I just think the current "closed" approach is counter-productive.

BTW - when I said "easy to install" - I meant with little or no modifications to VB code, rather than automated updates.

Any extensive mods to VB code would put me and many others off such a portal - since updates to the portal or to VB would become burdensome and quite possibly seriously delayed (eg VB 2.1).

I much prefer the "Lite" concept - however I read that wajones is dropping this - why? For every one person prepared to hack - there are dozens who are not but would use an add-on that did not need it.

The current one-man approach concerns me, what if wajones just decides not to bother with supporting VB 2.1 or whatever - we can't have hundreds of sites affects by his personal views - it's got to become a proper "shared" product to be viable.

I hope he does make money from it - I would pay for it - but it needs a more open, friendly, community approach like that we see here from VB itself.

What I said was it was stable on my server, It might not be on yours given you have all ready had problems with 2.01.

Would you prefer something unfinished released to cause you even bigger problems?

But it can never be stable until tested by a wider audience on all the different servers out there.

This is catch-22. It needs a public beta.

One minute VBPortal Lite was available for testing, the next it's withdrawn because wajones decided to pull it!

What is going on here! Sites that used this would be very dependent on such a feature and need it to be produced and supported in a very professional way so that they can depend upon it as much as they do VB.

Ideally it would become part of VB like so many other hacks have been - but it seems this is a one-man thing here (I am not trying to offend - merely point out the limitations of such an approach).

just a little defensive.. but.. do you think there is only like 3 members that have access to it? ummm.. there is a lot more than that.. and yes they are being tested on a lot of different servers and everything...

I mean yah there might be a couple that are being missed.. but ... end result, it is going to be the way it is going to be.

I on the other hand, think quite differently. Let me explain why..

Go to the phpportals site. Click that search button. Search for the word.. startdate

Nice huh? You might find among that pile of the same question 2 FAQs which answer the question. Yet still it is asked over and over and over.

Relation to the topic? Right now the only people who have access to the 3.x version of vbPortal are those who have contributed to it's growth, and that is exactly the way it should be. The other most asked question over there is "When is 3 going to be out?" The answer? When it's ready.. Hell, thats in both those FAQs as well. But it would never be ready if people were installing the much more in-depth more option rich vbp3 BETA and asking the same questions 40-50 times in the forums which would keep wajones and the contributing members quite busy and leave little time for anything else (like development) As it stands now the only people asking for help with the product are those that have assisted in some way. Consider it Karma on a software scale.

This makes no sense to me. None.

You are already affected by his views when you install the product. It works the way he wrote it. You want it to support vB2.1? Great! SUPPORT THE PROJECT! I should hardly think hes going to say, hmm.. heres something I worked hard on, and is widely used, and people are actively supporting. Screw it, I'm done.

Actually, the group there has become a little more segmented over time. I've been around the site quite a while. I have noticed the changes a bit, and you're right that the community is getting less friendly. Mostly because it is now split into the group who have decided to take the step of contributing and those who "Will contribute when they see its worth it. Oh! and will you hurry up?"

It is in public beta sir. The public being those members who have contributed to its growth. I tell you what though. Don't tell wajones but I'll cut you a deal. You see if you can get microsoft to send me one of those developer CD's free of charge. I get a package from them, I'll cut you in with a donation. :p Maybe you can try telling them that "Closed" approach doesnt work. Whats the yearly fee for those now?

If wajones wants to stop supporting the entire project, he has the right to do so! Wajones is NOT a company and has no reason to help anyone if he does not choose to. He is NOT obligated to continue this project if he does not choose to. Following my point? He doesn't work for you...you don't pay him (donations are not considered selling a product). vBPortal is a hack, not a product! It's just a very extensive hack! If it is ever sold in the stores or online along with a company name attached to it then yeah, I would definetely expect some support! Otherwise, wait like everyone else and don't EXPECT support...

If the only thing they contribute were their questions, then I would hope that this would generate answers, and in doing so would give members the opportunity to assist others using the hack. In this small way each user is contributing at his/her knowledge level. If people don?t ask questions then what do you run a forum for, this is what my board is all about, members helping members. If you close the support forums how then do folks become a contributing member? Sorry guys but your all over the shop with this issue. Wake up and smell what your shovelling here.

I rest my case!

Well my comments are really praise, not criticism of the software.

I think it's great and should be released in a way that people can use easily and feel comfortable basing their site around.

I personally have never come accross a VB site using it. I believe if it were released in a "lite" (no hacking needed) format it would be used widely within days all over the world.

Surely the point of any clever programming is to be used, not admired for the sake of it by a few "contributing" members.

Some programmers want to spend time debugging - but the rest of us want something we can get (or buy) and get on with using it. That's why we bought VB rather than took PHPBB or the other GNU/GPL stuff.

VBportal should fit in with that model for the best results and uptake. Otherwise it will be just a curisoity and not the fabulous add-on that we need.

Maybe we should ask Jelsoft to develop a VB CMS portal - they would perhaps be more understanding - but it seems a shame to waste the work already done.

Version 2.1 IS available to the public to hack and enjoy! And it works great! I am not one of the contributing few yet over there at phpportals. I don't expect anything from them. I want a solid hack...not one piecemealed together like many hacks I've gotten from here! UBB may be slow, but the hacker community was excellent! I think vBulletin community is coming along, but IMO it's still lacking! And it's not used by as many people because of the MySQL and PHP requirements...for many that would mean switching to hosts that provide that stuff!

I understand what you're saying Pilot. But think of it this way: this is a hack, but it's not JUST a hack! Get my drift? The JUST hacks can be released little by little. The 'holy sh*t' hacks like vbp need to be given some time!

As AJR has said, 2.01 works great and is freely available to you. Why won't you use that? Oh yeah, too much customization, well then your going to have to wait.

I can only tell you the same things on both sites, YOU WILL HAVE TO WAIT!. It's not going to be released any sooner because you feel the need to hound us about it.

As you can tell, your starting to frustrate everyone with this subject. I "lurk" on the vbP site all the time and if I feel someone doesnt' come around demanding things, I help them. I've done more than my share of installs on peoples system for 2.01 and 3.0 and have never asked for a penny to do it.. Why? Because I want to help.

You, you seem to want to badger people and prod them till the agree with your point of view. It doesn't work like that.

WaJones has told you countless times that he is not interested at this time in making the mass amounts of money that you promise he will get if he releases this to the public. I'm glad he said that. Didn't deter you though, did it?

Well, if it was up to me, and I might have a little bit of say, I would not admit you to the Contributing Members forum. Why you ask? Well, I think you would give it out to everyone because you feel it should be that way anyway. Is there any recourse if you do? Probably not, so why take the chance?

Again, only my opinions, they reflect no one elses on the PhpPortlas.com site.

Josh