vBulletin 3.5 has many standard features that will IMO become invaluable to me and many others on this site.
Notable ones include AJAX posting, persistent thread marking, quick swapping between WYSI and standard posting styles, etc.
Not to mention vBulletin is faster, more stable and easier to extend.

Ill be happy as sunshine once the upgrade is here, but for now I think Ill restrain myself from /wrist

"12 mods" ... where are they?

... my visits here are less frequent due to the "atmosphere" lately. Some changes are needed. I hope with the new "database" system there will be new faces. I'm not saying that current staff is poor ... it's just that there's not enough of them around.

There are only a handful of staff (actually less) that are always around. These are the people that BUILD vb.org. They should be surrounded with people with the same dedication.

Not long ago, one of the best vb.org staff members was promoted to vBulletin Staff. He deserves that title. He's helped many just by being here; just by "moderating"; just by being positive; and he loves to show his work. It's a shame we see less of him here; but, life goes on.

Perhaps a staff reshuffle is needed.
- some people should be downgraded (perhaps a "Visiting Mod" title)
- while others should be dropped (Why keep them if they are no longer active or "moderating"? Life goes on ... things change ... pass the baton to someone else.)


With that said, it's staff responsibility to watch what they and others say. It's their job to promote a POSITIVE atmosphere.


SUGGESTIONS:
- Ignore it if you do not have nothing positive to say; someone will come along and post the appropriate answer
- Merge the thread with another
- Add a link to other threads so that people could see that it has been discussed previously.


THINGS TO REMEMBER:
- There will always be duplicates.
- There will always be people that ignore the SEARCH feature.
- Text is not a good way to communicate -- no emotions. eg. A message that was meant to be just a "I was only pointing out the facts" could be construed in a "negative" way. Which it was; and will each time someone reads it.

i've said for a while that i don't feel the non-active mods should be kept on, it's harsh but their passion for the site is evidently not that of what it should be. saying that on the occasions that they are active as seldom as it maybe, you're left thinking how cool it would be if they were like that all the time.

haha

There is actually only one person who is listed as a moderator and isn't active currently. Another is listed as a "Retired Moderator". All others have been active.

Rose - inactive (no seen since April ?)
assassingod - inactive (last post Aug 05)
Steve Machol - inactive (last post Mar 05)

Since their promotions, a lot less is seen of Kirbyde & Colin F. Little has been seen of Erwin in the last few weeks.

Personally I don't think it a great idea for "promoted" people like Kirby & Colin (or other Jelsoft staff like Steve) to be moderators here (i.e. dual roles) - their Jelsoft roles must (should) be their priority, meaning they cannot commit the time to here as they once did - it's not as if vb.org isn't swimming in other people willing to help is it ?

Steve Machol is the Jelsoft Support Manager. He isn't losing his position here.

Erwin is in and out. Just because you don't see him doesn't mean he isn't here.

Rose is Inactive... Assassingod is listed as "Retired".

Andreas is here regularly, I have seen him lurking. I have seen Colin around as well.

This site is not lacking in staff and they are actively pursuing things. Since people are NOSY and need to know where the volunteers are... They have lives, they are volunteers. They are not slaves to this community. One member had to take time off because his wife was very ill. Others are in the middle of Finals. As the need arises, people will be promoted.

The problem with running a site dedicated to Forum Admins is everyone wants to be in charge.

I am never the one to take up for "da man", but I have been to other sites that support other forum software. Compared to them, org staff are great if a little stuck up at times. You should be glad that they are not a bunch of dictators pouncing on any that challenge them. (Well, sometimes I like those kinds of idiots because it is fun watching them act like morons.)

As for staff being chosen from the coder ranks, I am against it in the exclusive sense. You do not have to be a coder to recognise spam and flame.

As far as I am aware all staff are chosen because they are contributing members of the community not because they are coders.

I, for one, was not chosen on my coding ability. I made sure of that before I even thought of accepting the position. ;)

Saying a particular group of people are not customer service oriented because they are a coder or an engineer is a poor excuse and it irrates me any time I hear it. I'm a network engineer and even though I don't have to deal with customers very much I'm still customer service oriented because it's just common courtesy. And my statement is just about this statement in general.

I am sure you are and dont let that general statement get to you. It is a general statement and does not apply to every coder. In most proffessional environments a lot of coders are being thrusted into a more direct customer communication environment. The liaisons that once existed are being phased out.

My brother was a top ten programmer for Intel and just wrapped up some work with Rasmus Lerdorf. He is now working for Google. Thinking of him having to do what other mods here do is insane to me. The guy hardly leaves his room and to talk to him is like talking to a robot. He represents the extreme old school coders. I dont think anyone here is like that, but their are still certain aspects of that lifestyle that are present.

It was for your good looks.... :rolleyes:

You're just saying that because it's true. ;)

I couldn't agree with you anymore. This is the EXACT reason why my activity has droped dramiticly. I had a problem with one moderator and reported it to JelSoft some time ago. The additudes in a couple of the staff members here really need to change and lighten up. This site used to be fun some time ago, that sadly has not been the case here for awhile.

Besides what else do you have to do in the nursing home pop.

If you were, I would seriously doubt the integrity and sanity of the administration :p

Ouch.

We still do that anyway :p

Chris

There is a difference between being an active moderator and being a member of Jelsoft staff. He is not an active moderator.

Retired / inactive - is there a difference ?

Please re-read my post. I never said they weren't here, I said they were less active, and that this site must now be a second priority for them.

Nice - insult anyone who asks questions.

Who said they wanted to be in charge ? I'm sure it's no secret that I offered to be a moderator the last time an opportunity arose - but clearly my outspoken views do not suit those in charge, so I don't think anyone needs to worry.

to add weight to that, i feel all because someone visits doesn't mean they're active, active in my opinion is posting, whether it's helping out with support, helping in the help forums or even just posting int he lounge. but of course they should have a visible presence in any forum they're assigned to.

Paul, Steve is active here, just not in the overall community aspect. He handles other things here. He is a moderator here (and active I might add) :p He is also a manager for jelsoft, hes not going anywhere :p

Rose is on leave, personal reasons.

Assassingod is retired due to time constrains.

The problem I see with Rose is someone new or not knowing better and seeing Rose listed as a mod and contacting Rose for help. When that person gets no response, they may feel that the staff here do not care or do not help ect. I dont see this being an issue often, but I am sure it has and will happen.

Unless being a mod here is an absolute status symbol for these two people, I would think it would not be mean to temporally remove them from staff until they return. I am sure they wouldnt want to come back to a full pm box anyhow. I wouldnt. Also maybe putting in thier sig that they are staff, but not active at this time.

the staff here does a great job to keep the forum in check...sometimes. just the comments and attitude towards us gets a lil bit to rude, and its not always needed....everyone here does a great job though...

lets not forget, if wayne or any admin wanted to, they can easily check the modcp logs and see whose doing work and whose not.

in my eyes, being a mod is a job, not just a privelage or volunteer work. just cuz steve is a mngr for vbulletin doesnt mean he should be staff here and be bothered by people looking for help and junk with hacks and mods and stuff thats going on here.

with my staff, i go over the modcp logs and see what mod is doing what...checkin if threads are getting handled and users problems within my problem forum and other request. i watch all that, doesnt take long to go over things...but if i see a mod, or even admin, not doing work, answering problems or questions, or just postings replys and threads instead of mod'n the forum and making sure threads are in the right forum and stuff, then i have to hit them up and see whats the issue with that, make sure they understand that being a mod is more then a title to me and i expect things to get done since i cant always baby sit the board, so on. fortunately ive only had to remove a few mods for inactivity, but my staff is pretty solid.

staff and team should be based on what they bring to the community the site is going after, not developing status or if they are some1's friend. if they got things to do in their lives and cant put in time and work on a board to make sure things are running smoothly, i would just remove them from staff and choose individuals trustworthy enough to have the powers to help the community go.

yea, life moves on in peoples lives...well, so do forums.

why do so many people moan?
I think this site is going very well and i think its perfect!

The site doesnt have to be here...they can close if they want...they dont need to have staff active all year around..they dont get paid!

Also, why do so many moan about upgrading...who cares?

If you dont like this fourm i say leave lol...

Anyway, good work vbulletin.org!

Well then clearly we have different views on what "active" is. Would you consider me active if i had not posted since March ? I don't dispute he may have a behind the scenes roll here, but I think moderators should be visible to those they moderate, i.e. activly posting on the site. :)

why was i quoted? :(

Personally i think the opposite. Moderators should be (in their moderating role) be almost invisible on a site. Only sometimes it is needed to show that you are watching to the public as a warning/example. The best work is done unnoticed.

[high]* Marco van Herwaarden thinks that he is a bad moderator by his own description.[/high]

I agree Marco. On my site I don't appear as a moderator, the majority of people don't even know I run the site, they just think I post news. ;)

:( at invisible moderators. people always forget that moderate can mean '+' it doesn't always have to mean '-'.

We are bound to - Everyone has their own unique moderating style, so what is your preference may not be so for someone else ;)

Chris

the above rather touching moderator love moment was sponsored by vBulletin in association with PHP and MySQL and also Dark Project Studios

:love:

I see members quality of membership quantified in participation often here. However, most times, I have no idea what that assessment is based on.

How many hacks do I have to publish for each available vB version to be considered an active contributor?

How many hacks do I have to port to the new version of vB to be considered an active contributor when other hackers leave the community and no longer offer support for broken code?

How many hacks do I have to help new members fix when they do a release and can't fix their own bugs to be considered an active contributor?

How many times after I install a hack, read the code, find a better way to do something, then share it with the author to the entire communities benefit to be considered an active contributor?

How many general vB questions do I have to field to be considered an active contributor?

How many confirmed bugs do I have to report to be considered an active contributor?

Let's find out who we are as members and maybe knowing that we would be less likely to clash with moderators and accuse them of favoritism. A point system would be absolute. Opinions are too subjective.

These guys must be tired of being picked on!

Coming soon...

Quantifing "Commercial"

I think sometimes people get frustrated, they are human and should be allowed. I dont think I have ever had a mod or staff member act rudely towards me. And god knows I probably have deserved it a few times :)

It's not enough to be an active contributor in a community to be a moderator. I'm sure your forums have some people you would much rather be LESS active that would dearly love a moderator position on your site - but there's no way in Hades you would want them in that spot.

I think the moderating staff that is here now is a decent size. Things receive attention promptly. And, I think Erwin and Stefan genuinely care about the needs of this community and have the users' best interests at heart.

And, I know that they are willing to listen when y'all have genuine concerns, as is Wayne.

Amy

Where in my post i am saying that moderating means only '-'??

Moderating means make sure the community is going according to the rules set, and where possible things run as smooth as possible. Sometimes you do that with some silent diplomacy, sometimes in public.

PS Try looking up what 'moderating' means:
Not sure if we always succeed on all those points, but be sure that we are trying.

My post had nothing to do with becoming a moderator. It's a suggestion to quantify a members participation for moderators to stop the perception of favoritism.

I know it's an out there idea, but for now, there's no way to know where a member stands. It's purely opinion and that opinion varies from staff member to staff member some are pointing out.

I think it's why these type threads are started by a different members when others get closed. Everyone's perception is different. Without a finite way to qualify a member, we will get opinions. We all know how well a jury of opinion works. :/

I don't expect this to be implemented, I'm just putting it out there so the point is made. There is only opinion. When there is only opinion, clubs and inside gangs become possible. The members are warning that this is their perception. A good business would listen to it's customers and find a way to even the playing field.

I don't have the answer, but the question is very very clear.

I am not sure selecting moderators by activity levels is enough to stop the whole perception of favoritisim. Rather, the key to resolve this issue is consistancy, which is always difficult when moderating controversial threads. The less active moderators don't cause a problem in general. It's the more active ones that get involved in the conversations and debates that sometimes struggle to determine when to shut down conversations and when not to.

That's why the fact that Xenon and Erwin aren't actively debating is actually a blessing. It gives them a bit of objectivity to be able to gently speak with a moderator when the moderator has lost some perspective. Erwin's daily presence here without posting a lot is a good thing. It means he's aware and yet not in the fray.

Amy

Those are very good points. There needs to be a voice of objectivity.

Believe it or not, I am almost 100% like that :)

Boy! You said a mouthful there! ;)