OK, I'll put that aside and change the subject.

Let's discuss Google indexing and translateflags.php.

If we assume that Google has limited resources to index a site, and that GoogleBot does not distinguish between the various language flags, then this seems to imply that it will be more efficient, and generate more search traffic, in the beginning of the translation process, to only expose the top ten or so Internet-language flags.

The reason for this is that if Google indexes all translation languages equally, Google will index languages with very small Internet-populations with the same priority of languages with high Internet populations.

So, unless I am wrong, which I could be :) it seems to indicate that to optimize search referral results, in the first month or two, a site should expose only the top 10 or so flags (from an Internet-usage perspective) and not expose the minor languages.

Is this how you see things as well?

This script is only limited by what Google Translation offers. At this point it is 28 languages. As for "Brazilian", I am not sure what part of Brazil speaks Brazilian, but in most of Brazil they speak Portuguese, which Google translation already offers....:)

Indeed, how well a site converts has more to do with the site than the traffic source imo.

Either way the traffic is organic, which is arguably the best source you can get.

What he said. :up:

If you want to throttle the release of the new translated pages then do it, personally i have added the lot and just let google decide what it likes and what it doesnt like.

The database can only be so fast, the work has to be done behind the scenes so the translated pages will never match the non translated pages.

That said my site is not noticeable, I also checked your site and the speed was pretty identical for both types of pages.

Are you sure your not comparing a page never cached to one that is cached vs a normal page?

Are their plans to update this mod when vb4 is out if it is needed :D

As long as vB 4 has a plugin system it should work without any changes. But yeah, if it needs changing it will be, I use it and plan to upgrade to vb 4 on release day as i have been waiting for the CMS part for yonks.

Dave,

Is there any way to add the option to make the translation "sticky"? I mean so that once a user chooses to translate a page, all other pages (either per session or permanently) are translated?

I would like the option of having members who always see the forum in their native language.

Thanks again for this amazing mod....I'm loving it.

Not currently, no.

done as funeral now when I click on the flags to me that this

https://vborg.vbsupport.ru/showpost....&postcount=294

Alter table wt_cache_short collate utf8_bin; ALTER TABLE wt_cache_short CHANGE tl tl VARCHAR( 10 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; ALTER TABLE wt_cache_short CHANGE originaltext originaltext VARCHAR( 50 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; ALTER TABLE wt_cache_short CHANGE translated translated VARCHAR( 255 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; Alter table wt_cache_medium collate utf8_bin; ALTER TABLE wt_cache_medium CHANGE tl tl VARCHAR( 10 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; ALTER TABLE wt_cache_medium CHANGE originaltext originaltext VARCHAR( 255 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; ALTER TABLE wt_cache_medium CHANGE translated translated VARCHAR( 1000 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; Alter table wt_cache collate utf8_bin; ALTER TABLE wt_cache CHANGE tl tl VARCHAR( 10 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; ALTER TABLE wt_cache CHANGE translated translated TEXT CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; ALTER TABLE wt_cache CHANGE translated translated VARCHAR( 65000 ) CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_bin NULL DEFAULT NULL; CREATE TABLE saver ( id INT, tl VARCHAR(10), originaltext VARCHAR(65000) ) ENGINE = MYISAM, CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_general_ci; CREATE TABLE cleaner ( id INT ) ENGINE = MYISAM, CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_general_ci; delete from cleaner; delete from saver; insert into saver (SELECT min(id) as id, tl, originaltext from wt_cache group by originaltext,tl having count(*) > 1); insert into cleaner (SELECT cache.id from saver, wt_cache cache where saver.originaltext=cache.originaltext and saver.tl=cache.tl and saver.id<>cache.id); DELETE FROM wt_cache USING wt_cache INNER JOIN cleaner ON wt_cache.id = cleaner.id; delete from cleaner; delete from saver; insert into saver (SELECT min(id) as id, tl, originaltext from wt_cache_short group by originaltext,tl having count(*) > 1); insert into cleaner (SELECT cache.id from saver, wt_cache_short cache where saver.originaltext=cache.originaltext and saver.tl=cache.tl and saver.id<>cache.id); DELETE FROM wt_cache_short USING wt_cache_short INNER JOIN cleaner ON wt_cache_short.id = cleaner.id; delete from cleaner; delete from saver; insert into saver (SELECT min(id) as id, tl, originaltext from wt_cache_medium group by originaltext,tl having count(*) > 1); insert into cleaner (SELECT cache.id from saver, wt_cache_medium cache where saver.originaltext=cache.originaltext and saver.tl=cache.tl and saver.id<>cache.id); DELETE FROM wt_cache_medium USING wt_cache_medium INNER JOIN cleaner ON wt_cache_medium.id = cleaner.id; OPTIMIZE TABLE wt_cache, wt_cache_medium, wt_cache_short; alter table wt_cache_short drop index originaltext; create UNIQUE INDEX originaltext on wt_cache_short (originaltext, tl); alter table wt_cache_medium drop index originaltext; create UNIQUE INDEX originaltext on wt_cache_medium (originaltext, tl);



What should I do thanks

good job at all

Yes, I am sure I am comparing cached pages, because I know how this product works (except for the developer details of the database cache design), and of course I know the difference of discussing performance of a page that is in database v. one that has not yet been translated.

I don't wish to get on your bad side, so I'll not comment further :D

Recently I worked directly with Amazon AWS on a CloudFront/S3 performance issue regarding "before" and "after" results for a website moving to Amazon AWS. We published the results.

In addition, I have a lot of experience tuning MySQL for our site, and can see numerous issues in the database performance before and after mods are installed. For example, a mod that uses blobs in the MySQL db table cannot be tmp cached to memory and must be tmp cached to disk, lowering performance .... etc etc.

As I mentioned, I want to stay on your good side, so I'll not comment further :D

I certainly wasnt trying to insult you, many do not understand how it works.

If you have any code suggestions I'd be happy to test them out. Thanks.

One of the things I noticed was that this mod uses blobs in the dB. After installing, my MySQL tuning scripts starting complaining that a high percentage of temporary tables were being written to disk v. memory. I doubled the size of both the heap and tmp table cache and it did not help giving the message (attached in the screen shot).

Note: I just rebooted MySQL, so the number of temp tables written to disk increases the longer this mod runs.

Cheers.

@NLP-er - What's your opinion on this?

@silkroad - He's the database guy ;P

On a related note, I ran a number of comparisons similar to below(directly on the server where the db is located):

(after the initlal translation of course)

My early results show that the translated files take about 40 - 50% more time to load than the untranslated files, FYI.

On average we would see around 170ms for a typical "before" time and around 240 ms for a typical "after" time.

(and the file size change did not account for the difference).

Just FYI.

PS: I have not drawn any conclusions, I just was commenting that I have noticed some differences in performance (before/after), so please don't be unhappy with me. Thanks. :o

The thing is, this stuff cost money to develop and I dont see a few milliseconds as good value for money. What I'm saying is if you want to try to further the DB development then be my guest, but I am happy with it's current state and wont be myself.

Not being funny just being straight with you, I'm not a DB coder so can't comment in depth or do this myself.

Hi Dave!

I agree, the most important performance stat, of course, is the increase of search engine referral traffic over time. We are completely "wired" to record any changes, so I am looking forward to reporting the results with some nice graphs :-)

I don't know google spiders algorithms, but if you will not expose some languages google definitively will not visit it ;)

Google offers over 40 languages :) I use them all :p

I don't understand what you are asking about... :confused:

That's why I splitted cache to 3 tables :)

It does use blobs and it have to :) Any other solution for storing really long strings?...

My opinion is - silkroad is telling us what we use - I made it so I know what we use :D
Let him try to find out better solution if he thinks that it's possible :)

@silkroad - do you have any suggestions for better solution or just like to talk?... :)

As I already wrote - translated page will always generate slower, because first normal page is generated and then it is translated. So to normal time you have to add translation time which is greater than 0 - even if cached (time of taking translation from cache is also greater than 0) :) I'm suprised that you expected somesthing else :)

Thanks for your note - we are aware of this :)

Also note that mod don't affect time of normal page generation, because it does nothing then :)

There appears to me the pictures .. It is as if the variable $translateflags was not working.

I changed the following sentences, but not resolved:

Hook Location: global_complete, changed to:
require_once ( "forum/translate.php");

Hook Location: global_start, changed to:
include ( 'forum/translateflags.php');

If I am at my site:

www.example.com/forum/translateflags.php images appear correctly.

What can be? Why is not the images in my forum?

PSA.: It is the path of the images, as you can see I already checked. This seems more a problem of the call variable.

PSB.: I came in contact with my host and the role of CURL is enabled.

As per the install instructions you do not have forums in the path despite uploading the files there.

Hook Location: global_complete, changed to:
require_once ( "translate.php");

Hook Location: global_start, changed to:
include ( 'translateflags.php');

Even so, did this change because the first failed.

What can I do?

Yes, agreed. That is what you say in this thread, and that is what we observe, but that is not what is said in the description of the mod ;) ;)

(wink, wink)

Where in the mod description does it say translated pages are identical speed to normal pages. :confused:

After running this great mod for around 4-5 days, I can advise that, for big boards with hundreds of thousands of posts, this mod will use a lot of disk space. Please keep in mind, there is a huge difference in translating 400K pages compared to 20K as far as storage requirements.

We have nearly 400K pages indexed by Google, and based on the current G index of newly translated pages compared to the size of the database, we will would use over 1 TB of disk space to store translations for all 28 flags in the database.

We don't have 1 TB of storage available for translations at this time ;) , so until we have a new storage configuration that can store over a TB of data, we will only expose the Top 10 Internet-population languages.

We will monitor this for another week, and if the database continues to grow, we will have to cut back to the Top 5 because we can't allocate 100s of GB to translations. We did not size our server that large :D . FWIW: I am thinking to move the translation dB to Amazon EC2 and redirect translated pages to EC2 in the future.

It would be great to hear from others running this mod for many months to post how many posts and threads they have in vB, the number of translated links indexed by Google, and the size of their translated dB. Please post, thanks!

Thanks again for a great mod.

Also, I look forward to report back on search engine referral traffic increases in the coming months :D

Right here ;)

Quote:

Over time, users and bots will cache your entire site automatically and all translated pages will load the same as normal pages.

For me, and I am sure others, "load the same"... means "load the same"...... :D

Right, because 500,000 x28 = 14 million pages.

If you added 14 million normal pages you'd need a similar amount of space...

The difference is milliseconds, hardly a big deal. Jeez.

Hi Dave,

I don't understand you and why you get defensive.

First of all, I mentioned before that I did not want to post and get on your bad side, because I have read your defensive replies before, and I like you.

Then, you invited me to post performance topics.

Then, I post facts, which are important to me, a person who have a fairly large board, and you then get defensive again.

Milliseconds matter to many people (. Just because they don't matter to you is no reason to be defensive with me. I am not your enemy. In fact, it works out that the translated pages take about 40 to 50% longer to load in our server. No big deal, but it is certainly not "the same". 40 to 50% longer to load is not "the same"... why not be technically accurate?

I suggest you reword you mod description to say something like:

Or better yet (more accurate, IMHO):

Also, what is the point of trying to help (and improve the mod) you if you are going to be defensive about things which do not matter to you, but might be important to others? I like this mod and just happen to think performance details are important to people with large boards.

Advice: Don't beat up on your friends!

PS: If you are going to beat up on me when I post some performance stats, I better not post anymore stats! I am not posting performance stats for my benefit. I was posting for the benefit of users and to "give back" to you for such a great mod. Why beat me up over it? I think I will not post anymore stats, it is better, since you are so sensitive about it!!

How is that helping, being pedantic over the wording of the install instructions? I said i cannot change a thing, i'm not a db coder and I dont have the time and money to invest right now for marginal differences if at all. I then said if you wanted to suggest actual code changes i would be happy test them. I'm not being defensive or whatever, but just like if you released a mod you would tire of the negativity at some point. Not one person has posted index stats, referral stats, it's all doom and gloom. As I said before if you want to change it, then be my guest, but all this talk is not improving a thing imo without actually editing it and testing it. Also i am not trying to offend you, please take my posts in a non offensive way if that's how you are interpreting them. Thanks.

Posting performance details are not negative Dave. You are the person taking it that way because you are so sensitive.

Like I said before, I am not going to post anymore performance stats, because it upsets you so much to learn how your mod performs. I don't want to get on your bad side.

NO MORE STATS... Happy now??

After thinking about this a bit more, I want close on this:

(1) Before we can recommend code changes, database modifications, etc. we should have good performance statistics. For this reason, I think recommendations based on solid statistics are more important than recommendations based on opinions. (It is kinda like having a doctor write a prescription without examining the patient first...) On our site, we run over 350 MySQL stats and tune the dB based on analysis of charts, graphs, etc. over hours, days, weeks, months and more. We look a spider hits per minute, server load, table opens, cache, memory, network load, many more than 600 individual statistics. We look at Apache workers, MySQL threads... I think we look at nearly 600 stats, but normally we can get a good idea at what is going on by a review of about 8 to 10 charts in a dashboard.

(2) This mod is resource intensive for big boards. Saying this is not "doom and gloom" (as someone has complained), it is a fact. When a process is resource intensive, we should understand it, especially people who have big boards, and its impact. We should know the impact so we can plan, provision, size, adjust, etc. Just the GoogleBot load alone increases our load average and network utlization considerably. We need to know what that is because "knowledge is important", not because we are being "negative". It is not "doom and gloom" to say this - this is called "performance facts for planning."

(3) For some odd reason, emotions run high in this mod about performance statistics; so we will not publish them here any more, but will publish them on another site (because we need stats - it is called "situational knowledge"). We were publishing these stats to help people using this mod, but instead, we have been met with an unapologetic "why are you doing this?" and "jeezz, why do you care about this or that." Why should we publish statistics if statistics lead to emotional replies? Emotions are not interesting, Performance is. I am a Vulcan, not a Klingon :-)

(4) If anyone wants access to our statistics, please send me a PM. I'll provide you the link to a private forum where we can publish and discuss performance issues openly and technically, without stimulating unapologetic emotional replies and question on our motives. I have no interest in emotions when it comes to web server performance. "Just the facts, Maam", as they say.

(5) I want to close by thanking Dave for this great mod. We use it. We like it. We are tracking it's performance. In accordance with Dave's wishes, since it is his mod, we will refrain from posting any more performance related stats, graphs, etc. here. I can't deal with the emotions that stats seem to invoke anyway. It is against my Vulcan nature :-)

Keep up the great work! I cannot make code recommendations for improving performance without solid statistics :-) Sorry!

Hey Guys!

(No stats, I promise!)

Hope all is well.

Question: Does your mod parse the "notranslate" tag and pass it to Google when it does the translation?

Google says to use this tag when you don't want something translated.

I wrapped it around $code in the bbcode_code template, but it did not seem to work.

Cheers.