This is a tremendous loss for the community. I hope the remaining staff rises to the occasion and realizes that some major changes need to take place. I am sure some do, I only hope they are not discouraged.

Erwin, you'll be missed.

I agree with everyone here. Erwin, as long as I've been part of this community (since '01 or so), I've seen you consistently display knowledge, courtesy, humor and creativity. Personally I've been in awe of your ingenuity as well: sometimes it seems like every other hack I've installed on my vB 2.x.x. forum was created or adapted by either you or Chen!

Your posts over the past few days have shown true leadership and grace. I wish you'd change your mind, but I can't say I blame you for stepping down if you find it frustrating and detrimental to yourself. It also sends a useful message: sometimes resignation is the best way to stay true to your own values ... a kind of protest, in a way. (I sure wish folks in Washington DC would show as much dignity and self-respect!!!)

Anyway, best wishes to you and many many thanks for all your help over the years.

I can only agree with the others and say that you'll be sorely missed, and good luck and wishes for you and yours in the future.

I'll make a final post here so that people know exactly why I stepped down to avoid any rumor or gossip.

As everyone knows, there has been talked of a hack database and a paid mod directory for many months. Now, we know that the hack database has been in development for well over 6 months if not longer. I won't go on about it.

It was recently agreed (about a week ago) that the paid mod directory can go ahead by Jelsoft (before it was either denied or it was unclear if we could). Great news I thought. So I pushed for it to be implemented.

Wayne suggested that using an existing script instead of coding one from scratch would be a good idea and I agreed since this would avoid the problems of the hack database. I didn't want a paid mod directory to have to wait another 6 months before coming online. Well, I won't name anyone but let's just say that even though I pushed to use an existing script which we can modify for our own use, certain individuals pushed for a custom code. Now, if the Admin can't implement a strategy so that an objective is reached sooner for the members of the site, then there's no longer any point of him staying is there.

Therefore, all I can say is - have fun waiting for your hack database and paid mod directory. :) I'm sorry to post a pessimistic post like this, but that's how I feel about this whole situation at the moment.

P.S. Staff here are not paid but they do get their vBulletin license for free. Well, I am proud to say that I for one have NEVER taken up the offer and have ALWAYS paid for my vBulletin license - basically because I wanted to make it clear that I am a complete unpaid volunteer on this site and do it out of my love and passion for the forum software. My conscience is clear and there has never been an issue of a conflict of interest on my part.

So long and thanks for the fish! :)

Hepp, Erwin. You are gonne stay as a membmer? Ore?
You can from now on step in as the rebbelian member. *giggels*

You were a great Admin on vborg. I have little faith in the direction of the site now that you have (actually) gone you kinda resigned ages ago but you must have got through the problem or something. vborg shouldn't be run by adolescents and it was a good thing that a guy like you (without the over-ego) was high up. See you around :)

Honestly, I think that yes there have been times when they could have been a bit more communicative and yes it does seem that "nothing gets done" but do remember all the quiet stuff that happens, such as thread moving.
You also have to remember that no one has been banned over this so far as I've seen. Granted, it would have been really really stupid to start banning people who talk back and probably would have started a riot, but, I have known admins who would ban you simply because you dare talk back to them.
I'm not saying the admin are perfect but lets not forget that they do some stuff day to day and they have actually started to listen and respond, even if it did take a few twisted arms to get things kicked off.


I think the vb.org staff have had a bit of a beating from the members, and another from vb.com.
It's obviously been enough to kick them pretty hard in the pants as is evident by the fact we've heard more from them in the last week than for the whole of 2006.
Based on past performance, being wary is understandable, but I'd say give it a couple more weeks while they sort themselves out and get through all these replies, and then make a judgement.

:( sad news indeed. What can be said that hasn't already? One of the foundation block of org has crumbled. I only hope that the workmen they get in to build a new one are capable of taking on such a daunting task.

I have nothing but respect for you Erwin, I hope everything in your life goes more smoothly than the past x months on org (and I'll see you around on TAZ ;) )

I totally agree with this sentiment.

I my heart just sank a bit. If, after all the talk and promises we've heard the past few days from various .com and .org admins and higher-ups, you still felt the need to step down... I don't hold out much hope for .org. Sad day... very, very sad day.

You'll be missed Erwin

exactly. Why do the moderators have such a great say here that Admins can't implement things? On my forum, a moderator is there to help members, and yes discuss things with admins and be a sounding board, but they have nothing to say about the ultimate deision. The buck stops with the admins and the admins ONLY.


totally agree, if it's a big enough difference, I'd replace a mod before I'd lose ANY good admins like Erwin.
Now I'm seeing a bit better, one of the reasons .org is in the shape it's in.

if that is so, Erwin shouldn't have felt the need to resign. Obviously, he sees little hope as well.

Big big loss, i really liked you as an admin. And to lose you over red tape is ludicrous. you're a good man, hope you'll still be here in spits and spats at least.

Stefan mentioned that there's a restructure in place? will that prevent things like this happening again? a site should be administered by Admins and moderated by Mods. I'm quite disappointed that heirachy seems to be limited to aesthetics.

Well, to tell the truth, i am not happy with what Erwin did here, and post some internals public. I have a great respect for him, but that wasn't really needed, and just makes it harder for myself and the rest.

Yes, the way we did run vb.org wasn't that good in the last month, it seems that such a big site needs more of an hierachial structure, and not such a democratic way of descissions we did in the past. But that's a mistake Erwin, myself and Brad made. We were the admins, and handled it this way. This way has lead to problems, that's bad. Actually a mod who disagreed with Erwin on a specific topic was now mentioned as the reason for Erwins step down. But that's not the only reason. For example i had the same opinion as the mentioned Moderator, and therefore, it was not just a mod who made it harder for Erwin, but also an Admin, namely me.

I want to excuse to those who got into the weels of our System. As i said, we namely Erwin, Brad and myself as Administrators during that time, are responsible, that it got that far. Everyone has to draw the consequences. I was close to resign myself, but i think the better way would be to bring vb.org back to what it was. That's why the structure of vb.org's staff will be changed deeply now.

We have three Admins, ever admin has his resort and is absolutelly responsible for his resort. If a member of the staff makes problems, then the Admin has and will take the needed actions. Also as admin of one resort, we won't interact into the other resorts, apert from 'giving a little help when there is a question'. Descission are made in the way they need to be made.

General descisions of vb.org will be made by all three Admins in a democratical way. Descissions in the specific resorts will be made by the group leader, and the staff will have to follow. Of course, we will always have an open ear for suggestions, but the final descission is made by the Admins.

Soa situation like that shouldn't appear anymore.

Glad to hear it, it seems as though real progress is being made, is there an ETA of when these changes will come in to effect? and a projected ETA in which these changes will start to impact the end users here?

Well, i have sent out some pms to potential staff members already, and made some changes in the back to get the system running smoothly soon. I think the restructurization of the staff will be done completely within the next week, at least for the coding staff i have set next friday as an eta for myself.

When the staff is built, each section will have their own etas on things, sorted by importance :)

Erwin:

Thank you for the time and energy you've put into the community here. With everything you have going on, I was constantly suprised that you found the time to be here.

Off Topic:

My site runs in a fashion where the mods have equal as the administrators. That was great when there 5 of us but difficult when we reached over 20. Such a system does have drawbacks from my own experiences, it has advantages as well. I just wanted to add that bit in since it really isnt a common way of doing things.

sorry but I don't think explaining why he was leaving is a bad thing at all. People were bound to ask, speculate, come to their own conclusions, etc... so in my eyes, it's better to put the truth out there, even if it's not pretty, so that rumors don't grow wings.

well, i have no problem about posting the reason that he has problems with some staffmembers, but posting direct examples of internal discussed issues is something different. Also as it's not the whole story, as i said, i had the same opinion as this mentioned moderator on that topic, but i wasn't mentioned, and so everyone came to the conclusion that the mods have more powers than admins, whats not correct, as it was actually an admin and a moderator in different opinion to Erwin.

As i said the situation at all wasn't nice and i could understand the reason why Erwin left, but it's not exactly what he posted in public. But now we have to live with it. I still have to thank Erwin for a good time as CoAdmin, and i hope he'll stay here on vb.org.

no we didn't think that Mods have more power than staff. Perhaps just too much say as to what will and won't happen.
But I think all of that has been cleared up now, thank you, Stefan.

Wow, staff stepping down is becoming common place around here..:confused:

thanks for all your hard work here :D

perhaps less admining for edwin means more time for him to create more wonderful modifications?

That's pretty crappy about the admin/mod issue. What the heck?

Anyway, good luck to you!

Really ? - did I miss some others then :confused:

I was wondering that myself...

Erwin, sorry to see you leave. For a long time it was apparent that you actually had the best interest of the site in mind. Having your hands tied when you tried to implement changes to make the site better must have been very disheartening.
One can only hope that Erwins resignation will send a signal to remaining staff that they better weed out the ones causing the problems. Unfortunately, if past history is an indication, once the ruckus calms down things will return to how they were until the next time the same issues arise. Promoting a few coders to staff will pacify most and make it look like things are about to change for the better.
My bet is these same issues will return in the future.

Well said :)

Very well said. I hope it will be different, but I cannot say my confidence level is very high.

thanks to everyone beeing so optimistic :)

Well, actually the changes are way bigger than just making a few more users staff. We are making some real hierarchies, and sections into the team, which are all new on vb.org. And Erwin was one of us who decided the way of these changes with us, he stepped down after that descission.

Yup, ya gotta have fun doing this or isn't good for your health. I just hope those who are creating this indecisiveness think about what it really takes to have fun.

Good luck Erwin!

Xenon - I truly hope things work out for the better. If you need anything, dont hesitate to ask.

How many others stepped down?

zero ^^

YET, anyway. :cross-eyed:

ok, i'll throw out a few, but that doesn't count ^^

Remember, I'm taking you with me when I go. :cross-eyed:

Can I come to? :p

You have to ask? ;)

Well, it's only polite... you might think I'm stalking you if I just followed you without letting you know first :p

I only wish someone would care enough to stalk me. :(

I don't get it... you have 3 admins and several moderators.

You say 1 moderator and 1 admin disagree, meaning that 2 admins must be in agreement with erwin....

Maybe I'm just being slow here, but it sounds like you're in the wrong? :/

Bye erwin :(

Yeah but it depends if implementing something is based on a majority vote or unan unamini... everyone agreeing.

I would guess the latter.