Jacquii,

You're a designer, I'm a coder, I will defer to you on whether the style changes in VB4 were the cause of stylers/designers giving up on VB4- but as a coder you should trust me when it comes to the stability of the code. In all my coding experiences only 3 things ever changed on VB4 that warranted changes in mods over its entire history

1) Very early on the way to code a custom tab for user profile pages changed.

2) The editor upgrade of course brought changes to anything relying on the old editor

3) Over time some "bit" templates were placed with <vb:foreach> template calls to simplify and optimize code.

I'd say I spent less than 5% of all my development time on having to update VB4 mods for new updates of VB4- and I'm sure that is as much as or even less than would be necessary for an XF coder.

I would agree with BOP5.

vB4 is very stable. I can't recall the last time I had to update an add-on because of a vB4 core code change. I THINK it was from 4.0 to 4.1, but I could be wrong.

Title: Does xenForo get communities?

http://admin-talk.com/threads/does-x...unities.50935/

Where you will find the quality tone of a real discussion.

To be fair, that thread is not about vBulletin. The community view of vBulletin is in far worse shape. (IMO, anyway)

On the development/ownership side, who still works at vBulletin that I've developed any relationship with? I can't think of anyone. It's just a corporate image now, with some poor support staff fronting all of the heat.

Most important thing for me is whether the software I am using actually works, whether that be vB, xF, IPB or whatever. I don't really care about the community side of development forums - I've never posted on vB.com, only posted twice on xF.com (about a modification by nhawk incidentally :)) and never posted on IPB.com and I've been around for 11 years or so in total.

I'd rather have decent software, with as little or no bugs as possible than have developers getting involved in the community side of things - xenforo might not be a great community, but then again, I don't particularly think vBulletin has been great with it's customers lately either...swings and roundabouts really IMO

I was pointing 2 things by sharing that link :

1. The way discussion is carried over there in a more mature tone without insults on Admin-talk.

2. That the XF community, particularly the staff isn't that great and friendly like many thought. Sugar coating your language is mainly what i found many use there when it comes to XF. All it took is to criticize them to see what will happen.

Actually, #2 is important because i for one, I am always looking for a friendly company which knows how to properly communicate - of course next to a quality product. That is very important actually in any business. There is a reason why Amazon is very successful - customer sanctification is their No 1 priority; they won't spend 5 min arguing with you over a refund, they will process it right away. Then you wonder why Target, Best Buy, K-mart and many others complaint about their sales.

I don't think anyone would like to invest and buy a product to later find that he or she is being jerked by few of the company's staff.

In term of functionality, Vb 4.x is the best out there i believe out of all the forum software. What i personally can do on VB, i couldn't on XF.

I definitely agree with you. It seems to me that if you need some attention over there you must be a groupie or an arse kisser

Very true.

I felt that way when I bought into the vB4 pre-sale only to find that it was a complete mess which, in my opinion, took a very long time to rectify. If you look at it that way, customer service from both companies is somewhat lacking..

As I said before, both softwares and the companies as a whole have their good and bad points - you could pick through the holes on each one and justify your case if you are that way inclined....it is plainly obvious to me that there are people of both sites that do that.

To be honest Katie dear - This entire post is a clear example of why the word 4-letter-Cword-that-women-hate-to-be-called was invented. And dear - while I may be ignorant of a lot of things, I am anything but stupid.

What you need to do is

1. Get over yourself. You obviously have an old bagful of issues.
2. Instead of attacking me with your ridiculous nonsensical insults - come with relevant conversation as I have done.

And YES! You believe yourself to have been a victim of XF bullying or some such. The fact is that you are out of control, a trouble making instigator who obviously has nothing positive to bring to the XF forums. You are in moderation queue for being a complete, total ass. You in your previous posts have more than insinuated that XF is devious for having placed you in moderation queue and an assortment of other things, including how Kier and company are devious for continuing with their career.

Therefore - This statement IS TOTALLY RELEVANT to the conversation at hand.

You want to come here - posting your ridiculous screencaps - playing the victim. You're not the victim. You're an idiot! An idiot who likes to sling insults. And truly Katie - If you mattered - I might actually care about your insults. The fact of the matter is that you are as irrelevant to me as a turd in a pigfarm while I live in the city.

J.

Also - I don't know who the hell you think you are - but you do not dictate what I say and who I can say it to.
You're ridiculous and I will state this fact in without hesitation whenever I see fit.

Thanks!

--------------- Added [DATE]1394486220[/DATE] at [TIME]1394486220[/TIME] ---------------

I was told that something similar happened with vB 4. An past associate of mine who had shared free modifications here at one point said that with each 4.x update - he'd need to make changes to his modification base. This was during the time or 4.0 - 4.1 ... Perhaps all that changed as the 4.x code matured? Perhaps I was told incorrectly? IDK.

Maybe as someone not too familiar with code - I've overstated my assumption that coders left by the droves for whatever reason. Perhaps 'unstable' and 'bug-ridden' are not synonyms then. We can now say that vB 4 is a bug-ridden, stable code. This always seemed a contradiction imo. Anyway - I'll defer to you coders and thanks for your clarification.

As someone who's dibbled in vBulletin design though - My time with upgrading between vB 3.x versions had NEVER been met with the myriad of challenges I've seen with upgrading between vB 4.x versions. Seems like every version upgrade the style would require major changes to the style.

Super-frustrating to say the least.

And some dimwitted idiots going all out to defend the Titanic which now (with vB 5 Connect) has a gaping hole in its hull.

J.

--------------- Added [DATE]1394486858[/DATE] at [TIME]1394486858[/TIME] ---------------

That's just it. As someone sorely disappointed with vB 4 -- I had high hopes that Internet Brands would give us a wonderful product in vBulletin 5 Connect.

It. Just. Did. Not. Happen.

Instead - Internet Brands has seemingly put on their noise reduction headphones - so that they can ignore the angry voices of license holders like myself who also had high hopes of INVESTING (via purchased license of course) in what is supposed to be the next evolution of the world's leading community software.

This from a chick whose personal attack/insult towards me ascended from the depths of an unholy hot hell only to take shape in the form of, "by the way - your graphics suck. Go to school...or rather - go to DeviantArt... Blablabla...." This from a chick who has called folks in this thread mad, stupid, idiot, vBbashers, time-wasters while insinuating they are nonsensical drama queens --- and only because they've voiced their frustration about the current state of vBulletin. This from a chick who has posted several screencaps from XF -- calling them opportunists, hypocrits, bullies, liars while swearing up and down that they are talentless thieves of the Xend framework.

Hypocrisy much?

Thanks for the spray. I assume it would be poison...coming from you anyway.
I -- in the spirit of education of course -- now award you with:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/29.jpg

Next time - instead of insulting me - post something relevant. Perhaps respond to this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or this:

Or even this:

...instead of acting like a fool.
I've responded to your ridiculous assertions. And you have the audacity to post, "The way discussion is carried over there in a more mature tone without insults..." Yeah - perhaps address the relevant comments I've made - instead of being a strange old bird:

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/external/2014/03/30.jpg