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But when members complain to us that hack threads are bing abandoned or having the hacks removed, we have to follow the rules, no matter who it is. That's what the rules are there for. ;) |
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I personally feel that LiveWire is an awesome coder, and i certainly hate to see him leave. I absolutely adore TheGeek and feel that PaulM is somewhat blunt but always makes sense to me, and i dont always like the atmosphere here from the Mods, BUT, i have seen more coders treating members bad than i have staff. You seem to forget that w/o users, there would be no need for coders. The same as you say w/o coders, there would be no site. I am very much dissapointed in your comments as this is not what i expected as a user to see from you since you are requesting respect. Quote:
What i am trying to say is this. You cant develope the attitude that someone stole your lollipop so you are going hold your breath until you turn blue until they give it back. You have to be better than that, you have to say, ok, im more mature than that and i am not going to retaliate by taking your lollipop tomorrow, in fact, tomorrow i will have another one and bring you one too. If it seems a bit rediculous to give such a childish analogy then please be aware that is how your starting post seems to me, childish. If you dont like how others play the game, then dont play in their yard. It is that simple IMO...Take care all - Lady Divus |
I can only say this so many times that this has nothing to do with ego or who is higher on the this so called pedestal. I feel like this is being made into some sort of contest, which it isn't. He removed the zip files, which means the hack thread is no longer a hack thread. If he wants to put the zip files back, we will restore the thread.
If I announced publically that I was removing my hacks and leaving, of course the threads would be deleted quicker than the example you just posted. |
I submit then that the rules need to be changed. A thread with valuable information in it, one that has the capacity to help the members here, shouldn't be removed even if the attachment is removed (unless the hack author requests it be removed too, of course.)
Worst case scenario: lock the thread. Deleting it only denies the users the valuable information in the thread. No, new members won't get confused; the thread is locked and soon forgotten. ;) |
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Excellent post! No one here has stated this any better than you just did. You are to be commended and admired. ;) |
well i have a few hacks that i have not relased because of the atmosphere here.
Once things get worked out I would be happy to start putting out my hacks. |
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It seems to me that it would be more sensible to close them and move them out of the hacks area into the general support area, so people can at least refer to them. I understand why they were removed (policy), but IMO, the policy needs a small tweak :)
I also think the reaction of some to this has been somewhat OTT - chill out people. :) |
And this commoin sense statement comes form a code here with, what, 12 installs, Paul? So you might want to listen to him people. ;)
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LOL, I think you missed a few zero's there. :p
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If you guys want respect, be the bigger person and let it go, or at least try to solve things in a civil manner. It's not a big deal. I understand that many of you want to see some changes, hell... I do too, but this isn't the way to go about it.
If you don't feel motivated to do something, don't do it. It's simple. Move on, sell your modifications if you want to, and good luck to you. I don't bother releasing modifications here (never have, really). Why? Exactly. Why. As selfish as that sounds, I have no reason to, so I don't. I don't complain either, though. Removing your work from here is your own decision, and though a tad childish in my opinion, it is your choice. The staff removing the threads right after seemed a bit of a rash move, but everyone seems to be a little pissed off lately, so that is understandable. Both parties are (or at least appear to be) acting out of spite. This is not good. One thing I do disagree with is the slow production of the mods system. I'm sure a few people working together could whip something together in a matter of days. Another thing I would like to see is a wiki-style articles system here. The tutorials section seems to be the least organized area (and most useful to me). Maybe it is time to get some more staff members, and though I'm not sure what the deal is with the hacks db, having it up ASAP would really be appreciated by 90% of the users on this site. Anyway, everyone should lighten up. Nobody is replacable; but, if you do leave, others will come. I'm glad to see many of you are keeping things civil, but to the rest of you: try it. It works. It helps. It makes everyones' lives much more pleasant. :) |
@Tralala: What I'm going to say is not an attack but more of an observation. There's a lot of anger in your voice and frankly I don't see it helping the current situation. I'm a bit confused with your intentions. Are you speaking on the behalf of displeased members or for yourself?
I'd rather see a more diplomatic resolve but if members want to fight the fight, allow them to fight their own fight. |
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This Is Text! ;)
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I've been quoted therefore I am. :D
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*The progression of any argument is largely dependent on the approach. |
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Again, I am not offended, nor am I angry. I am frustrated and disappointed by the fact that a large amount of very helpful threads, a resource I came to depend on, was deleted quickly and without proper warning or notification. It certainly feels retaliatory, in the 5 short months here I haven't seen such swift action from the moderators. Yes, it has been asked: Whats with JumpDs mods! It was answered with the line that "it is vb.org policy." In this thread I submitted that this policy is lame and hurts the overall community. To this, I received these responses: Quote:
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I just want the threads back, and feel like the users have gotten caught in the cross-fire of an childish game. |
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The threads were moved in a "Recycle Bin" (hidden) forum or an equivalent of.
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I'm not concerned whether or not they "technically" can be undeleted. I'm aware that they were soft-deleted (or moved) are are easy to bring back. I want them undeleted so the userbase can benefit from the thousands of helpful posts inside, and so this conflict doesn't continue to snowball out of control. If the mods acknowledge they made a knee-jerk mistake in deleting these threads so abruptly, I have a hunch that would go a long way towards ameliorating the problem we're facing here. |
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I have read a bit of what is going on, and while I have yet to contribute code to the community. I would like to try to understand why pulling code is going to help?
All that reminds me of is a little kid who does not get their way and picks up all their toys and goes home. I would expect such actions from my 5 year old yes but from adults or those who wish to have respect given to them? There should have been a better way to get the attention craved or needed, perhaps stop all support of your current hacks or offer support only for $ which seems to be the bottom line or unlined motive. If it was about being noticed, I am sure this post I am making will get no attention due to I am nothing but a person who uses the scripts and have yet to release any making me as one coder so nicely called a user. I think its time people grow up and try a more civil and mature way of resolving a conflict when they arise. So far the only ones who will be hurt in this is the every day member such as myself and even if all the coders do leave that will leave room for those who have yet to release to release and get all popular till they crave the money over the community and have it all happen again in 2 years. |
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A little arrogant if you ask me. |
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At present, we simply don't have the time or resources to regularly check up on every modification that is released. Quote:
The policy on deleting withdrawn releases will be reviewed after the feedback that you, and others have given us. However, nothing is likely to be changed until the "meeting" has taken place.. |
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ahahha thats cause your old boobyfoo! |
I think the staff has recived quite enough criticism for one week. Like OK said, there is going to be a meeting on wensday about all of the issues here on vBOrg.
I think the best thing to do now is to wait for the outcome of the meeting. I'm confident enough to think that Jelsoft will handle these issues accordenly. I'm sure once things start to take a turn soon, that you will see these hacks restored in no time. I personally understand whats going on with the hacks as I have had my hacks removed by choice also. I removed the attachments and stated that I wasn't going to support these hacks anymore. The staff did what should have been done and remove them. The reason why Jumps hacks were removed 'quicker' then others is because his decision was publicly addressed, there for more staff members had the opportunity to know about the situation. See this post here: https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....7&postcount=10. There already looking for away to host these abandon hacks. |
Since i was the Staff member that did remove the threads by JumpD (it could have been any other Staff member), i would like to clarify somthing that seems to cause confusion:
It is normal policy, and has been as long as i remember, that the threads of modifications that are removed (ie. file deleted) are removed as immediate after Staff notice it, there is no waiting time if it is clear that the author withdrew it on purpose. Only exception to this is if Staff isn't sure if the attachments where deleted on purpose or accidentally ommited, in that case we ask the author to clarify the situation and give him some time (usually a week) to respond. In this special case we already waited until the next day, which is more time then we usually give. This policy have been followed for years without any (major) protest. Since this policy is now challenged, we are discussing if it needs to be changed, but that don't change the fact that it was the normal policy at time of action. To all that request the threads to be restored, this will not happen. They will only be restored if the original author request so because he want these modification to be released again (uness we change policy). Quote:
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In this meeting they will (probably) discuss how and when they can arrange a meeting with all the parties involved in vbulletin.org to address the current situation and how to improve it. PS Let me throw some more oil on this fire, recently the same happened with most of the hacks released by Nexialys, unless i missed some posts, nobody ever made an issue out of that. |
I've always remember this being the policy and I personally have no problem with what you have done with his post. It seems that it is now an issue and I'm happy to know that you guys are looking into the current policy and maybe changing it as you see fit.
Thanks for clearing up the whole meeting thing. I am happy to know that they will at least talk about whats going on over here. I belive a better relasionship between the two sites here is something that is needed, and hopefully that is soon to come. :) |
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Until today I would have said it unlikely I would leave in the next year or two, sadly that's not the case anymore.
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Hey, Paul; I have a couple of your mods installed and would hope that you would just see this as a speed-bump in an otherwise unblemished history on this site.
I can understand how you might be upset that it went down like this, but maybe you can see it from their perspective that even the appearence of something malicious could in itself be cause for alarm. They tried to handle it privately while being expedious in trying to protect their members; I've never seen something like this before on the site, so they were figuring it out as they went. Lessons learned on both sides I am sure. Try not to take it personal and, hopefully, get back to what it is about the site that brought you here and made you such a valuable contributor in the first place. Cheers. |
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