I've heard a lot of good about wordpress, just haven't had any incentive or need to switch as I can get around joomla really well. If Joomla stops working for me, it will be likely the first thing I try. :)

I'm curious on how the vBulletin made CMPS will look like.
Will it be free or a paid add-on?

There is a video of some of its features in development at vb.com on the developers blog.

Free? I doubt that LOL.

I use Joomla on many of the sites I have designed. We use it for our school disctrict. My largest complaint about it is in the ACL, there is just no way at this time to control permissions and create usergroups but that is supposed to change in 1.6, it better or else I will be looking for a new option. There is a steep learning curve on the admin side of things but once you get it down it's a piece of cake to do just about anything with it. I love it but as it is with anything, there are some areas that really need improvement. With jfusion really cranking along it is definitely gonna make it even more powerful!!

However, if you are just designing a simple content site it is a bit overkill. If you are looking to have a lot of features and addons then I would definitely check it out. I will never use it for just a simple website.

As far as it being organized, I think it is well organized as there are really three main parts to it, components, modules, and articles. Each section is easy to use and navigate but again, that is once you get down what each of those are and how to use it!!

How so? There's one "page.tpl.php" file and the rest is css. Of course if you're making a massive site, there's quite a bit more to it than just that.. but with core that's all there is.

I'll be the first to admit that the generated code by Drupals third party modules (especially the Views module) is a disaster though.. and you typically can't create a Drupal site (with a lot of modules) without having a huge mess of css. But I think compared to vB's style / template system, Drupal is 10 times less time consuming. Maybe not "easier" per-say, but that depends on your knowledge with php.

I'll agree with you on Wordpress though. Most of the sites that my job does for people can be done easily with WP.. Like 95% of them, anyways.

Well core has absolutely no functionality except for taxonomy, urls and basic content management. If you want custom content types with fields and different views, you need to install at least three plugins (CCK, Views, Panels) to get it to work right or write a lot of PHP code yourself. If you're going to re-write most of the content handling why use a CMS to start with. This doesn't even touch on elements needed if you want to have basic social networking components included on the site. That is probably another 5 or 6 plugins right there because the basic user profile is just that, basic.

Then you need to make sure that all modules and styles inherit the output properly, etc... This is probably why the commercial version of Drupal, Acquia includes 20 third-party modules to provide the basics people need. Probably also why CCK and Views will be absorbed into Drupal 7 as core components.

I guess if you're making a simple blog site with just one author and basic comments then you can simply edit page.tpl.php. Most sites that need a CMS are more complicated than that though. Of course in the long run it does mean that most Drupal sites are less cookie cutter than many Wordpress or even vBulletin sites. They do take a lot more investment to get working though.

Joomla is hacker bait. Installing that script is like posting a big sign that says "Please hack my site".

Some of the add-ons that you can download from the joomla site has been tagged as having known security flaws. But the joomla community still hands those files out like candy.

Awhile back the joomla developers did not want the script tied in with anything that cost money. SMF even dropped support for the joomla & smf bridge because of the stuff that the joomla devs were doing. I think this was about a year and a half ago. But the joomla community lost a lot of respect and support because of what they "thought" open source meant.

The joomla support forums are a joke. If you need help, instead of asking, get ready to beg for help.

The code is bloated and slow.

The list goes on and on.

I ran a joomla site for about 6 or 7 months. It was probably one of the worst experiences of my web site building career.

Agree with everything said, Joomlas interpretation of the GPL is incredibly self indulgent.

It's Joomla who dropped using SMF . Joomla always wanted to be open source based system, SMF is no more open source thats why they moved to Phpbb actually.

I did many joomla sites, Many clients are happy with Joomla . it's not actually that bad nor its slow actually depends on people, if one is in need of medium kind of site with some small traffic and community joomla is pretty good . but if you are targetting for making a big site why not invest money and hire a coder.

I have been on joomla from 4years now i never felt support forum so as u mentioned. I am now on my own for joomla modifications and all . Just takes a bit time but its worth running Joomla for small sites.