Post your best anti troll hacks! :D

*Even while I'm not in this particular discussion :classic: ...* I understand your frustration. Yet, us "non-coders", do come in various colors and flavors. :)

As someone pointed out earlier, we learn from one another. Sure, there are some who can manage solely on their own "know-how" but at what pace? This community strives because we all have a common interest with our vB's. I can tell you honestly that I have much respect and appreciation for all of you who contribute to make our default vB into something spectacular. As much learning I have with vB's protocol I owe a great amount from reading, taking time with routines/scripts and asking questions. I do with what I can. Keep doing what you do and keep the creativity alive. :)

this is a nice suggestion as well.

For what my opinion is worth I don't care if the coders have one forum or three thousand forums that I can't access :) As was pointed out elsewhere by someone (sorry, I can't remember who - it may have been Amy :) ) we all, as forum owners, have forums on our sites that are usergroup based and not accessible by the general masses and it's not like anything that goes on in these forums is going to affect the rest of us - except in maybe a good way - as we could see some of the top coders here work together on some ideas and bring a new stage of things to vB plug ins.

Give both them and the staff a break and let the coders have some space of their own. *sits back and awaits the flaming ;)*

Thanks Azhrialilu. More users should see it that way but they don't.

Heres my additude towards the situation. I'm a coder and I went through alot of work and years of reading nonstop to be able to do what I can do now. I take the time out of my own day, to release mods I don't even use on my own sites, I create them out of a challange.

I ask myself... can I make this hack? Lets see if I can. I'm challenaging myself to create hacks I don't think I can make, and make them. Then I will share them with the rest of the community.

So years of studing, coding, and sharing my work should at least give me the option to go into a forum, where only coders like myself can access. If your not a coder, then start studying and learning like I did.

There are alot of selfish non-coders here. If you can't even take the fact that we would like a little corner to ourselfs, then don't bother using my hacks. It's people like you (non-coders who don't like the idea), that make me not want to release my work here.

As I have said that is in my view a very weak reason to restrict access to a resource. When I was first learning to code, around 25 years ago, there were no Internet resources to use yet I don't think everyone should have to "start studying and learning like I did", the world changes.

It is not a matter of not "take the fact that we would like a little corner to ourselfs" all I have pointed out is that it is shame that a potentially useful area, and by useful I mean an area that potentially would help and encouraging an even greater number of people to become "vb coders" is no longer available.

The way I see it, is that this forum is designed for a complex level of learning and discussion that as a non-coder, it is pointless you being able to read it... Why? Because you won't understand, and you will need to ask questions...

Your arguement of a valid and useful resource becomes null and void for that very simple reason - If you are advanced enough to view it and understand it, you are advanced enough to release your code here and become a Coder, therefore invalidating any reasons as to why you can't see it any more...

Chris

Ding Ding Ding!

Actually it doesn't - since as I commented there is a lot of educational benefit in just reading how experienced people tackle a problem.

Also another way to look at the why, where learning is concerned secrecy is not always the best approach: It could be that there are some very experienced and very good programmers who hang about here that for whatever reason haven't posted a hack and therefore the coders miss out on that groups programming experience.

You wouldn't join a weight lifting competition that required you to pick up a 4-door sedan would you?

I don't think that is a good analogy - a nearer one would be not to let anyone not already a weight lifter even watch a weight lifting competition until they've become a weight lifter!

I think it is very reasonable to not allow "unqualified" people to actually participate given the stated reasons for having such a section, it's just I think it was (and that was how it was originally set up) a good resource for people wanting to learn - which as I have said is shame.

Not to be funny, but there are a million and one good resources out there for people wanting to learn how to code - access to one extra forum isn't gonna make someone an expert coder any faster.

Yes there are but not that many dealing with vBulletin coding, it's certainly not earth-shatteringly important - just a shame.

Then I have no interest in their opinion regarding vBulletin. If I want to discuss with good coders who don't give to this community then I will go to Sitepoint or other sites that offer a far more broad coding discussion than is available here.

Sorry, Darat but I just dont see why it's a big deal - there are enough forums on Vb.org to ask questions about vBulletin coding already.

I'm not a coder, so I don't have any vested interest in this forum, but I can see why they'd prefer to keep it quiet. Think about it, in public forum if one coder comes up with a new idea, 10 people instantly jump on them wanting to know when it'll be started, beta-tested, out for release... if they can discuss it in the relative quiet of a private forum, the chances are the idea will become a release faster.

I mean - would you demand micosoft not allow any private forums on their own site regarding new ideas - so you can watch how they develop their software? Don't think they'd agree to that somehow. Look what happened when they released some of the earlier versions of windows (ME in particular) because of the pressure to get it out - the bugs in it were outrageous - would you want all hacks released under the same kind of pressure - obviously slightly dilluted - here?

Round n Round we go. I don't see this being open to non-coders now, so I wouldn't waste your time complaining. If you don't like the idea, go read some tutorials.

That's what I've been doing for the past six months, looks like it finally paid off (I got the "Coder" status today :D)

And found out there has only been two posts in there since it went private. :D

Not quite. ;)

Now only is the coders forum a place for complex coding talk and such, however, it is also a place where coders can get advice from other coders. If other members are allowed to view this forum, useless posts may be made and such. Also, there are some things in which people feel more comfortable sharing with other coders (such as works in progress, etc.).

As far as learning how to code is concerned. I learned from studying other hacks and looking at some tutorials i found here. All the resources needed are here on this forum. What you do with the information and content is up to you.

If the Coder's Discussion forum was public it would just be a duplicate of the PHP/MYSQL/JS/XHTML forum and the General Modification Discussion forum. Honestly, there really isn't valuable resource that someone learning how to code would find useful. It's just Coders talking about their current projects and having a good time chatting with people who understand their frustrations and moments of joy in a coding view.

Those who want to learn and are having problems have the PHP/MYSQL/JS/XHTML forum.

My analogy of having the forum public:

It's like going to a book club and discussing a book amongst people who haven't read the book.

:)

-Danny

Bingo.

The only people who seem to think it is a big deal in this discussion are those that are arguing for the forum to now to be totally exclusive. :) All I have said is that it is a shame that one potentially useful resource is no longer available. I certainly haven't said it is a big deal or given the impression that I think it is a big deal.

I understand this and if you read my responses I have said I understand why, given the reason for the forum, they didn't want to allow everyone posting privileges.


I haven't demanded anything, and again I don't think your analogy, especially given how some of the coders here have described how that forum is being used) is really an appropriate one.

I haven't been complaining.

Are we the (members) only guilty one. All of the coders are perfect but members gives useless feedback?

I think you can remember, i installed inferno quiz and i uninstalled them bcs it is not a good idea for my board. I said thank you and few posts later i asked how to uninstall it bcs it left some parts behind of hack. (This is not only for that hack it was just an example)

And did i get a reply back?

NO!

You told me to uninstall all part of it. I already did, i am not dumb that much but i still didnt get a reply back from a coder.

That thing happened to me 4-5 hacks i installed (i mean not getting reply from the coder)

So you can right, maybe all of us not giving good feedback but hey think, how much of us can get a reply back from a coder when we give a good feedback?

I just want to ask it. You cant judge all of the members by judging only some part of the members.


I think being that forum is private for coders are good idea.But like others said we need tips too (members that try to code something)

Hey something useful could come out of the staff forums too! Why not make them public? We could learn how to administer our forums better!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
bonjurkes inferno quiz is not amykhar's hack. She owes you no answer. Judging by even that one can see how "useful" the members can be in such a forum. :rolleyes:
Coders may not be perfect but at least they offer something to the community. What do members offer to justify the demands they have? Members come here, get, whine, annoy the coders even via IM and never give, although in some cases they have the ability to. At least be a little thankful :rolleyes:

michelle i know inferno is not Amy's hack and i know that she dont need to give answer for it too.I didnt say that to her.I told it to coder of the hack.

Most of members say thankyou and press install (i am sure pressing the install button is better than saying thank you)

I didnt get it. Amy says they only say thanx not give any feedback and you say it will be enough if they say thank you...

You mustnt think that all of the members must give back something.Most of us are giving feedback about hacks. I wont say anything if you call our feedbacks as whining :cross-eyed:

That would be relevant to the point I have raised if this was forum about how to better administrate forums. As it is this forum (as far as I understand it) is a way of vBulletin promotion by encouraging people to tinker with the core-product.

Without "non-coder" Members here what would be the point of releasing any hack or modification?

As for what do "non-coders" Members do (and I take from your post that non-coder Members are less welcome and lesser Members then "coders" is that right?) - well some of us at least do try to help when we can.

Umm...Please read my post (#42), Michelle. :)

Frankly, I think the people who contribute to the community deserve rewards/benefits; if one of them is in form of a private forum, cool. Let it be.

*Why I'm getting myself involved in a discussion (at 3:18am) that really is not important I haven't a clue. Sleep deprivation is real and an irritant.

I'm confused - that section has now been made totally private as a reward? I didn't think that was the purpose of the section or the reason it has been totally closed to non-coders?

Of course, this whole argument could have been avoided if Xenon and the rest of vb.org had decided not to tell anyone about the forum in the first place and just sent a pm to the relevant usergroups. No one else would have known the forum existed and all this arguing back and forth would not have happened. But, they told everyone what they were going to do...... I wouldn't be surprised if they don't bother from this point on, nor would I blame them.

I've read the comments in this discussion and I have no issues with the reasons of wanting a private forum. My only reservation is the underlying bitterness that is transcending from both sides of the coin by some members of this community. Personally, I'd prefer investing my time more productively here. I'm in the discussion just because.

I call the coders private forum a reward/benefit because that's what it is; something positive. Constructive ideas can come about with members who are on the same wavelength. I'm not referring to skill but from collective thought.

I've been around forum communities for a while but with vB only a couple of months. I understand how things work and I'm not about to undermine decisions made, especially from one of the Admins I know and respect. *Sigh*...It's 4:07am now...

Well I would say reading the comments the bitterness seems to be mainly one-sided - all I have said for example is that I think it is shame because it potentially reduces the resources available for everyone. Yet on the "other side" it appears that there is a lot of resentment (in albeit a very small number of people) that more of us are not "coders", that we aren't thankful enough, that we shouldn't use hacks and so on. So I would agree that is a shame - I know if I did release a hack I'd want as many people as possible to use it - not just those I deemed somehow "worthy" but hey different people different strokes as they say.


I'm not trying to undermine any one and I've not even asked for the decision to be changed. Yet I do have have to say that personally it feels to me me that quite a few of the people who have participated in this discussion are of the opinion that non-coders such as myself should be grateful for whatever crumbs the "real Members" are willing to drop us and not even bother to express an opinion about something because our opinions are worthless.

I've just remembered that this is an announcement thread so perhaps if anyone wishes to continue this discussion we should do so in a more appropriate section of the forum?

I haven't named anyone nor singled anyone out. Discuss away is what I say. Anyway, I find that on the majority if you work with people they'll do the same in return. It's all cool with me.

I think your counting code is a bit buggy ;)

Was a joke bud.

I could understand the arguments against a private forum if stuff was shared in there. But the forum is only for discussing projects. I don't understand what's the valuable resource in that. The point about seeing how a coder tackles a problem is null and void, because if you know enough to understand the coding problem, you know enough to release stuff and thus earn a coder title. If you don't know enough code, it's just like me reading stuff in the Hexing forum on this Lineage II development forum Im on. I don't understand jack when they talk about push dword and whatnot, and I learn nothing from there.
I dare anyone to give me one valid resouce that could come out of the Coders forum that doesn't have its own forum already.

It's like this. Everything coders do here is done during their own personal time. This is not a paid job, it's used up free time for the bennefit of others.

It's not too much to ask that we have an area of the forums where we are not simply a resource.

I can't speak for others; but, I'll give you the reasons why I support it.

• It's the Coders who make vb.org.
• It's the Coders who create addons and/or modifications.

In the long run, providing a private forum for coders will benefit vb.org as a whole.

Encourage participation amongst coders.

• Without making it publicly available ... coders can ask questions and/or get ideas from other coders.

Promote the creation of new addons.

• Participation amongst coders will ignite the creation of more advanced addons -- which in their own way promotes vBulletin.

Boost the time spent on vb.org.

• We want to increase "activity" time by coders. The longer a coder stays the more liklihood they will create addons and/or help others.

Entice past coders who have stopped participating.

• We want to encourage inactive coders to become active again.

Activity in this forum is already positive ... the more people become aware of the forum the likelihood everyone will start seeing the benefits. It's just a matter of time...

Hehe...I think it also benefits them as well knowing that their effort, pushing themselves and thinking outside the box paid off. ;) If you have the skill and the will to help others that is awesome.

This thread is an interesting read really...

I will just make some final statements here, naming our reasons whay this forum has been added in the way it is now:

vbulletin.org was a board for coders at first, normal members were always welcome to get hacks/support and were thankful. Coders enjoyed the time here as there were a lot of them, so it was a meeting point of specialists.

that was the beginning, but that has changed, the ratio between coders to members has been strongly evolved into members direction, and so changed also the way of talking/posting on vbulletin.org. That's a natural thing on sites like this, and you cannot see it as a positiv or negativ aspect, just the way it is.

But that change leads to problems of course. Coders miss the "old days" where they could talk to each other on a professional base. That's why we wanted to give them a place where they could talk to each other like in the old days, and we made it the way it was, that anyone could join the group.

But that didn't make out as we want it. A lot of people just joined that group and asked questions which could have been in the other forums already, but they thought now they have more attention by coders, so we restricted it to coders only. And the reson it is private now, is because a lot of coders mentioned, that they want to talk about unfinished projects in there, which should not yet been known to the public. And as coders ARE the heart of vbulletin.org on the long run, it is the best to make their stay here as positive as possible, and so we made it a private forum, and as i can say from my own point of view: Regarding to the threads in that forum now, it was the best descission we could make, and we won't change it.