, part of the problem with .org is that it is not professional-grade. It's run more like a gaming clan for vb hacks. I think that needs to change, and that part of the change from an amateur hacker club to a professional software support forum, is better thread moderation.

How you run your site really isn't relevant to how this site should be run, is it?

T... this is not a professionally run site sweetie. It's a site run by volunteers, for people to offer modifications to vB and for others to come to, to get those modifications. While doing so, people "hang out", enjoy each other, talk about their sites, compare notes, pick up ideas, make friends, joke and kid around, etc.
.Org never was, isn't, and never will be, a professional site, that I can see. And truthfully, that's ok with me, and most others.

Okay, let me ask you a question: "What exactly have you purchased from Vbulletin.org?" I personally have purchased other software from "user's" of vbulletin.org for my website, but everything else i have on my site from vbulletin.org was/is absolutely free.
Now, if you go to Vbulletin.com and tell them you are having problem's with you software, what is the first thing they ask you? "Do you have any hack's on your site?" is what they ask you. If you answer yes to this, they then tell you they cannot help you and that you need to go back to the source of your hack's, and start asking question's of the hack's author, I know this for a fact.
So, if you paid for software and you EXPECT professional-grade service, then go to the site of which you paid for this service. If you go to a site that add's hack's or mod's to your site and you don't have to pay for this service, why can't people then talk about off topic subject's? Are you having a software issue that was caused by one of the hacks/mod's from vbulletin.org?
Anyways, you know the ole saying, "you get what you pay for!!!" and i seriously doubt that you paid to participate in vbulletin.org. I know Most of the hack's and mod's that i have on my site, came from vbulletin.org and were at no cost to me, which i am very thankful for.......

Hotwheels

Like i said. The topic og THIS thread has been changed, 2 times at least.

You disaids what impression other peopel gets of you, not anyone else.
And the fact is, that you already have given me a impression of your self.


I give you the same answere here as Ohiosweetheart wrote;
The software, witch you have purchased. Its not from vborg.

If that were truly all that it was, then so be it. However, this site is Jelsoft's official forum for vBulletin Customization. If the intent really is for this to be a casual community for hack exchange and shooting the breeze, then:

• I'm wrong, and should shut up about it.
• They need another site for development/modification support and discussion, as this one isn't meeting that need.

I really can't help it if you can't separate what I say from who you think I am, and that's all I can really say about that... it also gives me nothing else in your post that I can respond to, and limits the ability for you and I to have further conversations. Sorry.

Jelsoft is a company. They sell vBulletin. I purchased a copy. Jelsoft owns a site, www.vbulletin.org. The site is their official site for vBulletin customization. To join this site, I needed to validate/authenticate my vBulletin license. Given all of the above, I expect the site to serve its stated purpose, and to be of professional quality, part of which means, to come full circle, that topics will be kept on topic.

um, I believe this is what is stated about the site: You needing a license here just has to do with trying to stop pirating of vbulletin.com software.

There are many other vBulletin sites, that you have to have a vBulletin licens.
But i dont think Jelsoft ownes them.
vBadvance-vbArcade- i cant think of any more in the moment.

I don't understand your last post, hotwheels. I'd be happy to respond if you clarify. Nothing about the copyright statement has anything to do with my last post, or about whether or not discussions here should be moderated for topical integrity.

Are you really shure about this, tgreer?

Vbulletin.com does not support hack's to their software, this site is copy written to their respective owners. Which mean's, to me, that if you install a hack/mod from here, only those that know that hack/mod or the actual author will give support. If the author doesn't support the hack, you are on your own.
I understand what you are thinking, but i will tell you first hand, that vbulletin.com DOESNOT support any hack's being added to their software. I have had this discussion with vbulletin.com admin's and know this for a fact. I also believe you will find if you are having a problem with a hack, 99% of the time, you will get help with the hack, but that help in no way come's from vbulletin.com. Period......

No I won't. This is the offtopic thread that was split, can't you read? You don't need both threads for your rants. Please do your whining somewhere else.

Hahaa, an off-topic thread to discuss staying on topic. Let's see how long that'll last. :D

@hotwheels: I'm not, and never have been, discussing any of the 3rd party hacks. vBulletin has a plugin system, and to use it effectively, you have to learn the source code. The best way to learn, is to have discussions with other experienced coders. Jelsoft owns and uses this site for such discusssions. The problem is:

• You can't see the main coding discussion forum. It's been made private.
• The threads aren't professionally moderated, so any discussion you'd like to have is often lost in the noise.

The fact that people release and support hacks here is a separate issue entirely. More power to them.

This thread was the result of the reaction to a moderator finally splitting a thread, an action I applaud. So, do you think it was wrong to do so? How would you have handled it?

I am by no mean's a coder, and i don't pretend to be. One thing i would try to respect would be a Coder's room. If you have 10 coder's discussing a problem with hook's or php placement, it is better in my opinion to let the coder's discuss in some sort of privacy what the answer may be. Verse's having someone like myself, throw in my nonknowing opinion.
Basically there are area's within vbulletin.org where you can ask for help on code or working with hack's. But as a way to develop code, they need a place that has just a bit of privacy. If we keep pushing the issue's like this, pretty soon, we won't get any hacks. They will all cost money, instead of being able to just come here and down load something......

I honestly can't see that you "respect" anything as you say you do. Why, well anyone that takes someone elses hard work (ie: my heavymetal style) and replaces the "designed by:" with their name instead of the original authors doesn't have an ounce of respect in my book.

ouch!

Let's stay off-topic people! :lick:

Your thoughts are shared by many... but that wasn't an answer to my question, which essentially boils down to: if you ran this site for Jelsoft, how would YOU moderate it? Or put another way, should this site be run with a strict moderation policy, or a relaxed one?

I vote "strict", and that includes: Keep threads on topic. Delete offensive posts. No profanity (this is a public forum, people of all ages and backgrounds use it, which is an argument for more discretion, not less, in our word choices). Humor and casual conversation in a Lounge area. Site Feedback should only be responded to by staff... no bandwagon runaway threads or member debates, etc.

A "relaxed" policy would be the no-holds barred, post anything anywhere, staff gets in there and mixes it up with the members, kind of style we have now.

I didn't mean for that to happen. I tried to shut off the link and it messed up the screen. I by no mean's want to take credit for anyone else's work, and i find your style's to be simply awesome. I apologize for having my site link in that spot, i just didn't know how to not have a hot link at the bottom of the page. I will change the name back though........seriously, all i was trying to do was loose the hot link in the footer.. I am very sorry man....... Doug (hotwheels)

I follow you now........and you are right, this topic has nothing to do with site feedback.....and should be in the lounge area.....

Apology accepted, we're good. ;)

I changed it back to Infantrymen too...........Like i say, i got in deeper then i anticipated when i tryed to do some work on the footer area, and not necessarily the hot link, but i tried do some stuff with the footer navbar and couldn't figure out how to make it right. If you go to my site and look at the bottom of the main style (legacy), you will see 3 added link's in the footer bar (spiders, modstats, and files upload center)......I was able to get the links to work correctly, but could never get them to blend into the navbar, if that make's sense. As i was doing that, i tryed to get these on all the style's so that i could quick link to these area's.....In the process, i made error's to several other style's too, and tryed my best to make thing's look right. As such, i was only able to get file upload's up on your style....then i stopped out of frustration cause i couldn't get the bar to look the same......if that make's sense......

anyways, thanks for accepting my apology.........And i seriously want you to know, out of all the style's on my site, the heavy metal version is the best.....simply awesome work.... doug

I understand, sorry to hear that. It takes a big man to reply as you did and you've really earned my respect. I would be more than willing to modify the footer to work correctly for you on your site. If you post your footer code in this thread and give me a description of how it's supposed to be I'll fix it for you. :) (we can continue our conversation in that thread if needed....)

Take care,
Roms

Right on man, i appreciate it..........I will get everything and post it up......thanks, doug

You say that you are a professional programmer (as i may say so if someone asks, as well as a professional designer). However, may i ask what makes this official? Nothing, it's based on our experience and skill. Others can actually probably disagree with us. The same way others can disagree with this not being a professional site. May i ask what officially made this one? The fact that jelsoft owns it just means that they pay for the bills and come here to manage from time to time. In the end, it's run by unpaid volunteers.


Agreed.

And this is why i love Boofo. Agreed.