This is an excellent point and I think $250 for vB4 is quite a bargain. But it leaves people who already have vB4 in a tough position. You shouldn't have to pay 200 bucks to beta test software. Sure, you're entitled to updates down the line, but that's quite a leap of faith. You should only have to pay when they give you a version that ready to go live.

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That's news to me. Many on vBulletin.com claim that development on 4.x will continue.

I could not of said any better myself Infact I was typing something along the lines of this, but I deleted what I put from Fear from being banned from speaking my mind.
From a VB user from the VB 3 series upwards I'm finding that looking to improve my community with VB a no go atm.

No one HAS to pay at all. If they want VB5 beta they pay for it, if they don't, that's fine too.

I am in a bad spot as well, I just bought vb4 5 months ago and just now started getting it going after other things came first.

The only bright spot is this, we know how slow vBulletin is about making anything stable, even more so since they sold out. My hope is by the time vB 5 is actually viable (if ever) I will just toss up a donate thing on the site lol.

It is a shame though , vBulletin was so much easier when paid by the year. Now they act like we are getting this very great service by not paying per year but instead will toss out a new product more often then microsoft.

I simply meant that I do not believe there will be a 4.3, or larger, series. They will continue with the 4.2 series but that will be it.

Sure. :) That goes without saying, but perhaps you missed my point? Of course, no one HAS to buy anything. But if you want to test out this beta/unfinished product (to help plan for the future or whatever), currently you have to pay about 200 bucks. I don't think that's reasonable, or even good business. Just my opinion, of course.

Would make more sense to me if they gave you a limited test-only license for say a $50 deposit which could be credited towards a full version when it becomes available. Just a meet-us-part-way idea. They "clarified" the 30 days ticket support to something more reasonable, so you never know.

I'm a physics guy, and most of my coding has always been LabView or Matlab. I don't really know this HTML or CSS stuff. When I took over as technical admin of our site and went about upgrading to vB 4.2, I was amazed how much work was involved just to make the site look reasonable. All the little bugs and things broken that needed to be fixed. All the plug-ins needed to get some better functionality, etc. So I've spent a lot of time learning this stuff and making little tweaks etc to make things better. This community and the support of folks like BOP5 have been a great help.

With vB5 coming out, I have to decide if it's worth all my efforts continuing to tweak and improve a vB4 site. Perhaps I should stop till we go to vB5 since all my efforts will be undone by an upgrade. You can see how having some sense of what it's like to run my site on vB5 would be a great help in deciding where to focus my efforts.

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You shouldn't be afraid to express your opinion, just as long as you're basically on topic and not directly insulting anyone.

This whole vB5 fiasco, not even so much about how they released an unfinished product but mainly how existing customers are being treated, has really put a damper on my enthusiasm.

vB 5 is online software so I'm sure enforcing licenses is already a chore for the IB crew. What would prevent someone with one of these 'test-only' licenses you're talking about from putting it on a live site? And what would prevent them from using that 'test-only' license indefinitely?

vB 5 is new software, so they are offering a discount to vB 4 customers if they purchase vB 5 now. Granted vB 5 is still in Beta, but it is still new software. Personally I think the discount offer is a reasonable one.

Your vB 4 license is still accessible and downloadable. So, you're not losing anything if you don't purchase vB 5. If you DO purchase vB 5, you're also gaining another vB 4 full suite license (yes, that's a full suite license, not a forum license) at a huge discount from what vB 4 cost in the past. To me it's a win-win deal.

I don't see how my idea appreciably changes that. People buying vB5 new are really getting a useful vB4 license and some vB5 test software. If they ran both on lives sites they also would be violating the license agreement.

The fact that it's incomplete and that it's admitted to be not ready for a live site. That person is already running his/her site on a valid vB4 Suite license.

See above. Also that someone is interested in using stable up-to-date software. Hopefully after testing the Beta out, the customer sees the potential of vB5 and is eager for a more complete live-ready version, for which he'd obviously have to pay to download. Anyhow, what's the purpose of an indefinite test site and that isn't live?

Are you saying that the $40 discount is only for a limited time?

A point of disagreement. I think the discount is so small that it makes more sense as an existing customer to buy new and transfer your existing license. But are they not allowing that any more?

Only the planning type things I mentioned in previous posts, but alas not purchasing at this time may be the only sensible option left. When I'm ready to move on from vB4 I'll have to consider all my options. I'm really shocked how little incentive there is to stick with vB for existing customers.

What do you think that license is worth if it didn't include vB4 suite? Again, I think it's a great price for vB4. But I have no interest in running a second live site. Do you know if they're still allowing license transfers?

How do you mean you get another 4.x full suite license? But not if you upgrade from 4.x full suite license to 5.x you do not get another free one right? Only if you buy a new

seems like 4.2 is barely flushed out. needs more work for sure.

if support is dropped people will just pirate.